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Islam and Islamophobia

 
 
GarbageGnome
14:46 / 22.08.07
A fellow poster down the in "Our Racist Press" suggested, with another also backing this idea, taking a look at Islam and the issues surrounding its perversion to justify violence. Then another poster linked a Facebook topic about Islamic treatment of women, and yet another of our brood pointed out how the article was a disguised attempt to take shots at Islam as a whole. So, I'm at work now and I figured why not do a little research and come up with something to show you folks on this subject. Who knows, you may find it as interesting as I did.

Britannica on the subject

So, thats where I began my lil insight, its a good overview of the religion and I wanted to highlight some things for rememberance later. One, the religion is not intended as a violently expansionist one. None of the Five Pillars encourage violence or the conversion of others through force. Since these 5 Pillars form the basis of the religion, I'm going to say that violence is not overtly present at the "Basis" of Islam.

So, something else must be responsible. I found more good information at the part of the article labeled as "Sectarianism." Since Muhammed left no clear successor, the religion began to fraction according to who the people wanted to follow after his death. This lead to the very first instance I can see of what we in our time would call "fundamentalist" or "radical" Islam, the sect known as "Khawarij."

The principle that lead to their embrace of violence was an interpretation of the Islamic belief of "enjoining good and forbidding evil" to do this, they used force.

However, in my opinion, this is not the most important aspect of "Khawarij" as it relates to our modern times.

They were also very anti-moderate Muslim. They believed that any Muslim who did not DO something to profess their belief was not a true Muslim. Take that bit of information and mix it with a belief in violence against "evil." The combination of these two beliefs is likely responsible for their violent ways, they committed acts of violence against "evil" (which could have been anything not in keeping with their belief system, case in point the cousin Ali, the elected leader of the faith at the time) in order to prove their faith in keeping with the first Pillar.

This type of behavior is not at all out of the ordinary when taking a look at religion. Christians have much the same problem in our time with groups of extremists who promote and support the bombing of abortion clinics. So this problem of a interpretation of the religion leading to violence is not specific to Islam (something my fellow Americans ought to wake up too.)

To bring it back to modern times I started looking at "Wahhabism" the fundamentalist view on Islam taught in Saudi Arabian schools. The founder of the movement was Wahhab, Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-. The sect focuses on being a "true" Muslim. To clarify, to be a "true" Muslim, one must not worship anyone but Allah, so their is no veneration at tombs or praying to any saints. They are also very strict adherents to the branch of Islam called "Sharia" or more commonly known as Islamic Law. Sharia, as you may expect, was drawn up way back when in 8th to 9th centuries. It is very important to note that Sharia is not just concerned with what a man is entitled or bound to do, but what he OUGHT to do or refrain from doing.

This makes it very easy for Wahhabi-ist to be turned to radical actions such as terrorism (not just against the US but also against other Muslims). If the leaders of the Wahhabi movement decree that the Sharia says that killing non-Muslims is allowed, (in such cases as to protect Islam from their predatations) then it justifys not only killing Westerners, but also other Muslims who do not follow Wahhabism and are therefore not "true" Muslims.

So the whole idea of "Radical" and "Fundamentalist" Islam is nothing new (See Khawarij) and is in fact being taught as a major religous movement (see Wahhabi and Saudi Arabia). But at its core, these ideas are not representative of the majority view on Islam. The Five Pillars as well as the most widely accepted views on the Qua'ran are not full of firey calls to jihad or suicide. These "radical" and "fundamental" beliefs are instead interpretations of Islam that bend it so that suicide bombings, kidnapping, beheading and the intense mistreatment of women, are all considered to be acceptable.

So, if these views are not what is considered to be mainstream Islam, and are infact repulsive to most Muslims, why are they so prevalent today?

I believe the answer lies in our own human nature. Muslims are people just like Westerners, and we share some things in common. The appeal of these beliefs is that they proclaim "we are right, and everyone else is wrong to the point of being malicious." They promote the idea that only adherence to their belief can save your soul and grant you entrance to the afterlife. That is something inantly appealing to a human, since we don't know what awaits us after death the idea of being assured a good time is like honey to a bee. I have the personal opinion that this is the reason 99% of people join religions lol.

