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Nick Hornby

 
  

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Margin Walker
23:54 / 09.02.02
Anybody got any faves by him? Due to the general dislike on the board of the film version of "High Fidelity", I'm gonna guess not. I certainly can't say I'm terribly smitten with the book I'm reading now (the soon-to-be Hugh Grant movie, "About A Boy"). It's not the narration per se, but I just can't get into the story--yet another one about a shallow putz. In fact, all that's revealed about the protagonist is that earns 40,000 pounds a year doing nothing at his job (whatever that may be).

His new one "How To Be Good" seems promising, he seems to have good taste (wether it be musical or editorial), and he seems like an all-around good guy (after all, he's big into my fave band Marah). That said, anybody got any opinions one way or the other? Bueller?
 
 
that
05:34 / 10.02.02
As I recently said on another thread, I loved 'High Fidelity' as a book. I admit I read it at an appropriate moment, but it was, I thought, extremely funny and well-observed. I duly read, I think, every other novel he's written, in the apparently vain hope that another might be similarly appealing. I have found the rest unnecessarily depressing, annoying, or just plan boring - not hugely so, but nonetheless...
 
 
sleazenation
05:34 / 10.02.02
Ah. Nick Hornby - the man that made anal self obsession his literary credo

Following along from Blake Morrison and erupting at about the same time has helen fielding and Elizabeth Wurtzal, these authors don't just write about what they know, as much as turn a litany of their obsessions. Out goes characterisation and plot in comes a list of what i had for dinner, or top five singles or people i had sex with.

As flyboy mentioned elsewhere the rise of the childrens novel in all its richness and complexity (exploring as Pullman and Rowling do, the big questions) seems to be in direct proportion to the paucity of the so-called adult novel
 
 
Slim
18:41 / 10.02.02
The movie High Fidelity was better than the book.
 
 
Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?
06:48 / 12.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Margin Walker:
In fact, all that's revealed about the protagonist is that earns 40,000 pounds a year doing nothing at his job (whatever that may be).



He doesn't have a job. That's the...oh, never mind.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
16:02 / 12.02.02
I found About a Boy to be an enjoyable light read, though certainly nothing to write home about.

Never read High Fidelity but I'm tellin ya, the movie gets better after you've seen it a few times...
 
 
Cat Chant
10:31 / 16.07.05
Just thought I'd bump this thread after seeing lots of hatred directed at NH in various threads here & in the Music forum, because I really enjoy seeing articulate people explain why they hate things: so here is an opportunity, eg, Flyboy and Alex...

I liked About A Boy a very great deal - both the movie* and the book - and I was please to see it on the Young Adult shelves at the library because I think it's a classic piece of YA fiction. I have a particular weakness for non-romance romances, and hence really enjoyed the developing relationship between whatsisname-Hugh-Grant and Marcus. I liked how the teenage characters were autonomous and life-size in their interactions with each other and with the adults; I was reminded of Diana Wynne Jones a bit in the way that the narrative worked, and the way that the power relationships between children and adults were thought through. In DWJ and in About a Boy, children live in a world populated by flawed adults, on whom they are in some ways and to some extent dependent and who fail them very badly; that's not negotiable, and the narrative never just removes the children from the flawed adults to a fantasy freedom/autonomy (as in the Narnia/Famous Five tradition). But nor does it leave them purely at the mercy of the adults: the children are able to solve their own problems and address their own concerns, within the limits set by their relative lack of autonomy.

I liked the interplay between the various ways of doing adolescence and the different problems in the characters' lives: Hugh Grant, who's an adult-adolescent and has to negotiate where he stands wrt Marcus as a result; Marcus, who isn't cool and fucked-up but has real problems to deal with; and his girl friend (forget name), who is cool and fucked-up but doesn't have real problems to deal with. I love Marcus, because he's a bit of a Little Pete character: he just walks into someone's life and demands things because he needs them. Narrow of focus and very determined. And I love the moral of the story - that two isn't enough, that you need to create a larger family/community of care and support. More people need to hear that and to be given the resources to do it.

