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Making a case for collectible card games

 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
15:04 / 10.07.07
There don't seem to be any dedicated threads on CCGs here, so I guess I'm going to claim Geek Crown of Barbelith, at least momentarily:

I love collectible card games.

Disclaimer, off the bat: I hate collecting collectible card games. I think the entire "speculation/rarity/completionist" structure is nasty, a cynical and manipulative attempt to suck money out of people's pockets.

Any "mature" collectible card or miniatures game is going to have people building decks/armies using the entire breadth of the series with no regard for rarity (they buy/trade for what they need), so at that point the rarity aspect is moot.

Disclaimer II: I'm not in the tournament circuit. I live in a small(ish) town in Quebec and I have not the money, nor time, nor inclination to travel to Montreal and do tournaments with people that obsess over deck structure and the percentage odds of drawing a Hymn to Tourach in their first seven-card draw. Some of them are fantastic guys, don't get me wrong, but I have other priorities in life that exclude dedicating entire days to card tournaments.

With those two things in mind, I repeat: I love collectible card games.

While the "rarity" system sucks in terms of cynical money-grabs and artificial ways to manipulate the nerdy completionist, it has produced a level of game design that is stratospherically beyond anything else in terms of card-only games or "light" themed wargaming. What were your choices for card games before Magic: The Gathering exploded? You had regular cards, Mille Bornes, Uno... then I start to falter. The brilliance of Magic (and, arguably, of the structured system of less powerful "common" cards and more powerful "rarer" cards) was that this was a deep game, as strategic as most light wargames on the market, but you could fit it into a box the size of -- well, of a deck of cards -- and carry it in your pocket. A game took less than 15 minutes, usually, and was good goofy fun.

At the risk of stating the obvious, but for the benefit of the totally unitiated, the mechanics of a basic CCG are as follows: each player has a deck. You usually start with a hand full of cards and draw more every turn.

Cards are (usually) divided into three broad categories, creatures, non-creatures, and resources. You play resources to the table (in Magic, it's various kinds of land, that produce resources of different "colours") from your hand, and use those resources to "pay" for creatures and non-creatures you play from your hand. The more resources you have on the table, the more powerful the cards you can play. Creatures are there to attack your opponent (or your opponent's creatures); other cards either modify your creatures, your opponent's creatures, or have some sort of general effect.

There's actually a reasonable Magic-type Flash game (minus the layer of complexity that the resource cards and the use of them provide) here.

Of course, the cards all affect each other, too. In Magic, a black monster you bring to the table might also have the effect of making it easier to play red monsters to the table. A spell card might do damage to all green creatures on the board, or just your opponent's flying creatures, or to your opponent directly. A blue spell might make it such that red creatures cannot attack.

And the creatures themselves have attributes -- they fly, they trample, they phase, they each have their own attack and defense values. What looks like a simple card game on a broad fantasy theme is really a very complex system.

You've got broad strategy: how you build your deck. Do you opt for few resources and lots of "cheap" cards and effects to overwhelm? More resources and heavy hitters to crush? Tricky decks, which rely on affecting your opponent's hand and deck to succeed? A single-colour deck, which makes it easy to have the resources you need, or a dual-colour deck, which gives you more cards to choose from but may make it impossible to play what you need when you need it?

You've got tactics: which creatures attack when, when you play a certain card to affect the outcome of a fight, which creatures to help, which to hinder.

You've got resource management: which resources to allocate to which cards, when to hold some resources in reserve for last-minute changes of plan, etc.

So back in the early '90s, this "Magic" game popped up out of nowhere and created a niche -- the strategy card game, something that scratched a "real" gaming brain-itch but did it in less than 15 minutes and could be played anywhere.

And the perverse reason this game worked so well was because of this horrible "collectible" element -- the creators of the game had to create scores of differnt cards, hundreds of them, to generate "rarity." And they had to ensure that the game was balanced, so one colour didn't just cream all the others routinely. And then they had to keep releasing new sets of cards (and phasing out old ones) to keep the game fresh, before the munchkins could boil the game down to three or four "perfect" decks.

Which is why I got out of Magic and sold all my cards around '96 -- I couldn't afford to keep up. Had I kept those cards I would be a richer man today, but what the hell.

And after Magic, came the tide. Netrunner, Doomlands, Mythos (the first Cthulhu CCG -- I'll get back to this), Lord of the Five Rings, Rifts, Star Wars, and I could just keep typing. Loads of new games, some just copycats, some with some brilliant new mechanics that improved on Magic.

Magic stayed top dog, though, dominating the market and crushing all competitors.