While most Muslims would dismiss the statement "we are right, and everyone else is wrong to the point of being malicious," as ludacris, it doesn't need to convert the majority of Islam. Remember how HUGE Islam is. If you only get 1 Muslim out of every 10,000 to believe you, your still geting enough people together to form a radical group capable of bombings and terrorism.

Recruitment is further driven by the feeling of abandonment and resentment some Muslims in downtrodden countries feel towards the West and the majority Islam. Add those feelings to the message of salvation and vengeance put out by these groups, and you get our current state of affairs.

So, thoughts before I launch into another page lol?
 
 
Glenn Close But No Cigar
15:17 / 22.08.07
When you say While most Muslims would dismiss the statement "we are right, and everyone else is wrong to the point of being malicious," as ludacris do you mean as the words of this man?:



I only ask because it doesn't sound like Ludacris'usual lyrical style

*Ahem*

Back on topic, I think it's perhaps useful to ask here what we mean by the 'perversion' of Islam. Is this a perversion of the message of the Qu'ran? If so, does that not presuppose that a given faith is best represented by its holy writ, rather than its (usually extremely varied over time and space) practice? Are there problems with this presupposition?
 
 
GarbageGnome
17:09 / 22.08.07
The holy writ is not so much the best representation of the faith itself, but more the best representation of the basis of the faith. The Qu'ran is not synonymous with Islam. However, Islam is based on the overall message of the Qu'ran, and when that message is taken out of context, the perversion takes place.

So we're not assuming that the Qu'ran is the one true way of Islam. We're more assuming that Islam is a religion based on the guiding principles of the Qu'ran, which do not include mass suicide and conversion via force. When those principles are re-interpreted down the line as you point out, the original message can be lost.

I believe that is the root of the problem here, the message of Islam has been warped to be something not in keeping with the principles at the base of it.
 
 
jentacular dreams
18:15 / 22.08.07
They promote the idea that only adherence to their belief can save your soul and grant you entrance to the afterlife. That is something inantly appealing to a human, since we don't know what awaits us after death the idea of being assured a good time is like honey to a bee. I have the personal opinion that this is the reason 99% of people join religions lol.

May I request that you refrain from throwing opinions like that around, epecially on a board with a dedicated temple forum? I'd also point out that suggesting followers just see all religions as invites to the big afterlife party is extraordinarily simplistic, and disregards those religions which do not believe adherence is required for life after death.

On reflection though, I'd agree with your comparisons to Christianity, and point out that it too has had it's fair share of homicidal zealots (as, I suspect, have most faiths at one point or another). To an extent this is beside the point however. I would argue that whilst radical islam has galvanised a number of adherents into actions and viewpoints that are worthy of concern, it is not solely responsible for their being receptive to such a message. Global politics and economics have much to answer for on that front. Until these problems are addressed, surely radicalism of some kind (religious or otherwise) will always be an issue?

On the topic of following holy texts, one of my friends once mentioned that IZE context is probably the most double edged sword in the christian dictionary. It cannot be ignored, but used badly it can also be used to dismiss or alter almost any message within a holy book. Getting the balance right is always ultimately up to the person in question.

I wonder how the aspects of the Qur'an, Sunnah and the Hadiths that Wahhabism focuses relate to things like the psychology of othering?

Interestingly, as Wahhabism seems to be considered a conservative form of Salafism, and according to the (admittedly problematic) wikipedia article on Salafism: [its] principal tenet is that Islam was perfect and complete during the days of Muhammad and his companions, but that undesirable innovations have been added over the later centuries due to materialist and cultural influences. Salafism seeks to revive a practice of Islam that more closely resembles the religion during the time of Muhammad, I wonder how tenable a focus on Sharia is, given that it was only codified by a jurist living 150 years after Mohammed's death. Wouldn't going back to the source texts be a 'purer' approach?
 
 
GarbageGnome
18:51 / 22.08.07
It was more an attempt to break up large chunks of seriousness with something not quite so stiff.

The second part of your post I was trying to lead into towards the end. Radicalism in all its forms is not purely religious, it must have other factors. It is not the norm for someone who is enjoying their life to strap a bomb to their chest and blow themselves up, right? You have to be really unhappy with someone or something to resort to those kinds of measures (or perhaps just insane).

