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Sountrack to 911?

 
 
garyancheta
11:15 / 11.09.07
I'm compiling a set this weekend for a DJ gig this weekend. I want to do a moment of silence and a couple of songs specifically about 9-11. So far, I have:

Willie Nile's "Cell Phones Ringing in the Pockets of the Dead"
Bruce Springsteen "The Fire"
Loudon Wainright's "No Sure Way"

What music would you recommend?

- G
 
 
Haus Of Pain
11:46 / 11.09.07
WAR - EDWIN STAR

IT SHOULD'VE BEEN ME - RAY CHARLES

BORN IN THE USA - BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN

Or something equally tacky maybe?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:58 / 11.09.07
"NYC's like a graveyard" by the Moldy Peaches? In what degree of poor taste do you want this?
 
 
Haus Of Pain
14:53 / 11.09.07
Phil Collins beat you to it I fear, with classic 9/11 hits such as:

In The Air Tonight

Thru’ These Walls

I Wish It Would Rain Down

Hang In Long Enough

Both Sides Of The Story

I Don't Care Anymore

the ol' tear jerker:

Something Happened On The Way To Heaven
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:02 / 11.09.07
Stairway to Heaven, it's like a reference to the fact everyone couldn't get down the stairs in time so they have to like, climb up to heaven instead man.
 
 
grant
15:16 / 11.09.07
"Might makes right" by Camper Van Beethoven.
 
 
misterdomino.org
16:27 / 11.09.07
Aha, good call, Grant! And certainly not that ol' diddly "let the bodies hit the floor" which was rumored to have prophecised the attacks or something to that effect.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
17:28 / 11.09.07
911 Is A Joke - Public Enemy
W.O.G.S - AR Kane
The Fudgepunch - Wiseblood
So Macho - Sinita
Laughingstock - American Music Club
 
 
EvskiG
18:58 / 11.09.07
The Sex Pistols, Holidays in the Sun -- a "cheap holiday in other people's misery."

That's your point, isn't it?
 
 
GogMickGog
19:42 / 11.09.07
If Ur-tasteless is where you're at, might I suggest:

It's raining men

Anyone? Anyone?
 
 
Mistoffelees
20:33 / 11.09.07
If you want to take the chance of making some people get misty eyed, you could play Cloud Cult´s Dance For The Dead. A very beautiful song, slow and with under four minutes short enough for a club. Maybe play it after a fast track, so people can catch a breather.

This is the dance
That brings the dead to the living
Just say "I miss you
Every day you know"

This is the dance
That brings the dead to the living
They say "I'm with you
Every day you know"
 
 
Tsuga
21:05 / 11.09.07
Somehow STSDN!'s post was taken and run with. Why, I don't know, garyancheta didn't ask for tasteless.
Sorry I can't think of any songs.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:47 / 11.09.07
Well, the thought of a 9/11 DJ mix is in questionable taste to start with, but some of the responses have been in further questionable taste, certainly.

Too soon?
 
 
Tsuga
00:18 / 12.09.07
Never too soon for me, personally. Someone seemed to have expressed distress, but I think I just imagined it.
 
 
grant
03:10 / 12.09.07
Someone seemed to have expressed distress, but I think I just imagined it.

Someone did, but thought better of even touching this thread with a 10-foot pole. A better person than I, on that score.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:36 / 12.09.07
I'm assuming Tsuga is making a satirical point about lack of empathy - other people's feelings don't exist, etc. But it's hard to say.

Okay, a few points. garyancheta's first post seems to me to have benign if arguably misguided intentions. Moment of silence, songs that I'm not familiar with but appear not to be selected purely on the basis of yuck yuck yucks.

On the other hand, the suit "SHUT THIS SITE DOWN NOW!" is a troll, and has been for some years now, as his last few usernames betray(he was previously "ONLY 25 PEOPLE USE THIS SITE", as I recall). Some may remember him going by the name Mummy's Pork Sword. Hilarious guy, really, roffles all round. His tiresome Vice-magazine prankster antics have set the tone in this thread, it seems.

I'm not sure it could have gone any other way, though. I don't think it was a good idea for garyancheta to not explicitly state that he was not looking for roffles and shit when starting this thread, and threads in the Music forum tend to go better if people explain why they like songs or why they are appropriate to a situation, rather than just listing them.

I think there's also a discussion that could be had about the appropriateness of trying to incorporate some kind of - I assume some kind of memorial to those who died in or experienced or lost loved ones? - into a DJ set*. We could have that discussion here, maybe, if people start acting right.

If people continue just listing loltastic bad taste song titles, however, I'm going to move to have this locked.

*That's even before one gets into a debate about 9/11 as actual event versus what is being represented when it is memorialised.
 
