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Class and the isms

 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
13:21 / 26.08.07
Sparked primarily by the contrast I perceived between the reactions of the mainstream media to bigoted comments or ‘jokes’ coming from say, the working class Bernard Manning – who was quite rightly almost completely excluded from the TV for the later part of his life, and for instance the upper middle class Jimmy Carr – a man who seems to be able quite easily to get away with jokes which hinge around the rather repellent concept that gypsies are inclined to smell unpleasant, and yet is still rewarded with what seems like almost daily appearances on channel 4. In fact the idea for this thread was originally botn in conversation in the Bernard Manning death thread.

As stated in the Bernard Manning thread, I think there’s value in this concept, but I wasn’t, and am still not hugely confident starting a thread about such a sensitive topic, but I’ve been looking a the lack of action of Barbelith lately and I kinda decided that rather than making a contribution to the latest is Barbelith dying thread my time might be better spend a least trying to start a useful thread.

Also contributing to the soup of ideas that inspired this thread would be the Celebrity Big Brother racism row – not that I’d have any desire whatsoever to defend Jady Goody’s behaviour on the show, I didn’t see much of it myself but from what I did see I’m quite happy to believe it was cut and dried awful and entirely deserving of condemnation. But what I’m interested in primarily here at this point would be the reaction of segments of the British media to the row – specifically the Sun, I’m always a little surprised to see the Sun condemning bigotry, and always inclined to ask why it might be doing so in any case it does.

So basically what I envisage this thread doing is looking at how our media, our society and indeed perhaps ourselves might tend to react differently to expressions of the –isms according to the class of the individual who has acted in a bigoted manner. It could also be used to explore how the –isms themselves tend to manifest differently according to the class and verbal habits of the bigot involved, and how that might be connected to the reaction to said bigotry. I’d also be entirely happy to see this thread delve into how the experience of being a victim of the –isms might differ according to the class of the individual, although I can see that an argument might be made that that’s setting the focus of the thread a little bit too wide.

One particular idea to kick off the proceedings is that the media being particularly ready to call those bigots who appear to be working class on their bigotry may well have something to do with similar othering mechanisms to those that have been explored elsewhere on the board with regards to hip-hop and misogyny – a mainly middle to upper class media has very little problem pointing it out when someone who doesn’t talk or act like them is a problem, but isn’t necessarily so keen to do so when it’s someone who resembles them more.

Anyway, that’s my lot for now – I hope I haven’t made too much of a pig’s ear of this.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
15:39 / 28.08.07
We'll avoid pig's-ears if we're careful.

I want to suggest a thesis: "If we are disadvantaged by a class status (which includes food, health, education and prospects) it is harder to think constructively about attitudes towards people from other races/sexes/sexualities, which attitudes might be our own innate fear of the other, or might be imposed from outside by the media and the ISAs."

Is that agreeable? Or too simplistic?
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
20:09 / 28.08.07
I'm going to assume that by ISA's you're talking about Louis Althusser's Ideological State Apparatus (basically, how society shapes the individual in it's image). It's a little more likely a candidate than the International Seabed Authority, which probably can't make people racist unless they're on the seabed.
The thesis is 2/3 complete at the moment. What's missing is a 'because' at the end:

"If we are disadvantaged by a class status (which includes food, health, education and prospects) it is harder to think constructively about attitudes towards people from other races/sexes/sexualities, which attitudes might be our own innate fear of the other, or might be imposed from outside by the media and the ISAs, because..."

The elipsis representing the unknowable something we will hopefully discover during the course of this thread.

(There's also the minor issue of the word 'constructively' there since 1) what is being constructed isn't stated and 2)it assumes that, like a construction project, a society can be built to a final point where it can be considered 'complete' (c.f Marx on one end, Fukuyama on the other). There's also the issue of whether harmony is a positive thing- it may seem like a given but for somebody like Howard Bloom* (see The Lucifer Principle) and other proponents of kin-selection in biology inter-group competition drives evolution, but that's something for another thread and another time.)

Innate fear of the other and the media are both universals, so if we accept the assumption that disadvantaged people are more likely to be sexist, homophobic, racist etc. (something I wish I could say wasn't true) then something must be making them more susceptible to the influence of these two universals, just as an allergy can turn household dust into a deadly pathogen.
(I'll leave ISAs aside for the time being.)
Food and health are unlikely to be the factor here, for obvious reasons, leaving us with education and prospects, prospects being a scarce resource, education (at least the 'don't be an asshole to other people' part) being basically free and relatively easy for people to acquire irrespective of class (there are 'no hoodies, no trainers no Burberry' signs on pubs, not libraries, and it is not only in elite cultural products where you will see anti-bigotry messages but everywhere).
In terms of education, this assumes that working class people are generally profoundly stupid (which anybody who has spent any good length of time around them knows is not the case), since the theory behind not employing -isms is very, very easy to grasp on an intellectual level (for an experiment talk to a child of ten years or younger, if you happen to have one to hand, about bigotry, in terms they'd understand obviously, and see what they say- they're likely to know the theory even in if they are fairly bigoted in their innocent way). Similarly, those who have interacted with bigots of any stripe will know that not amount of education will change their minds. Bigots go to cognitive dissonance like John Prescott to a buffet table, and they profoundly distrust the 'liberal media' and 'activist' politicians/educators, so whether there is no anti-bigotry education on the national curriculum or nothing but will make little difference.