However, I don't agree that the global economy and political atmosphere are totally to blame. Do they play a major part? Most assuredly. But the roots of radicalism do not stem from the same place in every instance. What drives people to turn radical in Saudi Arabia, may not be the same thing as what drives a Palestinian. So, we can't come up with a global solution to make every person happy, it has to come down to a more specific level, no?

I think of it as trying to fix a cancer with a broadsword. Yes, the broadsword will get rid of the cancer, but also everything around it. You would have to do such a huge reordering of...basically the entire planet...And where would we start? Even if changing the sysstem on a global scale was possible, how would we change it to fix this problem?

The religious items were more inserted to try and give the justification for these acts an examination. In this case I was trying to discern the roots of the modern radical movement of "wahhabism." In this case we have to admit they are not going back to what we call the "Source" texts. In order to do that they must live only by the Qu'ran, the word of the Prophet. Wahhabism does do this, but also throws in the Sharia, likely because the Sharia is just the Qu'ran interpreted and expressed as a system of laws.

Wahhabism goes back to the "Source" as accoring to the Wahhabists and not as we might go back according to history. So, if the Wahhabist leaders say that the Sharia is a part of the "Source" and will help people live as they did under Muhammed, then that is what the followers believe.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:32 / 23.08.07
We seem to be talking about suicide bombing rather than about Islam, here, Garden Gnome. There have been some interesting recent studies about the relationship between suicide bombers and religion, which I shall attemot to dig up, Their findings are quite surprising.
 
 
GarbageGnome
12:56 / 23.08.07
For me, I don't really care about the fact that they are suicide bombing. Really if it makes everyone less on edge I'll just edit to "violent acts." But the base of what I'm saying is that there has to be something more then religion, that drives a person to committ violent acts. A normal happy person with the nice family and decent job, doesn't easily get swayed into committing acts of violence, thats what I'm trying to get at. So really, I'm (shockingly enough I'm sure lol, since I seem to have gotten myself painted as a conservative down in another thread) saying that Islam is NOT the root cause of suicide bombing, or bombings, or gunfights, or slap boxing. I'm saying that what we think of as "Radicalism" is more then just a religious phenomenon, it has to be something more sociological.

So, I came up with this little idea of mine. Basically, Islam is like the blood of the Middle East, and the radicalism is a virus. Blood by itself is necessary, since Islam is such a gigantic part of the Middle Eastern culture you couldn't just remove it. But it can be used as the medium for the transportation of the virus, right?

So, the question becomes how do we kill the virus without damaging the blood?

In keeping with this little idea, I thought of how you kill a real virus, you do it on the cellular level. Many thousands of immune system cells go out into the blood and repair the damage done, cell by cell. How could you do such a thing with something as massive and politically diverse as Islam?

Well, I thought about how misery loves company, but so does happiness. If we could just take one group of people, not even a country, I'm talking one city or town, and make it so that the Muslims there were peaceful, had food and drink and good wages, then those people there would start living happily (we are supposing the "happy part" since it is impossible to predict us human being, such chaotic lil creatures we are)

One group of people lives happy, and tell their friends, families etc. Word spreads of this great new trend where you can live happily. More people in the local area start emulating it, and it spreads, much like the immune system cells.

This is the "scalpel" I spoke about in my earlier post. I use the "scalpel" analogy because this idea is specific to each town changed. Each town's idea of happiness and their particular way of life will vary from region to region, but taht just makes it blend in more with the native cultures. Surely, we could not institute such a dramatic change all at once all over the entire Middle East. But slowly, over a decade or more, it is my fervent hope that something along those lines happens.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:05 / 23.08.07
Or 'we' could just stop arming, funding and politically supporting aggressive or oppressive states 'we' like in the Middle East, and threatening or actively invading any states 'we' don't like. That might make the Middle East "happier", as a place.
 
 
Glenn Close But No Cigar
13:14 / 23.08.07
If we could just take one group of people, not even a country, I'm talking one city or town, and make it so that the Muslims there were peaceful, had food and drink and good wages

You mean like, say, Dubai (not, mind you, that many of its non-Arab Muslim 'guest workers' have decent wages by Dubai standards)?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:26 / 23.08.07
Actually, scratch my last post. It's unhelpful in that it doesn't do justice to the weird and terrible shifting conflation that is happening in this thread between "Islam, "the Middle East", "radicalism" and "violence". I'm not really sure where to begin in unpicking all this. If violence in the Middle East is being discussed, it might be worth considering if there are any heavily armed, historically aggressive nation states - say, one's with conscription at 18 - in the region that are not generally Arabic or Islamic in their make-up or culture?
 
