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SBR - Recognizing Paedophilic Grooming and Taking Action to Protect

 
  

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Papess
03:47 / 21.07.07
I feel sick to my stomach. I have moved closer to my parents so that we (my son and I) can be near family, since all my son has is me. I need some support too. I would like to have the support of a loving family so that I can do my studies and my son won't be so alone while I am trying to get educated and give us a fighting chance in this world. It would be great to rely on my family, but there are these old ghosts coming back to life.

My mother's best friend has a son who about fifty years old. He has a lovely, overly accommodating wife who is servile to my mom's best friend. That is another situation. I am most concerned for my son. Before I even moved, the offer of this couple "helping me out and taking (my son) off my hands for a night once in a while", was offered. I instantly said to my mom, "I'll be the judge of that mom. Please don't ever do that without my permission." I just got this knot in my stomach. That was over 3 months ago. Now, after being invited over for BBQ and listening to him talk (see my post here for more details), and how he behaves and thinks, I am appalled and afraid.

One particular incident at one of this couple's BBQ particularly that sent up red flags for me was in regarding another person's daughter. Maybe I am "overly sensitive" as my mom would tell me, but I saw him making the twelve year old daughter of his good friend, very, very uncomfortable.

I saw him trying to hug her, a number of times. He wasn't that friendly with anyone else. I overheard him say "What? You too old now to give your Uncle a hug?". I felt helpless to do anything. Her father was close by, but he didn't say anything. She was squirming to get away as this was not the first time he had tried to hug her in this way that night. At one point, he looked up at me while he was visibly forcing himself on her in front of everyone! Could he be gaging my reaction? I had a look of frozen horror on my face, I am certain.

Is it not reasonable for a fully grown man to understand that as a little girl approaches adolescence she is not likely to want to have the same kind of physical contact? AM I wrong to think that? What is normal here. I am not really a good judge of this, because I am quite broken this way. Maybe I am projecting this onto him for some reason?

He does constantly mention to my son about spending the night at his place, (also his wife's home, but still). However, I am worried that this may get out of hand. Just asking and setting up this idea in my son's head - about how much fun he will have when he comes over - and even using his granddaughter's friendship with my son to entice him, may make it very hard to explain to my son why he cannot go. It also makes me very uncomfortable how he tries to butt in and parent my son without asking me if I need his assistance first.

His grandaughter has that funny look too. I get that weird feeling from her that someone isn't being appropriate with her. This guy, her granddad, is always talking about how much she overeats. She is only five years old.

I cannot talk about his with my mom and dad. I f**king remember well the reaction I got when I revealled someone had actually abused me.(Try a slap across the face , a lecture of what a piece of shit I am, and getting tossed out of the house). I a terrified that one day they will leave my son alone with this guy because they are so much in denial. This is like reliving my own experiences, except, maybe, this time I can stop it before it happens.

That is part of the trouble of this problem. You just can't prove anything until the worst happens most times. The scars are invisible, and the pain invalidated. I cannot recall how many times my parents have told me "Just get over it! It happened so long ago. Will ever just move on?" or "Why do you always think about these things?"

Probably I could seek some help with an organization that deals with child sexual abuse. That will happen on Monday. I am also looking online for information, but most of it deals with internet grooming. Paedophiles are generally people who are close to the family, or even family. I know this. So, right now, I feel very, very f**king sick and scared. I sure as hell don't want my child to go through any of the private hell I have in my life. But how can I protect him without being seen as a nut-bar?

Oh dear, please no. Not this all over again.
Goddamn monsters.
 
 
HCE
05:41 / 21.07.07
Wow. I have no idea what to say except that if you are not comfortable having this person around your child, you don't owe anybody any explanation whatsoever.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:47 / 21.07.07
Bloody Hel.

Your only duty here is to your son. Fuck anyone else's finer feelings. Make it clear to your parents that your son is NOT to be left alone with this creepazoid under ANY circumstances, and that if this should happen while he is in their care you won't be leaving him with them anymore.

