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Advice on Metamorphosis

03:30 / 28.08.07

I've recently started delving back into my occult side after years of denial/neglect, and from the first few weeks on I've been getting tons of synchronicities, most specifically through divinations/tarot, about myself needing to move from "bull" to "monkey." Now, I can grasp what the change means, the bull being more "earthy" and the monkey being more "firey," but does anyone have any recommendations for affecting this change? I've recently started chipping away at the Chaos Magic cannon, reading Liber Null and Psychonaut and now about halfway through Condensed Chaos. Carroll's ritualistic suggestions are a bit too stuffy and elaborate for my tastes, and Hine seems to be a bit more along my line, if that helps to show knowing where I'm coming from.

07:53 / 28.08.07

Lol , how bizzare (coincedence why ) . Well I've considered myself a Bull for many years (Taurean , Ganesha accolyite, intrest in Mar'duk, Earthy neature etc).
What mythologey or form of teh Bull are you indetifing with as well ???

A few years back found myself in a similar issue to your self , so i switched (well was led

) tO Hanuman. Not such a huge leap from the aspects of being a Bull(say a taurean for exampe , devotion , stoic , loyal), but does contain a wilder, sometimes more micheavious nature

.

However remeber the Bull is also fertilierty and rampant power (Goats and rams for instance are still "bulls"). Ganesha is normally associated with "bulls" and their are far more depths to him then an elephantine nature.

10:32 / 28.08.07

I consider myself to be a Lowly Worm, and have always found Pete Carroll's work to be fairly instructive in this respect.

Mako is a hungry fish

11:25 / 28.08.07

Ever read the story of The Monkey King featured in Chinese mythology? It's good for pointing out the dangers of a fiery character, and also its rewards.

To effect such a change, perhaps you can meditate on the nature of fire and invoke this nature within yourself? I've found the works of William Mistele to be helpful in regards to this, however sometimes find that my more darker attributes can come out and play when I do so, if I fail to guide myself towards beneficial ends.

12:10 / 28.08.07

Write in your journal as much as you know about your "bullish" characteristics and your "monkeyish" characteristics. Learn to recognize your "bull" and "monkey" as they manifest in your everyday life. Take time to understand them both in a deeper way, what motivates them to come to the fore, what their strengths and weaknesses are. What, in your bullish nature, can be reoriented or worked out? Does bull hinder monkey in any way? What actions will make it easier for monkey to manifest in a more postive way? Get each day's progress into your journal, and feed that back into your day-to-day. Use your divination system as a personal check to ensure that the changes you're putting yourself thru are beneficial to you and those around you.

13:11 / 28.08.07

Now, I can grasp what the change means, the bull being more "earthy" and the monkey being more "firey," but does anyone have any recommendations for affecting this change?

Worry less about money? Go to a night club and do an 'E'? Visit a foreign country without booking anything except the flight in advance? Abandon, perhaps, all this morbid self-attention?

13:26 / 28.08.07

Spend less time chasing after Spanish men with red capes and more time pursuing Charlton Heston on horseback.

trouser the trouserian

13:54 / 28.08.07

Have you thought of reading Jaq D Hawkins' book The Chaos Monkey?

14:22 / 28.08.07

Where is Ganesh associated with bulls? I'm quite familiar with his mythology and I can't recall any linkage between the two. Unless you want to go down the dubious line of well, elephants equals bulls because they're both quite, erm, big.

14:50 / 28.08.07

I was wondering the same thing, Roy.

15:08 / 28.08.07

This is the only thing I could find and it's on conservative site that addresses the defamation of Hinduism! This is painting of Ganesh as Taurus which I'm assuming is where the link is coming from, yes? Ganesh - associated with the Muladhara Chakra (Earth), Taurus - Earth, so they are both the same?

trouser the trouserian

15:09 / 28.08.07

I've occasionally come across contemporary images of Ganapati which show him seated upon a bull (probably Nandi).

15:21 / 28.08.07

Yes , the trait's of the Bull in Western Astrologey are attributed to Ganesha as well (fertility being another ).

The strengh and pack animal nature for coutries with Elephants for instance also superseeded's .

Im sure this maybe a more thelemic look cross reference (ill have to do a bit of a dig). Or im propably confusing it with his Dad ;( http://home.pacific.net.au/~ken_brown/index.html this for a intresting theory and how Ganesha can be linked to the 4 fixed signs of the Zodiac)

15:25 / 28.08.07

Yes, Nandi, that would make sense. However, IME, a closer association to Ganesha, other than the obvious elephant, would be a rat...wouldn't it?

15:48 / 28.08.07

Yeah, I've seen the Nandi association as well. The rat is more commonly his vehicle. I've read (somewhere, can't recall where) that this is because of his association with agriculture (elephants as ploughing fieds, rats nibbling away at grain stores). There is also the more obvious symbolism of micro/macrocosm with the human body as the link between the two.