The bad side to that is that Magic is kind of the Microsoft of card games -- ubiquitous and a bit vanilla.

The good side is that there are better CCGs out there that Magic drove off the shelves that you can now pick up ridiculously cheap.

My current obsession is Call of Cthulhu, a CCG put out by Fantasy Flight in '04/'05 and discontinued last year. I picked up a box of starters and boosters (games are usually sold in "starter" boxes, which are more cards but with fewer rares overall, plus the rules and whatever else you need to play, and "boosters," which are fewer cards with more rares per capita but no other stuff) on the cheap and set to. And it is a great danged game. Fun, atmospheric, interesting. Rather than clobbering the other player directly, you control "factions" within the mythos -- any of four cults of Great Old One worshippers, or the Academy (scholars), Syndicate (mob), or Agency (police/government), and fight over "stories" in the middle of the table. If you win a certain number of struggles over a story, it becomes yours, and if you win three stories, you win the game.

Again -- lots and lots of subtlety. Story struggles break down into phases, in which creatures can be driven mad or killed outright; there is lots of attention paid to resource allocation, which is done with "regular" cards that you turn on their heads to make them resources (instead of having dedicated resource cards like most other systems have).

Since CCGs have huge and dedicated fan communities, I've also outsourced a lot of the thinking about what to do with all these cards -- through BoardGameGeek and the Call of Cthulhu boards, I have a couple of guys helping me turn this pile of assorted cards into a "stable" game of three or four decks that I can sit down and play with a friend when I feel like it.

But there are loads of CCGs that are ridiculously cheap, and out of production and therefore "complete," so you don't have to worry about updates and cards being "phased out." I've just ordered a two booster boxes of the commercially-tanked game Hecatomb, in which you and your opponent are evil bastards trying to end the universe and fighting over who has the right to pull the final plug. It failed because it was complex, ill-supported promotionally, and ridiculously over-the-top dark, which sounds like it'll be right up my alley. Two boxes of cards for $16 U.S., which should be enough to build a few decks and have a good time. While browsing the store I saw they had a box of starters for Rifts, another old RPG favourite, for $6, so what the heck. Even with punishing shipping charges to Canada, it's about $50 for hundreds and hundreds of hours of game time.

On the miniatures end, a friend and I picked up a starter and booster each last wekeend for a game called Dreamblade, and spend the afternoon bashing around with it. TONS of fun -- you control weird monsters that fight in the "dreamscape," in sort of a combination of a light wargame and chess, with lots of dice-rolling and -- as is the hallmark of these things -- interlinking effects. Dreamblade is my first CMG, and my interest was spurred in it being described as "a good board game with miniatures, not a CCG with miniatures" -- and it is. It's fun, interesting, and doesn't need tons of varied figurines to work as a game. But the itch, the collectible itch, it's itching. May need to be scratched with a booster or two...

So yeah. That's CCGs in a nutshell. They take lot of flak, because kids play 'em, because they attract obsessive fanboys, because they feature pictures of Drizzt D'u'rden and his Crystal Dragon, because they gouge money from the pockets of the weak-minded, because they're, well, not video games.

But I'd suggest that the obnoxious quality of these games (rarity/collectibility) pushed the designers into making them more interesting, deeper, and more varied than any card games that came before them. Granted, they're supported by a base of rabid sweaty fanboys, but given that Barbelith has a huge comics-reading community, I don't think we can call the kettle very black there.

There are a few really cool-looking ones out there I'd love to try -- Shadowfist springs to mind -- but I just don't have the time/budget to pick up anything that isn't discontinued and that continues to grow.

And given the vast number of discontinued and extraordinarily cheap games out there, I'd encourage people to give them a try. You can play most games "out of the box" with a starter deck (if you wanted to give any game a try, find somebody to play with and buy a starter each, and don't commit to buying more ever -- then see how long you can hold out). Personally, I'm enjoying buying the discontinued games en masse because then I can rip all them packages open and explore and chortle merrily.

There's at least as much strategy and planning as in your standard PS2 RPG, and these games actually involve sitting down with another live hu-man and having conversations. Which is, on balance, usually a good thing, yes?
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
15:27 / 10.07.07
The same problem I have with CCG's like Magic is the same problem I have with table top wargames like The Games Workshop produce - they are aimed primarily at extracting as much money from those (ususally young) fans who are excited and intense about the game. My younger brother (11) collects Pokemon cards just to collect them now; he used to play Yugiho(sp?) but has collected Pokemon for the last four or five years. However, he never plays. Even when I try to convince him to, he just isn't interested. The catchphrase must have got to him.

