Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Books, Criticism & Writing >

The Culture - Utopia or Hell?

No star here laces

14:05 / 05.02.02

Iain M Banks...

So I think these are really interesting books. Particularly because the Culture would appear to be an almost universally acceptable secular utopia - everyone gets what they want, no-one has to work, death is conquered etc.

So why does it seem so hellish?

rizla mission

11:58 / 06.02.02

I don't think it really comes over as being hellish .. the books imply that the majority of Culture Citizens have a jolly nice time and basically live happily - but the stories naturally tend to concentrate on protagonists who are bored with the artificiality and safe-ness of the Culture (Cantact agents leaving to seek adventure elsewhere) or protagonists who feel alienated from it's society (aliens, human outsiders and people who've fought against the Culture).

Also, I think Banks has made clear on many occasions in the books that the culture is only a utopia in a material sense - negative emotions, disagreements and aggression are just as prevalent as in any other society.. hense unhappiness, despite the utopian conditions.

Jack Fear

12:04 / 06.02.02

It's back to Sartre, isn't it? NO EXIT: "Hell is other people."

'snot an uncommon literary device. Neil Gaiman's "The Golden Age" run on MIRACLEMAN explored the same theme: here's this fabulous world of undreamed opportunity and wonder--with normal, neurotic people plopped down into it.

No star here laces

10:34 / 07.02.02

I don't know - I think he's getting at some sort of spirituality/purpose ish.

Like this whole business about 'Subliming' where intelligences give up material form. And the stuff about how a 'perfect' AI will always sublime - an intelligence needs a cultural bias in order to want to exist in a material form.

Cultural bias --> material existence to me implies the necessity for a purpose. Hence why the Idirans and Chelgrians are painted in a semi-heroic light despite their actions being very negative - they have a clear purpose and an, if you will, spiritual reason for that purpose.

What is the culture's purpose? Why doesn't it all sublime?

Steve Block

12:34 / 07.02.02

The reason the culture doesn't sublime, I think, is because of two reasons. It is somewhat scared of what is on the other side, and more to the point, subliming means retreating from the raison d'etre of the culture, that of 'interfering' in world systems to bring about a better universe. It doesn't want to sublime itself to perfection, it wants to create perfection where it is. I think there was a hint at the end of Look To Windward that either the culture had sublimed or been wiped out.

For Banks' essay on the culture, check out A Few Notes On The Culture

and also see The Culture Is The Answer

Add Your Reply