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The "Wasted Mystique" -- still around?

 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
14:09 / 12.09.07
Petey Shaftoe, in another thread, on the treatment of Britney Spears following an apparently not-so-wonderful performance at an awards ceremony:

she seemed out of it on booze or drugs, that her performance was shambolic, that she didn't sing the right words to her song, and that the performance was too overtly sexualised. All things for which a male rock'n'roll star would be not only forgiven, but even lauded.

Now, I don't follow the music press that closely (esp. not the British music press), but I honestly can't recall any recent "lauding" of a male performer for being out of it on stage or screwing up lyrics. "Overly sexualized" is a bit hard to map. If I had to think of one current performer building mystique off being a substance-impaired mess on stage, Amy Winehouse is the only name to leap to mind.

Ten years ago, Oasis and Shane MacGowan spring to mind as famous "bad boys" in public performance. Now, though -- is it still cool? I honestly can't think of the last time I heard accolades being thrown at a performer for being fucked up on stage to performance-impairing levels. At $60+ a head for a concert ticket these days, I can't imagine the general public standing for it, either.

Off-stage, I know Pete Doherty is a famous throwback to the drugs-and-rock lifestyle, but after him, I get a bit stuck again.

So question 1: Is being the old-school drugged-out "rock n' roller" still cool? Or is it now a legacy thing, a relic of the past like the days when DJs chose their own records and wrote their own scripts?

And jumping back to Britney, and Winehouse for question 2: is it not a gender question but a genre question? Do we expect different things of our teenybopper pop stars and our sultry soul singers?
 
 
grant
14:58 / 12.09.07
Well, with Britney, there's also a kind of narrative arc going on here.

I mean, she used to be a Mouseketeer....

The only other celeb who ran the same arc that comes to mind right away is Drew Barrymore - from E.T. to Wild Child! - although there's also something in common with, like, Todd Bridges getting arrested. Innocence ruined.
 
 
johnny enigma
16:14 / 14.09.07
I think there probably are people about that still think that sort of thing is cool, but "wasted mystique" doesn't seem to be particularly fashionable at the moment. What really seems to pay off is being a rapid careerist which is kind of boring.I like my geniuses to be a bit mad and unpredictable which usually entails being quite wasted for a large chunk of the time.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:27 / 14.09.07
This gives me a chance to post my favourite rock and roll drugs anecdote, which is strangely relevant to the topic at hand.

From an interview with the Godlike (and supremely messed-up) Peter Perrett:

More recently, there was a collaboration with Pete Doherty that seems to have ended badly. Mention of his name sets Perrett off on a heartfelt rant about declining standards of morality among drug addicts. "Junkies nowadays are really disgusting," he huffs, genuinely outraged. "In my day, being a drug dealer was a respectable fuckin' profession. Nowadays, it's something you really feel ashamed to be associated with, the way most junkies behave."
 
 
Alex's Grandma
19:03 / 14.09.07
Off-stage, I know Pete Doherty is a famous throwback to the drugs-and-rock lifestyle, but after him, I get a bit stuck again.

In Britain anyway, which seems traditionally a bit more tolerant of the drugs mess rocker archetype than say the States is, I think Pete Doherty's antics might go some way to explaining why this sort of thing is out of fashion at the moment. As a tabloid star he's infinitely preferable to the cast of Big Brother, etc, but there is something of the comedy turn about him (the 'kitten on crack' story was straight out of Brass Eye for example, as was his recent ban from London) which coupled with his ongoing battle with UK justice system (and surely the only thing that's keeping him out of prison is a feeling in the courts that he's not really serious about any of this, and that everyone concerned's involved in some kind of light-hearted caper movie) must make him seem a bit off-putting as a role model for younger musicians.

Plus, being arrested that often is bound to get you down; perhaps today's artists are being more subtle?

On the other hand though, the likes of Bez, Julian Cope and Keith Richards are national treasures these days, so who knows?
 
 
grant
20:01 / 14.09.07
Has Keith Richards ever messed up on stage? I honestly don't know. I remember reading some unkind things when Sinatra started forgetting lyrics in mid-song (though milder than the Spears stuff because, after all, he was in his 70s).
 