From what you describe, this man is at least a grade-A creep and at worst he's a child molestor. You might even want to have a quiet word with social services.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:52 / 21.07.07
An if that's the way he conducts himself wiht a 12 year old girl in public, I dread to think what he'd do in private.
 
 
Saturn's nod
08:55 / 21.07.07
Yeah, those monsters bite. Your instincts are good, trust them. People get into trouble when they deny what their good instinctive systems are telling them!

You are strong, and you can navigate this situation. You have all the resources you need to get the best possible outcome out of this situation, for you, and your son, and for all concerned. You and your son deserve to be safe. You are an adult now, and you are able to keep you and him safe.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
10:02 / 21.07.07
I think that next time this man treats that 12 year old girl in such a way you should go over and ask her if she could get you a drink and extricate her from the situation. You can communicate that you find his behaviour unacceptable and make it clear that you have noticed and will respond without talking to anyone (including him) about it. Saturn is absolutely right, you are an adult, you can absolutely handle this situation, you do not need to be scared by this particularly now. Your instincts are only the way that you pick up signals that you don't understand consciously.
 
 
Saturn's nod
10:11 / 21.07.07
That's such a good strategic suggestion, Anna. It's a really good idea to have things like that rehearsed so you can do the practiced thing and help break that situation even if you are having a flooding/terror experience inside.

all my son has is me. I need some support too.

I'm going to be really opinionated here, and lay out specific suggestions for what to do. Obviously I don't know the situation completely. I'm not an expert but I have some thoughts from my own experience and observations, and from some child safety stuff I've come into contact with through Quakers.

We all need support, I think human beings need to be embedded in social networks and if we don't have good networks we end up meshing our minds with the people we're encountering by happenstance. It's very important that you get a functioning support system set up. Don't leave it to chance whether you have appropriate, fun, supportive people you can trust, to hang out with for fun and talk with when things are rough.

You mention studying: a lot of colleges have good free counselling services, have you been there yet? Also you can sometimes get counselling though your GP. And remember that lots of nurses have excellent supportive skills, I know if I have to see practice nurses for other stuff I often feel pretty cared for afterwards! Other plug-in support systems include: church/spirituality groups, study groups, self-help groups, musician/artist collectives, aromatherapy massage or other complementary therapy training schools - get free massage as a volunteer body. There are a hundred ways to meet people, focus on meeting sane, safe, fun people and take your son along to the events too if that's what you need to do because these things need to work to meet our needs.

I think although it's ideal - and cheaper! - to have our support systems integrated in reciprocal friendships, getting professional help serves very well when you are setting out to build a new support network. Though as always, trust yourself - if you don't feel able to communicate well with your counsellor, it's not going to help. I think you have to look after your support needs first, because your son is depending on you. When you have good people you can trust, you can share that bond with your son so his circle of appropriate adults to look to widens as well.

But how can I protect him without being seen as a nut-bar?

1) You have to get it straight in your head. Like Venger's Spare Matt wrote over in the miserable thread: Trust your gut. Better safe and wrong than sorry and right. Protection >> being seen as a nutbar. You would probably want to be seen as a nutbar by the kind of people you're afraid these people are, no?

This links directly to you having a good support network. I think you need to be in daily face to face contact with people who are sane and competent and are going to back you up and help you know that you are sane. Get that sorted out as a matter of urgency.

2) There are important things you can do to help your child be safe.

* Make sure he knows that his body belongs to him, and that he gets to say what happens to it. No being coerced into kissing relatives if he doesn't to, get prepared to fight over it to defend him if necessary and especially if you were never given that protection as a child. It's my opinion this is the ground for a healthy sense of ownership of one's own body.

* Make sure he has words to talk about, and an understanding of, appropriate and inappropriate touching. I think all human beings have a need for affectionate touching, we're primates! Make sure that need is met, in you and in your son, and there won't be a danger of seeking out inappropriate touching to make up for basic skin hunger.