On the other hand, I thought How to be Good was ridiculous, for reasons which I could expand on if you're interested, and I can't get into either Fever Pitch or High Fidelity, so have stopped bothering to read any more Hornby.

*Tangent fancies Hugh Grant, which means that now I watch him with my interest piqued and my head on one side rather than with my fingers over my eyes. And of course Toni Collette is in the movie, which is always a good thing because she is the most beautiful woman in the world.
 
 
alas
16:47 / 16.07.05
Deva, your review of About a Boy is spot-on, I'd say--I also liked the movie and the book for the same reasons (and also can't remember what the Hugh Grant character's name is...). I know a child who so reminds me of the Marcus character, that I found the book quite insightful about him. Esp. when crossed with The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark Haddon. (But that might just be due to a Swindon connection, as it's a pretty different book. .. )

But, actually, still, I think the autistic kid who narrates that book Curious Incident book is similarly determined, and the book pretty strongly shows how "escape" simply isn't an option when people in your life suffer from long-term illnesses, esp. mental illness. You have to muddle through, and adults especially need to know that sometimes your muddling will cause serious messes and hurts but you just keep going on because trying to leave it all behind or cut off from it all is usually the worst option.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
10:14 / 17.07.05
The house in About A Boy - the movie, where the 'kids' 'mum' lives is, IRL, just round the corner.

So I particularly didn't like that film because it seemed like an attempt on the part of the producers to bring down property values in this area, implying as it seemed to that people round here are a)single parent families and b)prone to attempting suicide.

It isn't true!! From where I'm sitting I can see a BMW!! I can see two!! I'm sure I can...

And if that seems like an unedifying, unfunny and emotionally retarded response to the material in question, well I'm not denying it, but see also Nick Hornby on the subject of anything ever. I suppose complaining about people like the Hornster, or Jeffrey Archer, is like complaining when it rains, but when you're so obviously playing to the gallery in terms of the trite, easy set of assumptions you're uncritically shoving down the readers throat ('Blokz r sad, like overgrown boiz, they all like futball! Not like wimmin, who are gr8!' It is gud to be in relashionship! It iz bad 2 be alon!') I don't honestly see how you could allow the marketing department to publish your stuff under the heading of 'literature.'

Surely as an artist you 'should' be at least trying to question the dominant values of whatever society you happen to be living in, as opposed to, y'know, apparently doing your best to actively reinforce them?
 
 
All Acting Regiment
21:15 / 17.07.05
Well, I suppose you could also argue that an artist's job is to record his society. That's what Homer did: the Iliad doesn't say the invasion of Troy shouldn't have happened. In a smilar sense, Hornby just records familiar situations his readers might have been and thus will find entertaining. Therefore you could say his books are good because they please people.

However; damn straight, I think the artist should challenge the status quo. The rise of artists who criticise society is proof to me of human evolution. Thus by my own reckoning, Hornby doesn't rank highly, even though I've found a few bits of him funny.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
02:04 / 18.07.05
There are aspects of Nick Honby's life'n'work that I would find pretty amusing, if they came true.

I'm guessing that those are the ones that he prays nightly will never happen (though as a good old fashioned Islington athiest, whose father wasn't always there for the boring, ugly boy, and let's face it, how many of us would stick around if it seemed like that was as good as it got - I don't think I'm being unreasonable,) in much the same way as if you're a woodlouse, or related, the last thing you'd want is for someone to lift up the stone.


Being a bit flippant... I'd be very much up for having a serious discussion about what's so bad, and sickening, about Nick Hornby and his material, in terms of how it's impacted on UK society in recent years.

In fact I'm prepared to argue that pretty much everything that's gone wrong in Britain lately, up to and including the war on Iraq, is basically Nick Hornbys fault.

As he very well knows, the revolting little beast (his, er, work' being an ongoing attempt to impress his father, chairman of Barclays Bank as he is, so whither Nick Hornby, the crap kid - I'd be amazed if his father didn't try and have him shot...)

Ok, I can't find the right wurds now, too drunk, but... oh I don't know, Hornby... Fuck him.

Sometimes that's the wittiest, no the only thing you can say.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:20 / 18.07.05
That's what Homer did

No he didn't.
 