 
GarbageGnome
14:31 / 23.08.07
I don't want to make this a "Israel" thread. If you wanna discuss Israel, feel free to make a new thread and discuss it, but I'm going to limit my thoughts on the subject to those relavent to this one.

Israel is a non-Muslim state, and it just so happens that the tensions between Israel and the Middle East stem from...get this..a Religious Conflict. Its a very well known trend that anti-semitism is prevalent in the Middle East. I'm trying to get at a solution to that kind of a problem, removing the tensions gradually so that everyone can live in peace, without having to make Everyone the same. Removing Israel from the Middle East isn't going to stop the infighting between Muslim factions, or the exportation of fighters to other conflicts like Chechnya. So, lets try not to get tunnel vision on the Israelites. As I said before, it throws a very interesting dynamic into the mix, but if you want to go into it another thread would probably be a better idea.

Well, I was just looking up Dubai, and I saw that unlike many Arab countries, most of its revenue is generated from its "Free Zone" much like Communist China and its Special Economic Zones. This puts an interesting idea in my head, as it brings up the issue of economics as they relate to radicalism. The UAE is a collection of Arab Emeriates who formed in 1971 (when the seventh state joined up). It is very interesting to me because it is just behind the Saudis in terms of GDP in the CCASG, without being a oil dependent economy. So, heres what that meant to me.

If a Middle Eastern country can be that well off, without being a oil giant, maybe other countries will catch on. I mean, it certainly has its share of problems, the treatment of workers being a huge one, (though we must admit that is a problem for every emerging capitalist state). However I admit it gave me a glimmer of hope if only because it shows that even in the Middle East, when people get together and trade freely good things can come of it.

However I then noticed that a few of the 9/11 hijackers were from the UAE, so I did some digging and the principle hijacker from the UAE was Marwan al-Shehhi, the son of a Muslim Cleric, who studied in Germany but was unable to speak German and thus flunked out (gotta speak German to graduate). So, this has thrown me for a loop yet again.

If it takes some adversity and bitterness to fan the flames of radicalism, where did Marwan turn? To the best of my knowledge it was in Germany when he was flunking out of a Western school because that Western school required him to speak their language. That event may have been the thing needed for Muhammed Atta to turn him to radical Islam.

So, if Atta was the person who "infected" Marwan with the "Virus" of radicalism, where in turn did Atta get it? Based on what I found Atta traveled abroad a great deal in his life as a student, and a trip to Aleppo is where I see his radicalism start. His thoughts that the construction in Aleppo were taking the fabric of the city apart drew him into the idea of the conflict between Arab tradition and modern development. This conflict would grow into a hatred of Israel and his eventual recruitment into Al-Qaeda.

So I'm seeing what people see when they look at the corruption of a human being, its a slow and gradual process that doesn't just pop up and take hold. As far as I can tell none of the 9/11 hijackers just made the snap judgement to join al-Qaeda, they all had a slow descent into radicalism. So, I'm thinking now that radicalism takes a lot of time to seed and grow into violence.

Then how can it be stopped if the changes are so slow the person in question doesn't even notice them? Well for one thing, we have to think about the roots of corruption that are ensnaring the most young Muslims, which are the already present radical groups that prey on impressionable Muslims. If we could stop them, militarily or otherwise, we could stop their recruitment of young Muslims.

Then the problem becomes fixing what caused those groups in the fisrt place. Just looking around at some of the well known ones, the resaons for their creation are many and varied, so unraveling THAT ball of knots is something I gotta research before I make any kind of statement.

Anyone got anything on this?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:47 / 23.08.07
Look, GarbageGnome. I know you're new to the board. I can't quite work out to what extent you're being ingenuous. But I need to let you know, and I will try to do this as politely as possible, that if you make generalisations like Islam is like the blood of the Middle East, and the radicalism is a virus and then object to people pointing out that there is at least one state in the Middle East where Islam is clearly not like its blood, and tell them it's not "relavent" and to go start another thread, you are probably not going to fare well here.