* Make sure he knows and has words to talk about the existence of people who get thrills from inappropriate (sexual or other) behaviour. 'Kids are far too young to be involved in that stuff.' 'Not all adults know what's right, sometimes you have to be the one who gets out of a situation that feels wrong to you.' 'Some adults are a bit ill in their heads and they like to make people feel uncomfortable. It's okay to avoid them! Make sure you tell me if someone's making you feel like that.'

* Make sure he knows that he has instincts about other humans and that those instincts are providing good information, to be trusted and put together with all the other kinds of information available. Make sure he has appropriate words with which to communicate a dislike of, or a discomfort in being around, another adult, and a safe place with you to communicate about that if he needs to.

* You might find you have a good internal 'grooming alarm': does something particular occur in your mind or body when someone's making an approach to you when actually they want something from you that's not declared? I get a good strong signal from salespeople e.g. in a mobile phone shop, when they're busy nicing you to soften you up right? If you have that properly calibrated, can you articulate and pass on that knowledge to your son?

Other resources:

I'm glad you're looking for an organisation that might be able to help out in this situation, that sounds great. Will you post back about what kinds of resources you find? I'd be interested.

One book that comes to mind is Gavin de Becker's 'Protecting the gift', have you come across that? His work is all about appropriate threat assessment, and 'Protecting the gift' is particularly about helping kids be safe. There are also books to read with kids about being safe: 'My mom says' (thumbnail top right) is one for toddlers, there are probably loads more.

Good luck, keep letting us know how it is going.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:02 / 21.07.07
if you are not comfortable having this person around your child, you don't owe anybody any explanation whatsoever

I think gourami's got it spot on there.
 
 
Tsuga
12:32 / 21.07.07
It is utterly right and fine to keep your child from anyone you feel uncomfortable with. I'll also echo Venger's Trust your gut. Better safe and wrong than sorry and right. Fucking-a right, as they say. Whether the guy is a full-on abuser or not, anyone who tries to force themselves physically on another person who is uncomfortable with it is being a creep.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
13:37 / 21.07.07
I don't have any concrete suggestions other than what Anna and apt plutology and others have already said. But I am of the opinion that you are not a nutbar, and that you should totally trust your instinct. You don't have to explain your actions to anyone. This sounds like amreally difficult, and possibly long-term hard life thing you're facing. Best of luck with dealing with it.
 
 
Janean Patience
15:02 / 21.07.07
I am of the opinion that you are not a nutbar, and that you should totally trust your instinct. You don't have to explain your actions to anyone.

Yes, yes, yes. It isn't your job to explain and nobody would believe you. Nobody ever wants to believe that anyone could be an abuser. I've seen countless mothers in court taking the side of abusing stepfathers rather than their own children. It makes no sense but it's a big part of why this can continue to go on, and why abused children (who always tell someone) are never believed. Don't explain your actions at all. Trust yourself.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:17 / 21.07.07
Look, I may not know you very well, but I think I know you well enough to believe you know how to look after your son. I hope you are wrong, because if you're right then it's probably not just your son that's at risk here. But the point is, it DOESN'T ACTUALLY MATTER on this level whether you're right or not- your priority is to make sure the kid's okay. And Venger was right in the other thread- better wrong and safe than right and sorry. Every fucking time. FUCK family awkwardness, fuck it right in the eye sockets. If you think this guy should not be around your son, then he shouldn't be. Everything else is an afterthought.

(And for what it's worth, God willing I shall never have kids of my own, but if I DID, I think my reaction to what you've described would be pretty much identical).
 
 
This Sunday
15:23 / 21.07.07
Generally agree with everybody else, but it can't hurt to add one more vote of 'it's your call' and 'guy sounds like a total creep' to the pot. You have to follow your own analysis and judgement on these things. Anybody who demands explanations... Who the hell are they to demand such? Better them pissed than, well, even if he's not worse in private than he is in social situations, you've pretty much laid out an unappealing portrait of the fellow.
 