It is rational for those without good prospects to gain better ones or maximize those they already have. There are many ways in which it is not the the advantage of disadvantaged people to subscribe to 'isms'. In rational terms, Bloom aside, it just doesn't make sense to believe oneself to be at war with your neighbors (and if one is of a Marxist bent, your allies in class struggle). Antagonism increases the likelihood of you or your kin dying of violence, decreases the number of potential mates (in the case of racism) and prevents one from forming temporary or permanent equal partnerships with those outside of one's group for mutual benefit or protection. Though it's horribly damaging, this war of all against all is happening every day: this article details a study of the civic engagement habits of 30,000 people, concluding that those living in more diverse communities (irrespective of class) are less likely to "vote and the less they volunteer, the less they give to charity and work on community projects". They are also half as likely to trust their neighbors as those living in more homogeneous communities.
My suspect here is kin selection- we all have a natural preference for our 'kin' over non-kin (as has even been observed in babies), something some of us get over to a greater or lesser degree. When resources are scarce, as is the case in disadvantaged communities, this instinct bites harder, becoming much more pronounced. This, as you've probably observed, explains only racism, not sexism, homophobia or even religious bigotry. However, in (at least) Western society racism rarely manifests in somebody without sexism, homophobia etc. People don't say "I hate immigrants- unless they're gay" or "I hate gay people- unless they're a different color to me" (experiment on the racists you know to see if this is the case). The ideological justifications of the kin-selection impulse are bound in what Adorno calls the authoritarian or 'F type' (F for fascist) personality**. The 'will to power over others' Arthur Adler identifies as the central neurotic trait of F-types could easily be understood as heightened evolutionary pressure, the most natural posture to assume difficult situations which, as history and psychology shows us, brings out the worst in people.


*= I'm aware of his dodgy position regarding Muslims, so let's keep focussed on the matter at hand, 'kay?

**= Of course there are other forms of racism beside frothin-at-the-mouth Nazism, but with even the more subtle forms of racism there is also likely to be low-level homophobia and sexism present.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:55 / 29.08.07
If we are disadvantaged by a class status (which includes food, health, education and prospects) it is harder to think constructively about attitudes towards people from other races/sexes/sexualities

I don't think I'd even accept this premise. Harder to express oneself in a manner that is deemed constructive by people who are not disadvantaged by class status, yes. But people who are not especially disadvantaged by class status spend much of their time thinking about attitudes towards people from other races/sexes/sexualities in a profoundly unconstructive manner, and expressing themselves in ways that seem eloquent and reasonable to each other, but are actually actively harmful.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
11:30 / 29.08.07
Innate fear of the other and the media are both universals, so if we accept the assumption that disadvantaged people are more likely to be sexist, homophobic, racist etc.

Innate fear of other a universal? Perhaps, but I'd like to see some sources for that. Media a universal; true in a limited sense - the vast majority of people living in the N. America/W Europe are willingly or unwillingly exposed to mass media, or have the potential to expose themselves to mass media if they so wish. That doesn't mean we can lump either "mass media" or "the audience" into homogenous categories with simple and predictable consequences and effects arising from their interactions.

And then what Flyboy said.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:43 / 29.08.07
I think Phex's analysis also relies on a perspective that doesn't really see how certains "-isms" manifest themselves in educated, middle class, liberal, progressive or left-IDing people. This section in particular seems naive:

However, in (at least) Western society racism rarely manifests in somebody without sexism, homophobia etc. People don't say "I hate immigrants- unless they're gay" or "I hate gay people- unless they're a different color to me" (experiment on the racists you know to see if this is the case).

Two problems with this: firstly while it may be unlikely that someone says "I hate immigrants - unless they're gay", it is not unknown for people to be, say, gay and xenophobic (to pick an easy example, UK Big Brother contestant Marco entered the house declaring "asylum seekers" one of his 'hates'). But secondly, and more importantly, these obvious examples (I'm sure other people can provide ones which relate to people who fight racism but are also almost self-consciously homophobic) are not the be-all and end-all of what 'racism' or 'homophobia' mean.