 
DaveBCooper
13:07 / 18.07.05
Has anyone here read ‘31 Songs’ ?

Hornby talks about – yes indeed – 31 of his favourite songs, and why they mean so much to him. I enjoyed this more than I have his recent novels, as I think he does a pretty good job of explaining the gut-level and hard-to-articulate feelings I suspect many people share about favourite bits of music.

I think it was published as ‘Songbook’ in the USA. Oh, and there’s a CD with 18 of the songs in question on.

More of interest, I felt, than his novels have been, though I read a short story of his in a McSweeney’s thing recently – something about a TV showing programmes from the future – which I thought was pretty decent as well.
 
 
Jack Fear
13:40 / 18.07.05
The songbook thing sounds pretty dire, but it's probably the best venue for Hornby to write about music.

The New Yorker ran a few review-slash-think pieces by Hornby where he'd talk about music, and they were just flat-out embarrassing—riddled with factual errors, appallingly rockist, abysmally ignorant of historical context, bespeaking a pitifully limited view of pop culture, and steeped in a profound lack of curiosity.

So let him talk about what the songs mean to him (maaaan), because he has demonstrated that he's painfully unsuited to talk about music in any larger context.
 
 
P. Horus Rhacoid
17:38 / 18.07.05
I don't ordinarily mind Hornby (the only novel of his I've read is About A Boy which I thought was enjoyable but not great), but I read a column of his ("Stuff I've Been Reading") in the Believer recently (in the music issue) where he talked about trying to read an SF book, and how he couldn't get into it because he didn't understand any of it. I don't recall what book it was, but I do remember feeling that he seemed not to want to like it. The whole article seemed aggressively obtuse. I'm not even a huge SF fan, but his attitude really annoyed me.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
18:52 / 18.07.05
"Even buying Iain M. Banks’s Excession was excruciating. Queuing up behind me at the cash desk was a very attractive young woman clutching some kind of groovy art magazine, and I felt obscurely compelled to tell her that the reason I was buying this purple book with a spacecraft on the cover was because of the Believer, and the Believer was every bit as groovy as her art magazine."

I offer no comment myself on the above, as yet.
 
 
Jack Fear
19:09 / 18.07.05
There's really nothing to say, is there?

Poor lad. This complicated world can be so cruel to such simple children of God as he.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
22:51 / 18.07.05
Okay, so let's do this - not quite in full, yet, but sketching the outlines...

First of all, I should state that my opinion of Hornby's writing is based on just one novel - High Fidelity - and a bunch of other pieces of writing, including extracts from other novels, but more often journalism pieces.

Secondly, I should admit now that my dislike for Hornby has much if not more to do with music than it does with prose fiction. I'm not sure the Books forum is the place to go into this, though. Suffice to say that a lot of people recommended High Fidelity to me, on the basis that it was about a guy obsessed with music. But I found many of the ideas about music expressed therein irritating and wrong-headed, and as Hornby and I have gone on to develop our views of music further, it has become more and more clear to me that, as Jack Fear's comments imply, they could hardly be more different. (Critic and musician Sasha Frere-Jones described Hornby as "unable to hear music as it exists and operates now... someone who can't confront or discern the present moment", and I think that's pretty accurate.) It must be said that Hornby's music writing is considerably worse than his fiction, in my experience/opinion.

Although I do think the prose fiction I've read by Hornby is godawful. Interestingly I found the films of High Fidelity and About A Boy relatively enjoyable, which suggests that as a basic sketcher of character and plot outlines, Hornby isn't half bad. However, his prose style in particular is crushingly banal, "as flat as piss on a plate" as a Yorkshireman of my acquaintance likes to say. Whereas some writers may aim for cold, dead-eyed alienation and succeed, Horny seems to be aiming for chatty, conversational informality, and instead to me it reads like cold, dead-eyed alienation.