 
Blake Head
21:05 / 14.09.07
According to the Stones bio Old Gods Almost Dead: unequivocally yes.
 
 
Mistoffelees
07:13 / 15.09.07
That "Wasted Mystique" only seems to work if the druggy artist has actually put out quality work and died (Monroe, Cobain, Presley, Morrison, Joplin, Hendrix, etc.). I´ve never heard anything from Spears, that I liked (admittedly, I´ve only heard two tracks, that infamous 'hit me', and toxic in an episode of Doctor Who). And before Winehouse hit the press because of her problems (all of a sudden she´s on the cover of the german Rolling Stone), I had also never heard of her (but that may be, because I don´t listen to the radio. I´ve also never heard a single track of Beyonce, Limp Bizkit, Jay-Z or what else is on the air these days). So even if they should die soon, they will not enter that part of pop culture Walhalla.

I just don’t see the coolness in an artist getting addicted. I remember when I read about an incident at a rehearsal of the Stones, where Charlie Watts was on heroin and he fell to the ground and they had to help him to get up. That was just sad. I’ve heard some really nice tracks of Babyshambles/The Libertines and wish Doherty could get his act together. So he can put out some more music instead of screaming "I love you, Kate" while squirming in his pee in front of half a dozen reporters.

Maybe Im lucky, that most members of my favourite bands never had drug problems that kept them from releasing new records that are worth listening to (Im selfish that way). I remember one time though, when I heard on the radio that the scheduled Placebo concert I had a ticket for was off. And in the days to follow, it was on the news they didn’t want to do it, because they were too hungover. That’s unprofessional; like my colleague used to say "if you can drink, you can work".

All that attention that Hilton, Lohan etc get might be a mix of people being gleeful about people who have it all ruining it for themselves and the buzz people can get when they see a car accident and are glad it’s someone else instead of them. So those people might be the vent for some built up societal pressure as in "I’ll never be young, rich and famous but at least noone is taking a picture of my privates while I’m trying to score.".
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
09:24 / 15.09.07
I don't really know where I stand on it as regards today's music, but I did feel strangely disappointed once while watching Spiritualized to realise that what Jason Pierce was drinking was not, in fact, beer, but a nice cup of tea.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
09:34 / 15.09.07
There's a study here called Elvis to Eminem- Quantifying the price of fame through early mortality of European and North American Pop and Rock stars which concludes that rock and pop stars have a significantly higher mortality rate than the regular population.

I think part of the Wasted Mystique (in any form of art, not just music) is how gosh-darn democratic it is. When we see a great artist (or Pete Doherty) who uses drugs we imagine a casual relationship between the two- that their genius somehow stems from their drug use. This isn't a new idea- think of the Romantic poets or even Shamans in many cultures. It'd be nice if we could be geniuses too for the price of doing something a lot of people do recreationally anyway, so we buy into this myth. It's a lot easier than accepting that musical geniuses (and Pete Doherty) are rare and get where they are through a combination of hard work, genuine talent and luck (except Pete Doherty).
 
 
M.a.P
09:43 / 15.09.07
Well,
I guess I don't really know neither:
Take the examples of Nick Cave and Sonic Youth,
they make beautiful music, are/were heavily under the influence but never bragged about it Doherty-style.
I remember being kind of shocked when a friend of mine who was working at my city's biggest venue, told me Sonic Youth were totally out of it right before their gig (Washing Machine tour). But then again, the show was brilliant.
I guess the eighties were a radical turnpoint, a shift from drugs as a source of creativity to assumed tools of "romantic" self-destruction...I dunno...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:37 / 15.09.07
Phex- I read all the stuff about that report in the papers. It seemed interesting, but I thought the majority of the press kind of fucked up by giving examples of rock stars who'd died young which included people like Buddy Holly. And ANYONE has the same chance of dying in a plane crash, surely? Don't imagine they used him in the actual study, though.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
11:53 / 17.09.07
Isn't the "wasted" thing of the same order of the star being "sexier" than average - they're more sexy, take more drugs, wear better clothes, and so on and so forth. Which part of that people focus on might fluctuate from point to point but it's all about someone being more extreme generally as far as I can see, right back to Shakespeare plays and art generally. Gods and Heroes, that sort of thing.
 
  
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