 
Papess
15:55 / 21.07.07
Thank you so much everyone, Anna and apt plutology, especially.

Currently, I am trying to access a child protection workshop, for both my son and myself. There is one offered by Big Brothers and others by the Children's Aid Society. Probably having someone else, as well as myself, talk to my son about how to protect himself is a good idea. Sometimes kids don't listen to their parents. Especially in my situation where my own parents (who are supposed to be helping me) are undermining me in front of my son.

So there are those two issues. I need help to stop the pattern of abuse as an adult, and I need to acquire the tools to protect my son, and teach him to protect himself.

Third problem: My parents, who are supposed to be helping, have no respect for requests I make. If I express my needs to them, or how I would like them to approach caretaking with my son, they are hostile and belittling. I may be strong, but inorder to keep peace, I am not allowed to express my opinions or needs. At least, not without being met with hostility. So, if I cannot rely on my family, and my close friends are not close by. So, I am going to have to network as much as possible to create relationships that are uplifting instead of oppressive. I will not be devasted and isolated. I need support from somewhere, and if my own family cannot give it to me - and I am beginning to wonder why I thought this was a good idea in the first place - then I will have to seek out support from strangers.

It makes little sense in some ways, because it is like I need strangers to protect my son and myself from my family. That feels so twisted to me. Sometimes, I feel terrified of everyone. Which, is why I need survivor counselling. The patterns repeat themselves, and there is no way that I want to continue this cycle of abuse in our family. It stops here.

I have a lot of work to do. Maybe there is some magickal work I can do as well. I know if in order to take the pressure of turning this around, I need spiritual nourishment to keep me strong. I think someone mentioned that upthread, and it is a very good point, indeed. I will address this more in the Temple at some point.
 
 
Papess
15:58 / 21.07.07
hope you are wrong, because if you're right then it's probably not just your son that's at risk here.

That sure eats away at me, Stoats.

And for what it is worth: Venger knows my son. He has been a big part of our life. Venger is quite often right.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:01 / 21.07.07
And for what it is worth: Venger knows my son. He has been a big part of our life. Venger is quite often right.

Remember that. It's important. If your family are failing you, you have your friends. In my experience (never anything like this, but I think it's a general principle) they're often better.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:09 / 21.07.07
One thing to bear in mind: If your family neglected their proper role in your defence as a child, you surely owe them no trust now. Dereliction of duty has its consequences, and one of them is not getting to be treated like the nice steadfast people they would like to believe themselves to be.
 
 
HCE
20:44 / 21.07.07
Dereliction of duty has its consequences, and one of them is not getting to be treated like the nice steadfast people they would like to believe themselves to be.

This is worth repeating.
 
 
Ticker
21:11 / 21.07.07
Medulla, I know personally that part of being a survivor of various childhood abuses comes with a larger than average dose of self doubt and fear of being perceived as crazy. If you need to 'get over' anything it would be the fear of being perceived as a hysteric by people who frankly are displaying denial and various self protective delusions.

If they cannot function with the information of your experiences and honor them appropriately, regardless of the role they played in those experiences, then they lose the right to comment on your experiences with anything approaching authority.

when we have experiences that jar us from the shared consensus reality we often come away with an insecurity about our own capacity for judgment. Our foundation beliefs do not often line up with those of people that have not had those experiences. However many people who do not have traumatic childhood experiences are capable of compassionate understanding and support of those of us that did. these are the people we use as sounding boards to help us filter our own experiences from the current moment at hand. They are quailified because they understand and accept our lens of perception.

Basically to be harsh for a moment, your parents by their unwillingness to honor the reality of your abuse and the forms of denial they employ create the potential for them to enable the abuse not only in your son's case but anyone. Turning a blind eye leaves a big ass oblivion hole. Not quailified caregivers by any stretch.

I do understand that your choices are limited for support and raising children on your own is pretty impossible without major detriment to everyone involved. However no support from them is better than the concern of their enabling a dangerous situation.