 
Tsuga
09:24 / 12.09.07
I think the context of my post was lost by a deleted post before mine, where someone did express some disapproval of the track of discussion. I was being lamely droll by saying I imagined it, but I don't think that I would make such an oblique satirical point about empathy.
As to the merits or appropriateness of DJing some kind of boom-chicky memorial, I suppose it depends on who is there and how they felt about it. [self-redacted text]
So I started making kind of mean jokes, which I don't feel too good about posting because some people will be sensitive and I don't necessarily want to disrespect that. I originally posted because if someone wants to have a discussion of possible songs for this...plan, then there's no need to fuck with them (though, yes, the thread could have been started better).
 
 
Tryphena Absent
09:25 / 12.09.07
While garyancheta may not have intended this thread to be misguided I think you have to accept as a moderator that there is very little explanation in the first post about why this would be a positive thing and that the first song he lists is entitled "Cell Phones Ringing in the Pockets of the Dead". If anything the responses have been absolutely in keeping with the first post so who or what would you be locking for rather than your own personal distaste?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:30 / 12.09.07
Well, the Barbelith poster who lost an immediate family member in the WTC attacks, perhaps, although I have no idea whether they still read this place.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
09:50 / 12.09.07
In that case rather than asking everyone to react differently you could pm garyancheta and ask for an explanation of motivation in the thread, that's more likely to tackle the problem and make this into a lasting rather than temporary music discusion.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:57 / 12.09.07
I have no problem with list threads being locked, regardless of questions of taste, in the Music forum, on the grounds that they contribute nothing of interest. This has been discussed before, the problem of list threads is well known, and this seems a better argument for locking the thread than sensibility.

I will seek to contribute a further and more detailed response on the use of music as a way to respond to traumatic events in general and 9/11 in particular in the near future. I hope others will direct their energies to doing likewise. If the quality of the discussion cannot be raised, locking the thread seems perfectly reasonable.
 
 
Haus Of Pain
10:31 / 12.09.07
"On the other hand, the suit "SHUT THIS SITE DOWN NOW!" is a troll, and has been for some years now, as his last few usernames betray(he was previously "ONLY 25 PEOPLE USE THIS SITE", as I recall). Some may remember him going by the name Mummy's Pork Sword. Hilarious guy, really, roffles all round. His tiresome Vice-magazine prankster antics have set the tone in this thread, it seems."

Oh no, i'm not a troll. I might get up your nose but hey you totally get up mine. Additionally my sense of humour may not be to your taste, perhaps you feel it's childish? However doesn't really make me a troll does it?

Nice to see you're still excessively dull though. Carry on.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:15 / 12.09.07
So, right. I think we have a couple of strands here. One of those is the use of music in public places to recall or communicate an emotion or create a shared emotional state - or _statement_ - regarding a shared trauma. Another is when and how it is appropriate - if that's a relevant consderation - to do this. And finally, there is this specific instance of this, in the sense of garyancheta's request about songs to (sincerely, let's assume) commemorate the anniversary of the 11th September 2001.

The most recent use of music in a public place as memorial, and quite an interesting one, was the decision to play thhe theme from "Z-Cars", the traditional opening music of Everton football club, by their rivals Liverpool before a European match. This was done to commemorate the death of Rhys Jones, an 11-year old Everton fan who had been shot and died shortly before the match. It's easy to call this sort of thing mawkish or sentimental, but it strikes me as a basically victim-free way to assert that a child's murder is more important than rivalry between opposing teams of football supporters, and should be mourned by the entire community. Football and music are important ways to express solidarity on Merseyside - I recall Tranmere and Everton fans singing "You'll Never Walk Alone" to show support for Liverpool fans after the Hillsborough disaster, and during the Sun's subsequent campaign of vilification.

This is an example of a recent use of music in a public space to communicate a specific message about a recent and tragic event, which seems pretty uncontentious and, IMHO, quite touching. 9/11 differs from this, of course - partly because of the numbers involved, and the time elapsed, but also because it is tied in with all sorts of foreign policy and political issues - it has a far wider context than the death of a child. So, six years on, one might find that one's original reaction - horror, sympathy, rage - has been altered. My feelings about 9/11 have been permanently altered, I think, unavoidably, by the way Giuliani and Bush have used it for personal and political gain, for example.
 
 
garyancheta
11:49 / 12.09.07
Wow...I had no idea this would get out of hand so quickly.

I'm a DJ in the Tampa area and a teacher. Yesterday morning, I woke up to the song "Cell Phones Ringing in the Pockets of the Dead" and I couldn't help but think that this would be an interesting theme for my DJ set this Friday.

On 9-11, I didn't feel direct sorrow or direct empathy. I know I felt bad for those at Ground Zero, but I didn't know anyone who lived there directly so I had this sort of misplaced anxiety about the whole thing. I felt, probably like many Americans, very very uneasy.

It wasn't like I was expecting another plane to hit. It wasn't like I felt overwhelming sorrow or sadness...crying and gnashing my teeth. I felt that showing that type of emotion was out of place and reserved for those who were directly affected by the deaths in 9-11. On 9-11 I gave blood and comforted those who I felt needed comforting.