There's one specific moment in High Fidelity that I can't forgive: it's when the narrator explains that he and his friends named their club night 'The Groucho Club' as a reference to the Groucho Marx line about not wanting to be part of a club that would have you as a member, and then adds [paraphrasing] "apparently there was another Groucho Club somewhere in the West End, but we didn't know anything about that". This is Hornby patronising his narrator in the name of a private joke between the author - by this point a Groucho Club regular - and the kind of reader who knows about the Groucho Club, unlike the stupid narrator hahaha.

Finally, there is the issue of influence. This is tricky and perhaps best avoided, as one can make the case that bloke fiction comes at bloke fiction time. Yet, irrational as it may be, I cannot help but blame Hornby for the likes of Mike Gayle, or for the fact that Tony Parsons has written not one but several novels (Parsons at least has explicitly cited Hornby as an influence, in fact the author who moved him to write 'fiction').
 
 
Alex's Grandma
01:18 / 19.07.05
According to an interview with Parsons I read a few years ago, Hornby apparently 'taught him to write from the darkest part of his heart.'

The mind doesn't so much boggle, as drag itself off into a darkened corner and cry itself quietly to sleep, along with all the angels in heaven.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
06:03 / 19.07.05
Given that Parsons has gazed between the Thighs of Burchill, I'm amazed the darkest part of his heart consists of blokes having trouble communicating, as opposed to, say, a thousand screaming children having their entrails eaten by clockwork teeth.

Another vote for the haterz, here... I actually quite enjoyed Fever Pitch as a pastiche of the autistic, self-absorbed football fan, and also because it did at times touch on some of the sadness behind the fan.

It was High Fidelity, without the excuse even of autobiography, that started to feed suspicions that Hornby had not been keeping it light to avoid self-disclosure, but was in fact, although no doubt a very personable and pleasant man, in literary terms a sociopath. The scene in which he decribes what is actually going on in his brain during the seduction does indeed want to give the impression that all men think like this, which I sincerely hope is as inaccurate as I believe. The gruntingly awful post-mortem girlfriend-sexing is probably the nadir of this; the idea that somebody might react to bereavement by having sex with their ex is perfectly sensible. The way that it is portrayed is droolingly insensible.

Having said which, I think I liked About a Boy best, because the central characters - nerdy adolescent and man whose comfortable lifestyle has innoculated him against introspection or engagement with the world - have a sort of Hornby-on-Hornby chumminess which works quite nicely. It's important to Hornby père that Hornby fils come good. I think comparisons to Diana Wynne Jones are somewhat flattering, though...
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
12:58 / 20.07.05
Miaoooow.

Though, since you put it like that, and being no fan of Burchill myself I can almost excuse the horror that is Sugar if I consider it a trauma response to having had Parson's mouth(god I hate his mouth) anywhere near her ladygarden.

Which is to say, taking the piss along the lines of 'god, he slept with the moose' isn't very stylish, if I'm reading the implication right. There are far more interesting/apt things to attack them both for.

Anywaaay, Hornby.

Seem to have read more Hornby than I want to have done. And it's an interesting point about his music criticism, as my usual Hornby theory is that he's not very capable with fiction, but okay at reminiscence.

This based mainly on the fact that I think Fever Pitch is pretty good (and I try not to let the fact that it opened the floodgates to a slew of terrible football books get in the way of that) both as an self-critiquing investigation of fandom and as a memoir. Also, I know, because it's got 'therapy' stamped all over it while critiquing his own engagements with specific therapists.

I tend to think the fact that he's working with his own life and real external events anchors his narrative/reins in his excesses in a way that doesn't happen in his fiction.

But then, as Flybs points out, this doesn't seem to happen in his execrable music criticism which is smug, self-regarding and horribly convinced of the universality its viewpoint.

So, I tend to think that Hornby has a type of passion for football (provokes self-awarness, analysis and sense of humour) that he doesn't have about music.

Eg in FP, he's very aware of the contrast/absurdity of his obsession and the ways it drags him out of the norm, even in a mass fandom, whereas his music writing tends to function at the level of 'I like this, therefore it's great'.

Haven't seen him write about anything else, though.