You have already needed to be told that there are Muslims, even ones who live in the Middle East, who are peaceful, have food and drink and good wages, and live happily, rather than needing 'us' to "make it so that the Muslims [in one city or town] were peaceful". It is good that you are now acknowledging that your awareness has limits and that research is a good and necessary thing to discuss global politics and culture.

As an example, the statement the tensions between Israel and the Middle East stem from...get this..a Religious Conflict suggest that you are both uninformed about any version of the history of Israel and surrounding states that I am aware of, and at the same overconfident ("get this") in your understanding of the related conflicts. Any serious historical account of the founding of Israel, wherever its sympathies lie, refrains from depicting Israeli/Arab clashes as originating in "a Religious Conflict" (and what are those capital letters doing?). I would suggest doing some reading.

As an aside, there have been plenty of threads on Barbelith about Israel, about Islam, about the Middle East, about other nation states involvement in the Middle East, and about how these interact. I'll thank you to read some of these (it's not hard, just look at old pages in the Switchboard for starters) before telling me that I should start a new one.
 
 
GarbageGnome
15:10 / 23.08.07
I'm just trying to make sure this thread doesn't turn to the subject of Israel and not radicalism, its kinda rough to get emotions across with just text on a screen but don't take it as me being aloof and saying "Get ye to a new thread and bother someone else."

And I do know a good deal about Israel and its founding, and in one world history class read just about the entire printing of "Der Judenstaat-The Jewish State." And also that the whole thing started to take a turn for the worse (in my opinion at least) when the Balfour Declaration came out and the Arabs rioted. Then you had the Aliyah's of the late 30's when the Jewish population really soared and then British tried to wash their hands of the Palestine problem, then came Resolution 181 and the whole mess to follow. So, I'm not just spouting nonsense and babble lol. Again, I just didn't want to drag up the old "Israel vs. Muslims" argument and focus more on what turned Islam into a hotbed for radical sects. And I didn't say I didn't want Israel talked about as a part of what can turn someone to radical Islam, I'm totally cool with that, just didn't want the argument to turn to something more appropriate for a new thread. Though looking back the start of my last post did come off wrong, it was just short cause I didn't want to loose the idea I had in my head.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
13:42 / 24.08.07
1)

On suicide bombing. All should read Lenin's Tomb's suicide boming dossier - in fact I'd say it's required reading - some of which I will quote here:

The old strategies for explaining suicide bombers range from the idiotic to the inadequate: they hate our freedom, they're just jealous, they hate us for being infidels, they are fascists, they have a perverted ideology, they are Muslims, they are desperate, poor and ignorant, they are anti-globalisation, they are psychophaths, they are brainwashed etc etc. Of these, you can probably surmise which ones are inadequate and which are foolish.

Religion.

Take religion. One way of conceiving religion as a causal factor is to see it as part of a 'clash of civilisations', pace Huntington and Scheuer, in which most Muslims either support, accept or acquiesce in suicidal attacks on civilian targets on the West (the 'West' is a poorly defined concept, but let's say for now that it includes Europe, the US, Israel, Australia and some non-Western capitalist powers). This has, I have noted, involved some rather ludicrous distortions of evidence as well as grand extrapolations from limited bases of data. As far as we know, while most Saudi citizens agree with the pre-eminent political goal of Al Qaeda, and while most Palestinians appear to support suicide attacks on Israel, there isn't a great deal of support among Muslims for Al Qaeda or any of its confederates. A tiny fraction of Muslims have actually been involved in terrorism of any kind, and a much smaller number have been involved in suicide attacks. This is ABC stuff, and it leads us directly to the next conception: the Bush-Blair explanation...


Also:

Fascism, perverted ideology, brainwashing.

One comical aspect of some of the pro-war Left's attempts to efface Blair's co-responsibility for the terror in London has been the ridiculous idea of privileging a 'fascist' ideology as the leading causal factor. Those who debase the word fascist in this way are neither good anti-fascists, nor good analysts of the movements which are under consideration. But leaving aside the academic (though not scholastic) distinctions about precisely what counts as fascism, what we are interested in here is the idea that an ideology of some description is the chief causal factor in the readiness to kill civilians, particularly in the ways that we have seen in New York, Bali, Turkey, Madrid and now London. It is already fairly well established that the tactic of suicide bombing has been used by a variety of groups, with distinct ideologies. There have been different Marxisms, different secularisms, different Islams involved (Al Qaeda appear to be Sunni, but Hizbollah are Shi'ite). The fact is that in each case the ideology does not seem to have been decisive in the decision to use suicide missions. Similarly, no suicide bombers have come from Iran as yet, which is the scene of a particularly reactionary brand of Islamist rule.