This year, I came into my class to talk about 9-11 and I realized that my students didn't have the same sense about the event that I did. They had a child's understanding...of heightened fear and tension. They had stories of being in middle school and not understanding the scope of what was happening.

I felt that, this week when I do my DJ gig, I wanted to do something that conveyed that sense of uneasiness...because I don't think it's ever really left me since that day. I wanted to find songs that talked about 9-11 and just the uneasiness that a lot of people still feel. If you haven't heard "Cell Phones Ringing in the Pockets of the Dead"...it is such an uneasy song and it fits to the feeling I want to convey.

So if anyone has songs or knows of songs that would make my DJ set better, let me know. I'm being sincere about this. I don't mind the funny, gallows humor songs...but I am looking for songs that do that in a more subtle way. I don't think I want songs of absolute comfort. I want contemplative songs.

- G
 
 
Haus of Mystery
13:09 / 12.09.07
Look, never mind mentioning 9/11, keep signing off like that and Boboss'll throw you off the site himself...

And be warned he has forearms like Popeye.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:09 / 12.09.07
Well, I assume that by specific you don't mean that they were written about 9/11, but rather that they evoke something about 9/11.

In which case - well, it's a different tower, but "The CN Tower Belongs to the Dead" by Final Fantasy reminds me of the WTC, possibly because I have no real sense of the CN Tower. It's a sad and quiet song, and the sense of the tower being filled with spectral denizens is disquieting - in terms of that "uneasy" feeling.

More recently, although perhaps not appropriate for tiny tots, there's "Values" by Hammell on Trial, which directly addresses another reason for uneasiness - the uses to which 9/11 has been put by the Bush administration. Over a simple solo guitar accompaniment, the singer describes a series of conversations with his 2-year old child in which he repeatedly fails to convince him to tidy his room, play nicely with other children and generally behave in what had previously been considered a sensible fashion, since the rules of conduct appear to have been suspended in the US.
 
 
grant
15:29 / 12.09.07
Here: an audio file of "Cell Phones Ringing (In The Pockets of the Dead)". It's a protest song with about the same tempo as "Might Makes Right," which (to me) is a slightly more disturbing protest song, since it's so damn sarcastic and enthusiastic. They seem like they'd mix well. It's also not about the event itself as much as the political aftermath, thus less, um... dwelling? prying?

Dunno.

(Nile's bio, by the way, says the song was written in reaction to the Madrid train bombings, which is a strange thing for a New York songwriter to say, especially on an album called Streets of New York, but whatever.)

I'm still uncomfortable with what this thread is asking for, but not necessarily with the premise behind it any more - thanks for the explanation.
 
 
grant
15:33 / 12.09.07
Here is a video for the CVB song. I'd never seen it before.

It plunges hip deep into it in about the same way the song does.
 
 
garyancheta
21:25 / 12.09.07
I'll try it out "Might Makes Right." Thanks for your help. I'm sorry that my post brought up so much ire. I purposefully posted this on Barbelith because I knew that a lot of you would seriously consider what it means to create mixtapes and music in the wake of something like 9-11. I hope that the initial post didn't offend. It wasn't meant to be provocative and I apologize that it came off as such.

Part of me thinks that I should just scrap this idea...but I really want to express something through DJing that isn't just rhythm and beats matching up together. I want to make something thoughtful. And it's not as if I'm DJing in a club. This venue is just a Tea hangout where hipsters go to drink tea.

As for the Madrid Train Bombings/Pockets of the Dead, the idea was that he wrote the song about both events. The eerie thing about the Madrid Train Bombings was the workers mentioning that they could hear dead people's cell phones go off as they were clearing bodies and it creeped many of the workers out when they heard the cell phones. He used that detail and combined it with 9-11 in order to make the song. It was an NPR thing yesterday morning, so that's why I mention it. They were doing something very similar...playing music either inspired by or about 9-11.

- G
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:44 / 12.09.07
I did actually make a mix CD inspired if not exactly by 9/11 then by the feelings around that period, personally and more broadly. I think I felt quite ashamed at reaching out for what felt like rather a facile means of trying to capture or express the apocalyptic mood and the overwhelming sense of horror (exacerbated, no doubt, by the massive, constant coverage - the constant rolling news repeating the same limited information and horrifying footage over and over again). I was sufficiently ashhamed of the impulse not to share the CD with anyone, I think. Even now, I feel rather ashamed to admit to having done it.

The only song I can remember being on it offhand was "Stay where you are" by Sleater Kinney, as it happens.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:50 / 12.09.07
I think I felt quite ashamed at reaching out for what felt like rather a facile means of trying to capture or express the apocalyptic mood and the overwhelming sense of horror

I wouldn't worry. More than mix CDs, a lot of people recorded entire studio albums with much the same intent. And, in other, more tragic news, some people decided to kill some more people in response.

Now, if only Bush had just made a bunch of mix CDs instead of going into Iraq... (Why do I think he'd be a fan of the Dave Matthews Band?)
 
  
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