As is presumably evident, I don't think much of him as a novelist, his novels are incredibly slight and yet manage to irritate me with their glib assumptions around gender and traumatic events. (thing with gender stuff than annoys me, is that there are flashes of real good stuff on masculinity, but they're never developed/usually resolve/disppear too simply. His nonfictional examination via FP is the best work he's done in this area) And everything else, come to that. There's no questioning or critique in the way that riddles FP, there's just event, consequence, event. Blah.

Can't stand High Fidelity(having, like Fly, had several people recommend it to me) and am not much keener on About a Boy.

I can see AAB might work on a YA level but I'm very loath, as per making excuses for Rowling, to assign writing I simply don't think is good to the YA category. Jacqueline Wilson and Mervyn Burgess both do this stuff so much better it's almost an insult to mention them.

I don't find Will's issues and movement believable but rather pat, and yet again, glib. It's too linear and easy. The description of the mother's mental health problems is appallingly broadly rendered/unrealistic. (agan, see JW and especially the Illustrated Mum for how to do this well) The women in general are ciphers and in fact it's very difficult to see anything from beyond the point of view of what Haus acutely describes as the 'Hornby on Hornby' exchanges.

It's self-indulgent, unsubtle nonsense and I probably wouldn't find it so annoying if it weren't so influential. But it is, and like Alex and Flybs, I find that appalling.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:34 / 20.07.05
Which is to say, taking the piss along the lines of 'god, he slept with the moose' isn't very stylish, if I'm reading the implication right. There are far more interesting/apt things to attack them both for.

As usual, the best advice regarding the unpacked formulation "If I am reading the implication right, it suggests that what I have so far believed about somebody I have got to know reasonably well over the course of several years is incorrect" is to consider quite seriously the possibility that one is not reading the implication right, at the very least before one decides to share one's understanding of the implication in the open field. Tannhauser family secret.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
13:47 / 20.07.05
okay, have PM'd you as I don't think this is relevant to the thread. I responded to a public statement that I believed I understood in the same sphere. If I am misreading you, as seems likely, I apologise here for it. Am interested in what your *actual* intention was though.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:48 / 20.07.05
Back to the bone, however:

And it's an interesting point about his music criticism, as my usual Hornby theory is that he's not very capable with fiction, but okay at reminiscence.

This might explain why he apppears to be intelligent and likeable in situations where he is not being asked to write books - I recall one interview where the interviewer had an awkward phone conversation with her soon-to-be ex in the middle, and commented glowingly on Hornby's concern and empathy. Not to mention his choice of an iPod as his luxury on "Desert Island Discs", which goes down as a classic Radio 4 moment...

However, this doesn't explain the awfulness of his music criticism, which I think may relate to internality/externality. One of the things about Fever Pitch is that it seems comparatively self-aware, possibly because before the explosion of popularity with the middle classes after Italia 90, the Taylor report and, um, Fever Pitch, Hornby wasn't able to be immersed in the world of football fandom, socially an dcoontextually, whereas music fandom has always been far friendlier to university-educated middle-class boys. So, he does not have the sense of distance - the innate sense of the ludicrousness of what he is doing - that makes Fever Pitch seem unsmug by comparison.

Case in point - at the beginning of FP Hornby says that if his partner knew how much he thought abbout football, she would have to leave him, on the grounds that he was clearly insane. There's a clear antithesis between sensible behaviour and ludicrous behaviour. High Fidelity doesn't really have that - in fact, most of the bbook is made up of Hornby/Hornby/Hornby - the slightly gormless manchild who does not quite understand the grown-up world he lives in, the combative, obsessive attack geek manchild who is cruel and inconsiderate, yet terribly funny, and the ethereal creative manchild whose innocence of the world belies his ability to create beautiful objects within the world - interspersed with his variious personae getting t3h s3x.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
14:11 / 20.07.05
Hornby wasn't able to be immersed in the world of football fandom, socially an dcoontextually, whereas music fandom has always been far friendlier to university-educated middle-class boys. So, he does not have the sense of distance - the innate sense of the ludicrousness of what he is doing

I think Haus has nailed something very well here. Hornby's football fandom is often at odds with his other circumstances

Which is not to say that there are not university educated middle-class football fans. I'm hardly going to say that.