Ultimately, suicide bombing is just a millitary tactic; one that specifically can be used by your weaker fighting force against stronger ones if you don't have tanks and helicopters. And it works. It's not a nice or happy thing, but it acheives millitary objectives. People who say that suicide bombing is particularly unreasonable/ideological compared to all other forms of warfare seem not to be considering all the people who join the army, and put themselves in danger of death, to fight for such abstract nouns as "The West", "America", "Our Freedom", etc.

And why would someone want to construct an enemy as "unreasonable"/"mad"/"out of touch with reality"/"perverted by ideology"? Well, usually it's because the people with the power to construct such images want an excuse to take over the places where the "enemy" lives, and if they can prove themselves reasonable/in touch with reality/bringing freedom and so on, the job will be much easier.

2)

On talking about Islam, and who gets to do so, and related issues. Lots of people and entities claim the "free speech" to talk about Islam these days - yet the majority of these have no qualifications to do so. Take the British tabloid press for example. I doubt that many of the News of the World's staff read Arabic or have Religious Studies degrees - not because they're stupid, but because they're journalists rather than theologians.

To my mind, there are certain basic requirements to any analysis of a religion. These are:

1)Extensive, objective knowledge of the Text, or Texts, of the religion; so in this case the Ko'ran, and the pillars, but also other things such as important commentaries, hagiographies, artworks and so on - all the things which the adherents of the religion refer to. The "what" of the religion.

2)Extensive, objectve knowledge of the relations between the the Text and the adherents' Practice; which is to say, supposing there is some obscure law buried away in the Text about it being okay to shoot your neighbour if he sings too loudly, how many people actually follow this or consider it as useful? Do people treat the Text as scientific fact, or law, or history, or simply philosophy, or moral guidelines - or any combination of these things? What different sects are there and how do they differ? The "who" and "how" of the religion.

3)Finally, extensive, objective knowledge of the economic, political and cultural factors affecting the Adherents' relation to the Text; such as, who is at war, who is at peace, which groups suffer poverty, which are richer, and to what extent does all this affect the actions of a given adherent or group. The "why" of the religion (and any serious "why" will involve economic rather than spurious claims of racial or cucltural pre-determination).


By this standard alone, most of the discourse on Islam in the American-European media is woefully lacking. And these days, I'm almost coming to the opinion that the only good places to get useful, accurate opinions about Islam and Islamic affairs from are places like Al-Jazeera and the MCB and persons like Tariq Ali and Imran Khan - that is to say, from Muslims themselves.
 
 
grant
14:01 / 24.08.07
Interesting factoid popped up in a Time article posted on reddit today: Out of a listing of "least religious" countries, Israel ranked 19th in the world.

This ranking is based on that fact that up to 37% of the population claims to be non-believer, atheist, or agnostic.

---

Also, there's a Barbelith thread on suicide bombing here.

There's a (metaphorical) thread linking tabloid coverage of lovers' suicides in the early 30s in Japan to the Human Flesh Bullets of Japan's assault on Shanghai in 1932

to the kamikaze campaign of late 1944


to Japanese Marxists training Palestinian Marxists (atheists) in the 1970s

to the Tamil Tigers (mostly Hindus), who are still, I believe, the leading practitioners of suicide bombing, using the tactic against (what they see as) a predominantly Buddhist occupying force.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
15:06 / 28.08.07
This ranking is based on that fact that up to 37% of the population (of Israel) claims to be non-believer, atheist, or agnostic.

Yes, but then they would, wouldn't they? I mean given that Israel's whole method is to present themselves as the rational, modern country amongst barbarians, they're going to do everything they can to distance themselves in the eyes of the world. This doesn't stop Israelis claiming, when it comes to violence, that Israel doesn't have to justify its actions because it is "a project" or "a gift" of Yaweh.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
08:58 / 30.08.07
Further to the edification of all on the theories of and data on modern suicide terrorism, including suicide bombing, I direct you all to the downright inspiring research of Scott Atran.