I'm curious if you have discussed your experiences in an age appropriate manner with your son? My mother did explain some of her experiences to me when I was a child and it did help a great deal to understand why certain situations caused her to react in not directly obvious ways.

Don't worry about being perceived as mentally unbalanced. Any reasonable person understands that in this day and age abuse of power is all too frequent and should be compassionate about a parent's desire to protect their child from at the very least overbearing over stepping adults. In fact I can't imagine an adult male not being open to dialogue about appropriate behavior, ok not any male I'd want in the vicinity of my family.

Empower your child, be kind to yourself, and as others have suggested improve your support network to include more adults that are actually supportive.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:53 / 21.07.07
on't worry about being perceived as mentally unbalanced. Any reasonable person understands that in this day and age abuse of power is all too frequent and should be compassionate about a parent's desire to protect their child from at the very least overbearing over stepping adults.

Very true. It's worth remembering that there are other, more subtle ways in which a child's boundaries can be transgressed, and that although not as horrendous as outright abuse these can be damaging too in their own way.

And don't worry about being thought unbalanced over this. The opinions of anyone who prioritises their own emotional comfort over the safety of a kid aren't worth worrying about.
 
 
Papess
00:03 / 22.07.07
anyone who prioritises their own emotional comfort over the safety of a kid aren't worth worrying about.

Yes. Alas, even my own.

I am going to have more information Monday night, as to what is available in my community. I talked to my son. I asked him how he felt about this person; if anything made him uncomfortable about this guy. My son said, "I don't like how he chews with his mouth open, and I don't like how he treats you." That rather caught me off gaurd. How he treats me? I suppose my son has recognized how uncomfortable I am around this guy. My son wouldn't elaborate and rather wanted to play with his robot.

I a going to build my support system outside my family and then deal with my parents once I have backup.

I really need my parents. My son really, really needs a family. I can't do everything. I can't be everywhere. My parents, as much as they cannot deal with the past, or the present for that matter, are all the family my son and I have.

This is a lot to deal with. I am going to have a cup of tea and try to relax.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
00:11 / 22.07.07
*sigh*

Barbelith, my friends, I am about to entrust to you something that has been eating away at me despite all my attempts to purge it.

I do not mean to take away from this thread, and if you think I am, please do ask the moderators to delete it. I think it would be better that way.

A few months ago, I learned that a trusted friend was a paedophile. I still have difficulty writing this because again, I considered him one of my best friends. I had known him since I was 14. He was two years older than I and I had never known him to exhibit the slightest tendency towards reprehensible behaviour. He was always very considerate and kind. But in hindsight now, I realise there may have been warning signs that I knew nothing about. He did seem to dote too much on his younger male cousins, encouraging drinking and drug use among them.

I had spoken to him on and off since I left my hometown. Just bits of catching up here and there. My parents were as friendly with him too, but after I left said hometown, they'd run into him now and again and discuss how I was doing.

Well, once moving somewhat permanently to Atlanta, I don't want it to be said that I forget old friends. But I do. I never kept in touch with him, despite my parents telling me to do so because I'd known him for so long. I tried, but really didn't have the heart. (Was it something instinctive inside myself that knew something was amiss? Or just getting older and moving on from the past? I dunno.) The last time I saw him was about three years ago. He was saying things that made me a bit uneasy about love and I laughed it off, thinking he was just drunk.

Cut to: my stepdad running into him at a gas station. My stepdad was all like, "Oh, _____, how are you doing? We haven't seen you in forever!" And my friend saying, "Well, I've joined AA and doing this and this, etc." My stepdad--being as awesome and guileless as he is--said, "Well, Kali's doing fine. Have you talked to her?" My friend said that he hadn't talked to me in years and my stepdad said he would forward my current number to him.

I talked to him once over this past Christmas holiday. He was telling me about how he had found God and a better path through AA. Slightly judging me because I still drank. Though he was the one who introduced me to drink in the first place. He sounded off and weird. But I didn't really think anything of it.