But that during the earlier years of Hornby's acculturation into football, the fandom was much more strongly identified with working-class masculinity.

Some of Hornby's best writing in FP, imo, discusses the appeal of standing on the terraces as a young boy from a quiet middle-class female-dominated home.

The young Hornby's intoxication at being engulfed by noise, alochol, swearing and a certain type of masculinity are clear.

This pattern is repeated, via the fact that, as discussed over in the football thread, he's a fan of an unpopular team. Hornby explictly and implictly demonstrates that the 'no-one likes us, we don't care' aspect of his Arsenal fandom is incredibly important to him. Even among football fans, he's an outcast.

He experiences incomprehension even from his middle-class environments and even the football fans within in a way that he's probably helped to make impossible today. Negotiating this incomprehension is what makes FP interesting.

The contrasts that Hornby experiences and sets up between where his footballing and other 'lives' site him are what, in my opinion, make FP compelling, and as Haus notes, when these are missing, the spark, the awareness and critical faculty, go with them.

God forgive me, I'm actually thinking that I'd be very interested in reading Hornby back on football/updating Fever Pitch now.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
14:51 / 20.07.05
I'm thinking he might well do that, GGM, if it turns out A Long Way Down's stiffed* - see also Irvine Welsh revisiting past glories in Porno.

* Not sure if it has done, but it seems fairly likely given the subject matter - 'Nick, mate,' you can imagine his editor saying 'This all very well, suicide and that, but where are the blokes...'
 
 
Jack Fear
14:53 / 20.07.05
Well, the other thing is that football is football—that is, it is primarily if not wholly about nothing but itself; it comments on nothing. It has its history, but it is largely a self-contained history, barely brushed by the wider context.

I'm generalizing, of course, but the fact remains that engaging with football and fandom thereof is a far less daunting prospect than engaging in music fandom. Because songs tend to be about things—politics, relationships, history, film, literature, ideas—and music is vitally involved (in a way that football is not) in changes in society, technology, business and distribution models, a whole slew of other things.

It's in those connections to the broader context that Hornby falls down. Self-analytical he may be—if you're feeling charitable—but he seems remarkably unobservant, incapable of spotting allusions, identifying referents, and drawing connections.

Which, y'know, seem to me to be pretty serious shortcomings, for a writer.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:05 / 20.07.05
Well, the other thing is that football is football—that is, it is primarily if not wholly about nothing but itself; it comments on nothing. It has its history, but it is largely a self-contained history, barely brushed by the wider context.

That's very American of you, Jack. From Argentian 1978 to Heysel to Hillsborough, ID cards, New Order, USA vs Iran to Berlusconi, Sky TV annd 3G phones, football interleaves with history and society. Whether Hornby captures that is another question - in part, he is being self-consciously hermetic, and in part by supporting a team who were in the greater scheme of things not _that_ good for most of the period he covers he managed to avoid a context beyond the North Circular.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:42 / 20.07.05
Hornby references and explores repeatedly his possible personal and social motives for his 'self-conscious hermeticism'.

It's a part of his (slant on his) specific relationship to football *and* a device, Jack, not an absolute regarding football fandom.

music is vitally involved (in a way that football is not) in changes in society, technology, business and distribution models, a whole slew of other things.

No, they both contain this 'vital involvement'.

One could say that music is about nothing but the notes, composition and lyrics and has no impact beyond the experience of listening but that would be equally short-sighted and simplistic.

See here for a sample the breadth of experience of football fandom/the in way in which connection to football can involve a connection to/concern with the larger world. And here, for the beginnings of a more general discussion of how sport is involved in 'changes in society, technology, business and distribution models and a whole slew of other things'. (see also Haus' list of examples above.)
 