16:01 / 28.08.07

osymandus, your associations to the Bull are a little too encompassing. There is also quite a distinction between Ram "energies"/nature Goat "energies"/natures and Bull "energies"/nature, that you should be more careful to investigate.

However, Andrue, the initiator of the thread, hasn't mentioned anything about Ganesh. So, I guess further discussion about osymandus' associations might be a little bit inconsiderate to continue with here.

Andrue:...most specifically through divinations/tarot, about myself needing to move from "bull" to "monkey." Now, I can grasp what the change means, the bull being more "earthy" and the monkey being more "firey," but does anyone have any recommendations for affecting this change?

You said there was a tarot divination involved? Do you meditate on the tarot that has given you this message?

I am just curious, but how did the Monkey show up in your life? What makes you believe that this is a transition as opposed to an "incorporation" of those qualities of Monkey?

19:14 / 28.08.07

"I am just curious, but how did the Monkey show up in your life? What makes you believe that this is a transition as opposed to an "incorporation" of those qualities of Monkey?"

I had a very strong synchronicity related to a Dagaz group I've dabbled in working with, in which they had been attempting to get me into contact with Raven. I was sitting in a coffee shop, when the barista yelled out "Is anyone waiting for Raven?" I figured I'd ignore it, and continue working on what I was working in, but then a woman walked in all occulted-out (her dress, her cane, and big raven wings tattooed on her back) and sat down at a table next to me to give a guy a tarot reading. She managed to fumble and drop all of her cards all over the floor, so I helped her pick them up, and she handed me a card with a bull on it, saying "You should look at this." I then noticed another card sitting under her chair, pointed it out, and picked it up for her. She said, "Well, then, you should probably look at that too," this card being the monkey. So what I drew from that was that I have been "handed" the bull role (personality wise it fits) but need to "find" the monkey role. This was again reinforced yesterday when I gave myself a Celtic cross spread tarot reading asking what kind of changes I need to make personally, and the fourth card was the Hierophant (I'm using a Thoth deck, so there is a bull behind him), and the fifth the Emperor (whose attributes I associate with the monkey).

I don't really see the link between the Bull and Ganesha myself, considering the swift boundary breaking side of Ganesha, and the slow, plodding, fixed earth nature of the Bull. I suppose what I'm really asking for are suggestions as to Monkey-type deities/constructs/etc. that I should look into. Hanuman doesn't seem to really represent the trickster/fiery side of the monkey that I'm looking at, but I could just not be reading him right.

20:26 / 28.08.07

What a fabulous experience, Andrue. I just have one question:

"You should look at this." I then noticed another card sitting under her chair, pointed it out, and picked it up for her. She said, "Well, then, you should probably look at that too," this card being the monkey.

What tarot card has a monkey on it?

You can check out some Eastern Monkey lore here. I also recommend the Chinese God of Mischief, Sun Wukong, who I think gets a little mixed up with Hanuman, sometimes. I think he is more of what you are looking for, Andrue.

20:29 / 28.08.07

Hehehe....the Headache Sutra!

11:03 / 29.08.07

The Ganesha/Bull aspect was a side note, so yes to extrapolate in this topic would have side tracked it.

Re Bulls Rams et all, my point was the links between these "symbols" and interconcetion that can be used as a transitional point the "handshake" between them.

"I need to make personally, and the fourth card was the Hierophant (I'm using a Thoth deck, so there is a bull behind him), and the fifth the Emperor (whose attributes I associate with the monkey)."

Of which there is also an Elephant on it. If i recall that was an atempt at the marrying of the East and Western symbols of Bull and Elephant by Crowley (the Heropphant being the great teacher (path between Cheshed and Nzetche if i recall ?)

18:22 / 29.08.07

What tarot card has a monkey on it?

It was some kind of weird deck that I can't find anywhere. It wasn't classic tarot in any way (maybe not tarot at all).

Of which there is also an Elephant on it. If i recall that was an atempt at the marrying of the East and Western symbols of Bull and Elephant by Crowley (the Heropphant being the great teacher (path between Cheshed and Nzetche if i recall ?)
There isn't an Elephant on the emperor, but there are rams and a lamb. I still don't buy your claim that bulls/rams/elephants are the same thing.

05:01 / 30.08.07

No I was talking about the Hierophant card . Of which there is behind .
Thinking about it again, Ganesha probably has closer links to the Sphinx in containing attributes of the 4 Kherub beasts rather then just one.

Hanuman is known in his story's for mischief (Trying to catch the sun, bothering and playing tricks on monks ). Just because he becomes devoted to Lord Rama dosnt mean to say he loses mischief making (A variation of a later story is how he tricks Arjuna into destroying his bridges he tricks him into making )