Cut to: my mom calling me at work a few weeks later. The guy I had known for half my life was busted for having a stash of child pornography unequaled in the state of South Carolina. The reason he got busted was because he picked up two minors, attempted to get them drunk, and have them enact sex acts on with each other and with him.

We all felt (feel) betrayed. This was someone we let into our home, trusted, knew, and now...honestly, Barbelith, this is the first I've written of it and it makes me so much more scared and wary of people I think I know. It also makes me fucking sick.

Trust your friends and yourself. Do not let anyone near child is what I think at this point.
 
 
Papess
00:17 / 22.07.07
XK, I feel like making my parents read your last post. Not that I would expect that to get through to them.

I'm curious if you have discussed your experiences in an age appropriate manner with your son?

You know, I just found out this past Christmas that my mother has some issues. All those years and she never reached out to me as one survivor to another.

Can you believe that I am actually worried that I have betrayed her confidence? Her fucking confidence!

Anyway, I may be off-topic, but I am really in need of an adult survivors thread. I don't give a rat's hairy behind if someone comes along and gets inappropriate. I will iggy them and move to ban the fucker, pronto. Got that trolls?
 
 
Papess
00:23 / 22.07.07
Kali, by all means, go ahead. Being silent about this stuff is damaging. I am glad you have shared, as we can learn much from your account.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
01:12 / 22.07.07
I try--and I still try--to pretend it isn't true. But it is. In glaring print. In that I see the police photo and know, KNOW, that is someone I told some of my own silly secrets to. The only one whom I've told about this, besides my own parents, is MattS, because he's my fiance' and he knows when I am too upset to talk.

I just don't understand, honestly. How can someone I thought I knew turn out to be like this?
 
 
Papess
03:03 / 22.07.07
Kali, that is one of the most insidious aspects of child sexual abuse. The predators have to look like "nice people". They cannot be too scary or else what child would trust them? What parent or youth organization would allow them to work the kids? How would they get to coach little league? I understand your shock, but it comparable to how close most victims and their family are to the abusers, and the shock they must feel, too.

Hugs, BTW, Kali. It is a harsh reality. I bet you feel violated in some ways, and I wouldn't blame you. You trusted them. Of course, it is not the same as being abused and violated in that way, (not equating these things, people!), but I bet you and possibly other people you know worried and reflected frantically about who you knew that he may have had the opportunity to abuse.

There is a growing understanding that sexual abusers are likely to be people we know, and could well be people we care about; after all more than 8 out of 10 children who are sexually abused know their abuser. They are family members or friends, neighbours or babysitters - many hold responsible positions in society. Some people who abuse children have adult sexual relationships and are not solely, or even mainly, sexually interested in children. Abusers come from all classes, racial and religious backgrounds and may be homosexual or heterosexual. Most abusers are men, but some are women. You cannot pick an abuser out in a crowd.

That entire site is very informative.

I struggle here with what to do with such heinous individuals. I want to believe they can be reformed. I was very close to two of the people who abused me, and I loved them. They messed me up, but I so desparately want there to be a chance for them. There is another side that just feels unable to trust them or anyone for that matter, and wants to make them pay, slowly and painfully.

There are theories, I believe, that paedophiles cannot be rehabilitated. I wonder. It is not so much that at all, even. For me, it wouldn't even matter if they were certified normal with rubber stamp on their forehead. Could I ever really trust them again? Would anyone who knew and had kids trust them?

There is a part of me that wants castration for sex crimes, child sexual abuse, most especially. UNfortunately, it wouldn't even solve the problem. It also goes against some other principles that I have. However, I think those principles would all crumble to bits if someone hurt my boy.
 
 
Papess
03:35 / 22.07.07
From the American faction of Stop It Now!, the UK site linked to above.

Do you know an adult or older child who:

-Makes others uncomfortable by ignoring social, emotional or physical boundaries or limits?

-Refuses to let a child set any of his or her own limits?

-Uses teasing or belittling language to keep a child from setting a limit?