"Contemporary suicide terrorists from the Middle East are publicly deemed crazed cowards bent on senseless destruction who thrive in poverty and ignorance. Recent research indicates they have no appreciable psychopathology and are as educated and economically well-off as surrounding populations. A first line of defense is to get the communities from which suicide attackers stem to stop the attacks by learning how to minimize the receptivity of mostly ordinary people to recruiting organizations."

- Abstract to his Science article on suicide terrorism

Go see his page at UoMichigan for more on the topic, and also some brilliant rebuttals to amongst others Dr. Dawkins on the nature and function of religion.


Though I'm certainly no expert on Islam, I do know that people I know working in the field always drag out Sayyid Qutb as a man whose life and work is very important to understand the 20th century rise of what is now in the West called Islamic fundamentalism or Islamism. More on this, I hope, later.

Qutbism

Also good to read is this article from the Guardian by noted religious scholar Karen Armstrong. Summed up in a sentence she argues that "The story of Qutb is also instructive as a reminder that militant religiosity is often the product of social, economic and political factors."
 
 
All Acting Regiment
09:57 / 14.12.07
So, this talk about how 'Islamic moderates need to speak out more'. How to deal with it? I mean, we have the facts:

*There are many prominent Islamic leftists and feminists
*These people tend also to be critical of US power, = do not get airplay

... but I was wondering how other people here deal with the assertion? Or is it even worth accepting as a premise?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:48 / 14.12.07
It's not worth accepting as a premise. I don't think "Islamic moderates" even need to be particularly critical of US/UK/other state power/military actions/government policy to have difficulty getting media coverage, to be honest. Nor is it that kind of criticism alone which will lead them to be seen as failing as approvable moderate voices: anything other than total capitulation to the idea that Islam is primarily defined by its extremists, that those extremists are the number one threat to world peace today, and that Islam is a barbaric superstition inferior to and irreconcilable with supposedly secular Western democracy... This will not be seen as enough.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
11:20 / 14.12.07
On what do you base that assertion? I'm not so sure the picture is that simple.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
14:09 / 01.04.08
So, this has come up on another forum:

Video-hosting site LiveLeak pulled the controversial anti-Quran film Fitna Friday afternoon, citing a barrage of threats.

The 17-minute film by Dutch politician Geert Wilders, posted Thursday, received more than 3 million views before being taken offline. Fitna juxtaposes passages from the Islamic holy book with graphic footage of terrorist attacks in the United States and Europe. In one scene,the sound of paper ripping can be seen as a reader pages through the Quran.

Put together as a warning that Islam poses a threat to the Netherlands, Fitna includes newspaper headlines about terror attacks, graphic images of beheadings at the hands of Islamic radicals, and a riot-provoking Danish cartoon from 2005 that depicts the prophet Muhammad with a bomb in his turban.

In place of the video Friday afternoon, a brief and poignant message appears on-screen: "Following threats to our staff of a very serious nature.... LiveLeak has been left with no choice but to remove Fitna from our servers.

"This is a sad day for freedom of speech on the net.... We would like to thank the thousands of people from all backgrounds and religions who gave us their support."

Wilders released the 17-minute film via LiveLeak despite concerns voiced by the Dutch government and international organizations.


Then we get this sanctimonious little png:



I'm hoping that what leaps out here is the way that a) the exact nature of these 'very serious threats' is left unspoken. What, exactly, was threatened, to whom, by whom? Could it be that the threats were made insincerely by teenagers, or could it be that they were made up? Both of these are possible, but the article ignores them.

What it also ignores is the downright stupidity of the film itself:

Put together as a warning that Islam poses a threat to the Netherlands, Fitna includes newspaper headlines about terror attacks, graphic images of beheadings at the hands of Islamic radicals, and a riot-provoking Danish cartoon from 2005 that depicts the prophet Muhammad with a bomb in his turban.

That is to say, the film uncriticaly associates all of Islam with extemism and violence. It's a racist skinhead recruiting film. A 'warning' that only has revelance to the most idiotic xenophobia. And yet here it is being touted as some kind of innocent, 'reasonable' statement, uncritically.
 
  
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