 
Cat Chant
11:19 / 25.07.05
I can see AAB might work on a YA level but I'm very loath... to assign writing I simply don't think is good to the YA category. Jacqueline Wilson and Mervyn Burgess both do this stuff so much better it's almost an insult to mention them...The description of the mother's mental health problems is appallingly broadly rendered/unrealistic. (agan, see JW and especially the Illustrated Mum for how to do this well)

Ooh, interesting. I won't derail this thread into a discussion of the Illustrated Mum and Jacqueline Wilson in general (new thread for that?). But I will say that the key difference, for me, between About A Boy and Illustrated Mum (which I love, but in a strangely cautious way as I feel like it's potentially an incredibly damaging book) is that in AAB the solutions all come from the (existing) characters and their interactions; in IM, Jacqueline Wilson brings on a benevolent and functioning Social Services department, a deeply loving and bending-the-rules-to-help foster mother, and an improbably perfect long-lost father to solve the children's problems - and there's a tension at the end (which I think is a flaw in the book, rather than a willed ambiguity to the resolution) between the everything's-going-to-be-all-right feeling and the fact that their mum has been sectioned and isn't going to be out of hospital any time soon. I do think that what Jacqueline Wilson is lacking, and what About A Boy has, is a realistic sense both of the autonomy and power of children and of the (institutional and other) limits to that autonomy and power.

(And of course you know I agree about not assigning bad writing to the YA category. I'm going to expand in the YA thread on what I think makes a book generically Young Adult, and why I like YA writing better, on the whole, than adult writing, which might shed some light on this - but in the meantime, I should just say that for me, saying something is a "very successful YA novel" actually means that I think it's better than the run of adult/ladlit/whatever novels.)
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
19:24 / 27.07.05
Interesting. I *think* I disagree quite strongly with yr sketches of the relative effects of Hornby and Wilson's notions of context and discourse around mental ill-health and family affect, but I'll go read 'em both and come back to you.

Also, it's perhaps a fault of mine for making the comparison, in that I'm not sure they're comparable in reception/audience terms. I think, from my half-remembered readings, that I'm dubious about AAB as YA, not only for the reasons I've outlined above but also because I think there's a difference here between narratives/texts that can be read as YA, and those that are positioned by their production as YA.

I'd argue that AAB is the first and not the second, I think.
 
 
Cat Chant
09:55 / 28.07.05
Yes, I'd agree with you about the difference & AAB not being positioned as YA - furthermore and too, I think Jacqueline Wilson is actually shelved as 8-12 (even Illustrated Mum, which is probably her "oldest" book in a lot of ways), so that does make a difference in terms of audience/reception. And would love to talk more about the AAB/ IM comparison - I'm not deeply invested in either book (they engage a lot of my stuff, but don't actually push my buttons) so the red mist won't descend or anything. Do you want to start a new thread when you've reread/feel like talking more about it? It could potentially broaden out into a wider discussion about literary depictions of mental illness (it would be interesting to bring the Dog in the Night-Time in too, as I really like the Aspergers-as-metaphor aspect of it while being totally able to understand those friends of mine with Aspergers relatives who hate it...)

Anyway, back to Hornby - eep, I have to be somewhere, so this is just a promise for an ontopic post about why How to Be Good is the most stupid book ever.
 
 
astrojax69
00:48 / 29.07.05
i thought 31 songs was a long-winded wank, but then our musical tastes differ significantly and i i ever wrote my own 31 songs, he'd prob'ly hate it too.. well, i didm't 'hate' it, just didn't finish it.

quite liked fever pitch, as i recall. thought it touched on something about what it was to be moved by sport - my s/o never understood that and tried to read FP but never got into it. mebbe there's a moral there somewhere.

anyway, hornby is fun, if not deep. worth a go.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:03 / 29.07.05
i thought 31 songs was a long-winded wank, but then our musical tastes differ significantly and i i ever wrote my own 31 songs, he'd prob'ly hate it too..

The definition of being a good music writer is being able to enthuse about something a given reader dislikes, or criticise something a given reader loves, and still make it an enjoyable and engaging read. The definition of being a bad music writer is boring or annoying even the readers who share the same tastes...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:14 / 05.10.05
Thanks must go to Whisky Priestess for bringing this to my attention:

STOP LYING HORNBY!

I said, "STOP LYING HORNBY!"

HOOOOOORNNNNNNBY!!!!! (Stop Lying)

"you, Hornby, are scared of life and energy. STOP LYING"
 
  

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