-Insists on hugging, touching, kissing, tickling, wrestling with or holding a child even when the child does not want this physical contact or attention?

-Turns to a child for emotional or physical comfort by sharing personal or private information or activities, normally shared with adults?

-Frequently points out sexual images or tells dirty or suggestive jokes with children present?

-Exposes a child to adult sexual interactions without apparent concern?

-Has secret interactions with teens or children (e.g. games, sharing drugs, alcohol, or sexual material) or spends excessive time to emailing, text messaging or calling children or youth

-Is overly interested in the sexuality of a particular child or teen (e.g., talks repeatedly about the child's developing body or interferes with normal teen dating)?
Insists on or manages to spend uninterrupted time alone with a child?

-Seems “too good to be true, i.e. frequently baby sits different children for free; takes children on special outings alone; buys children gifts or gives them money for no apparent reason?

-Frequently walks in on children/teens in the bathroom?
Allows children or teens to consistently get away with inappropriate behaviors?

Damn. I am right if I go by this.
 
 
This Sunday
04:06 / 22.07.07
In terms of exposing children to sexual interactions? Or dirty jokes? I know a lot more of my non-Native friends/acquaintances that were at some point shocked to realize their parents had sex, or that sexual elements existed in X, than I do among my NA friends/acquaintances. Not much to do with sexual abuse, so much as it's just... I don't know many Indians who grew up with 'make you blind' or 'make you frigid' masturbation myths, either, compared to non-Native people I've talked about it with. I think sexual awareness is more a cultural matter and don't see that it encourages someone to attack, use, or otherwise injure and dehumanize somebody else. Every culture probably finds a way for adults to have sex even if there are children somewhere in the house, and every culture usually has a way of letting kids play doctor or whatever, it's just a matter how much, and what aspects, that society decides should be admitted to, hidden away, or whatever.

The rest of the list I agree with much more quickly, and, excising the 'child' from many of them, from the belittling language as control to insisting on unwanted embraces, is just classic sexually-abusive all over. It's that aspect, the invasive, the unwanted being forced, that I find the most telling. Especially if they try to downplay or excuse it with a laughing dismissal.
 
 
*
06:01 / 22.07.07
Everything I have to say has been covered; just seconding or fiftythirding—your instincts are good, you don't sound like you're overreacting.

Just want to reiterate, though—make sure your son knows he can talk to you about this kind of thing. You know what kind of reaction would have been helpful to you; make sure he knows he'll get a helpful reaction from you and not the kind of reaction he might fear. I think that's the single most effective prevention—open communication. I believe abusers are much less likely to target kids who are able to make it clear that they're going to report the abuse.
 
 
Saturn's nod
08:59 / 22.07.07
More from the Stop It Now! uk/eire website linked above.

There are things we can all do to prevent the sexual abuse of children. Sometimes a person outside the child's immediate family has a clearer view of what is going on than those more closely involved.


1. Be aware of the warning signs that someone we know may have a sexual interest in children and seek help if we are worried.

Make sure we understand the signs listed here so that we are aware of what to look out for at an early stage. If we think someone we know has a sexual interest in or may be abusing a child, seek professional help. Don't keep it a secret.

2. Talk to children, and listen to what they have to say

People who sexually abuse children rely on secrecy. They try to silence children and to build trust with adults, counting on us to be silent if we have doubts. The first step to tackling this secrecy is to develop an open and trusting relationship with our children. This means listening carefully to their fears and concerns and letting them know they should not worry about telling us anything. It is important to talk with them about sex, and to be comfortable using the words they may need.

3. Demonstrate to children that it is all right to say 'no'

Teach children when it is OK to say 'no', for example when they do not want to play, or be tickled, hugged or kissed. Help them to understand what is unacceptable behaviour and that they must always tell us if someone is behaving in a way which worries them, even if they were unable to say no at the time.

4. Set and respect family boundaries

Make sure that all members of the family have rights to privacy in dressing, bathing, sleeping and other personal activities. Even young children should be listened to and their preferences respected.