It would be so much easier if they were - if the sum of homophobia was people who say "I hate gays", say. The problem is that these "-isms" are more insidious, subtle and ingrained at both an individual and cultural level. I'm sure there are plenty of people who consider themselves actively anti-racist who, for example, agree with the media and government's call for "the black community" to provide stronger and more positive "black role models" to steer young black people away from violence, crime, etc - and yet don't find it odd that there never seems to be a call for "the white community" to provide better "white role models" when white kids commit shootings, etc.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:56 / 29.08.07
I realise that Phex did acknowledge the latter, sort of, in a foot-note, but I still feel that his post contains an assumption that "bigots" are easy to spot:

Bigots go to cognitive dissonance like John Prescott to a buffet table, and they profoundly distrust the 'liberal media' and 'activist' politicians/educators, so whether there is no anti-bigotry education on the national curriculum or nothing but will make little difference.

The liberal media - let's take the Guardian as an example - may piss off or alienate some people who might accurately be described as bigots. But to my mind it also is written by and gives succour to the prejudices of another lot of people who I would describe as bigots - and I don't mean some kind of "you're prejudiced - prejudiced against my dislike of the gays!" nonsense. There have been numerous examples of this detailed and discussed in this forum.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
14:12 / 29.08.07
On that, Flyboy, you're definitely right - the Guardian will print spurious Imperialist bollocks and justify this with reference to stereotypes of suffering foreigners who need to be "liberated", and 100 other horrors.

My suspect here is kin selection- we all have a natural preference for our 'kin' over non-kin (as has even been observed in babies), something some of us get over to a greater or lesser degree. When resources are scarce, as is the case in disadvantaged communities, this instinct bites harder, becoming much more pronounced. This, as you've probably observed, explains only racism, not sexism, homophobia or even religious bigotry.

So, economic lack makes the drive to breed and it's associated mental processes (kin selection, etc) desperate?

This might also explain the sexism, homophobia and religious bigotry if, for "mating" to work, women are seen as needing to fulfill a specific role, and only that role, and if gay people are seen as getting out of the "duty" of breeding, and if "religion" guarantees that what is, is.

But as Flyboy says, how do we then explain the bigotry in people who are not disadvantaged? Do they just have more floating around anyway? Does their bigotry get turned on by some other cause - the (anal?) desire to hold on to what they have, i.e. money, position, influence, leading them to see all "other" as out to steal it?
 
 
All Acting Regiment
14:16 / 29.08.07
Or, something I've just remembered, do they subconciously know that their position of power depends on other people being, arbitrarily, powerless; and so they seek to justify this by making out that those people don't deserve power?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:16 / 29.08.07
It strikes me that seeking explanations for bigotry, etc. in something like the drive to breed, or the drive to protect one's own property, still is about looking for an explanation for a mindset that is irrational while fundamentally assuming that human beings are rational. But we are not (merely). We are also emotional, and have a tendency to become neurotic.
 
 
This Sunday
17:32 / 29.08.07
I agree with Petey/Flyboy; it's a hard premise to swallow whole, this bit about oppressed people having a harder time thinking or acting critically towards other (oppressed or otherwise) subsets of people.

In some cases, sure there's a bit of a block, most of which stem - to my mind - from a perceived superiority or higher-status rather than seeing any similar oppression/lower-status. However, overall? Something like the 'mongrel literature' idea offends wealthy white men of a certain subset much less often than it seems to rub right against the grain for virtually any representative of a less default-empowered class (in the Eurodominant parts of the world, at least). There may be a counter of 'they haven't got it as bad as me' or 'they're oppressing me' that arises in some instances, but my experience has been that when there is a recognition of oppression, of unpleasant or sublimated position, the sympathetic reaction contains more immediacy and less of a clause of the 'how can I help/save them' and the antagonistic end is usually a polticised punctuation and not an overall assessment.

Evidence for this can be found, I believe, in the fictions of nonwhites, of women, of basically almost any oppressed class you care to name, in that those writers are far more likely to create situations and casts with greater diversity, sometimes almost deliberate diversity, compared to what straight white Christian men born to good money and the right town write. Not always, and not always for the best, but that deliberate or reflexive attempt to cover greater ground and explore issues simultaneously and in layers, demonstrates a greater willingness to examine and re-examine other peopeles/subsets as well as their own. This can be seen in examples culled at random from prose (Sam Delaney), comics (Devin Grayson), and film (Gregg Araki), versus, say, James Cameron, Alex Ross, or Kevin Smith, for whome ethnicity and gender are pretty much locked to being statements, with the statement or associative-memeplex coming first and the character's trait-in-question coming into being to support that which is necessary to the narrative/presentation.

James Duvall's character in Araki's Doom Generation is not predicated on his ethnicity, and frankly, you'd probably have a better chance marketing the film it they'd cast a white woman in the role (aside from the being badass thing; that's not good for Hollywood cash). Julia Nickson-Soul's in Rambo? Right, then.
 
  
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