5. Take sensible precautions about whom we choose to take care of our children

Be careful about who children are left with. Find out as much as we can about baby-sitters and don't leave our child with anyone we have reservations about. If our child is unhappy about being cared for by a particular adult, talk to the child about the reasons for this.
 
 
alas
16:16 / 22.07.07
Good luck Medulla. It sounds like it might be better if you were actually farther from your family, and closer to an old-friends network, if you can in any way manage another move. Keep talking to your son, and keep emphasizing things like:
Teach children when it is OK to say 'no', for example when they do not want to play, or be tickled, hugged or kissed. Help them to understand what is unacceptable behaviour and that they must always tell us if someone is behaving in a way which worries them, even if they were unable to say no at the time.

And especially make sure you say very clearly to him that if any adult ever does something to him he does not like or that feels uncomfortable, and then demands that he keep it a secret, that he should tell you right away. Even if the child "promises" that adult he won't tell, or if the adult seems to be threatening to tell on him, or something. I'd have a long talk with the child about this.

I'd also emaphasize, however, that most adults are NOT pedophiles; there's no need to make him feel totally paranoid and afraid, but, in fact, empowered to make judgments. Life is complicated but also beautiful, and these bad people really need some serious help from people who are trained to help them; by 'telling on them,' even by breaking a "promise" not to tell, children are being heroes--they are doing the right thing, and no matter what little thing the adult might be threatening to blackmail them with, they can feel brave and courageous simply by telling someone they trust about the adult's behavior and what they don't like. Even if it feels hard and kind of scary to do so.

I often talked to my kids about which adults they trusted, and which ones they didn't. They have pretty good instincts, and it's clear that you can help your child to build on his good instincts.

Pedophiles are damaged people; we can feel sorry for them, we can even like them, but we, ourselves, can't really help them except by getting them away from children and outing their behavior to the proper authorities. If we can do so in a spirit of concern and compassion rather than hatred, that's good, but abject fear and anger is totally understandable and appropriate. Good luck!
 
 
Papess
01:44 / 26.07.07
So far, I let my son know what I think of this creepy-friend-of-the-family. I just told my son how this guy makes me feel. It is important for my son to understand if I make decisions about not going to their place, or going out with them, in order for my boy not to overreact out of ignorance.

In fact, I had to make a split descision the other night when we were invited over and I said we have other plans. Those plans (since I had not spoken to my son, yet) had to be something that would beat out going to Jerk's place because at this point, my son wouldn't really understand why I was saying no. Instead, I announced we were going to go and visit our neighbour and her kids, who have a trampoline, (that beats visiting Santa Claus, from what I can tell). So, my son didn't get upset and beg to go out with my mom and dad to this jerk's house. My parent's would only be angry with me...it gets complicated.

Anyway, I told him after they left why I didn't want to go - because this guy makes me uncomfortable. I even took him to a few websites we have linked upthread so that he could understand grooming better. Also, so that he could realize that it is okay for parents to want to protect their kids in this manner, and mommy isn't over-reacting. He really understood that I just want to protect him and he threw his arms around me and said "I love you mommy", and then we went to the neighbour's house. I rather explained the situation to her a bit, and she said "No problem, anytime you need to use me as an excuse for that, I don't mind". Fabulous, eh? She gave me a glass of wine and we sat and talked and watched our kids play.
 
 
electric monk
02:04 / 26.07.07
Medulla, you are a fabulous person and one hell of a great mom.

And I had to wipe away a tear of joy or two as I read your post. Thank you for sharing all this with us!
 
 
Leigh Monster loses its cool
03:39 / 26.07.07
Wow. If only all parents had the guts to talk their kids so honestly and straightforwardly--about anything, let alone something as scary and uncomfortable as that. You really are an amazing parent.
 
 
iamus
08:36 / 26.07.07
Goddamn right.

If everybody was as smart as that Medulla, there'd be a hell of a lot less heartache and pain in the world. Well done you.
 
  

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