This bothers me - not playing something he clearly loves removes like 90% of the enjoyment from the game. However, I also understand. For him Pokemon fuels his (tiny compared to mine) geek side. He loves the intracacy and worth of the cards, which is something I enjoy in all my geek pursuits, but his being a rather "cool kid" at school prevents him from even wanting to geek out too much. I understand this, but it makes me sad.

On a positive note I fucking love Heroclix, and Horrorclix, because they remind me of my table top games, but look good and don't involve playing.

Also; being a mythos lover, I'd love to know where you picked up this CoC game from Randy? Can you get it cheap off the internet, or did you buy it in a stockist?
 
 
All Acting Regiment
20:11 / 10.07.07
An argument I've heard against these games is that they encourage kids to buy pre-defined products and pieces from a corporation (they have to use the "official" peices) rather than make up their own card games - but did kids ever make up their own card games?
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
21:02 / 10.07.07
There's a DEFINITE greed/rarity/value/possessiveness quality to these games that I think is bad for little kids. Period. The kids with more disposable income will have better cards. Sharper kids swindle slower kids out of the best cards. I had a friend who was vice-principal at an elementary school, and they instituted a ban on the Pokemon card game -- not because of the game itself, but because of the culture of greed and jealousy and nasty fighting that it brought with it.

So the collectible thing plus little kids sucks. If kids were interested in the game and their parents got involved and set reasonable limits, that might work.

As far as "making up games" goes, though, the most I can recall is the occasional weird card rule in Crazy Eights.

Given that I spent countless hours of my first several years of high school sitting in the caf playing Euchre or Asshole/Ditchdigger, I can wholeheartedly say that these games are better: smarter, more intricate, more encouraging of lateral thinking.

And a sight better than an XBox or PS3 or Wii or anything that keeps you staring at a screen instead of another human being.

I forgot to mention above that there are later games that combine card mechanics but aren't collectible... Blue Moon springs to mind; it has fixed decks of different "tribes" you can play, and also has the ability to custom-construct decks if you want using various tribes. They built off the Magic mechanic; Blue Moon (the one I own) is pretty good. It's not as deep or interesting as a CCG with several hundred card types, though -- and not nearly as cheap as a defunct CCG.

Jaws, I bought the CoC at a local game store that was clearing them out a few months after the game was officially discontinued. Apparently, FFG will be continuing to release fixed sets of cards -- not collectible -- to expand the game.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
21:03 / 10.07.07
did kids ever make up their own card games?

I'm not sure - I think that part of the point of collectible card games is the scarcity of supply. Your Emperor Dalek is only worth something if your wee pal can't draw himself a card with THE EMPEROR DALEK'S DAD on it. (First thing that came to mind was Doctor Who Top Trumps. Not exactly the topic under discussion, but similar rules apply)

I've been enjoying the not-too-collectible Blue Moon over the last few months -it's superbly balanced, and each different set encourages you to play differently. Another aspect of it that I like is that you're not collecting different sets to augment your current hand - there are only two sets in play (yours and that belonging to your opponent) - so you're collecting sets that fundamentally change the way the (your) game is played.
 
 
Quantum
19:00 / 11.07.07
Here's an MtG thread.

I despised Magic when it hit, but last year got into it (now it's cheap). I only play with my housemates TBH, because they won't debate the rules for ages and whether a double striking goblin will kill a first striking elf or whatever. Sane, adult players. (OTOH, Munchkin is really funny)
I find building the decks as much fun as playing, I play them to test them out and tart them up. Acting out the attacks makes it more fun too (My Goblins all attack you GRAARGH!)
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
19:18 / 11.07.07
For the love of God, I even posted to that thread. Twice. My brain SUCKS! But a general CCG thread isn't a bad idea anyway.
 
 
Feverfew
19:30 / 11.07.07
On the bright side, that Flash game does allow me to use the sentence Ninjas Killed My Leprechaun!
 
 
All Acting Regiment
22:43 / 11.07.07
Then stood at the end of the rainbow, looking at the gold, and feeling a bit sad.

Do any parents have any feelings about their kids playing CCGs - or supposing you had kids, how would you sort it out? Or would you?

The reason I ask these questions is because I want to work out whether the greed dynamic we've talked about is a real and serious problem, or if I should shut up.
 
 
Triplets
23:44 / 11.07.07
Allecto, please define what you mean by greed in this context. Greed for completeness? Greed for victory and bragging rights over one's mates and fellow players? Greed for rare cards? Greed for all of these? Greed for cake? As Matthlete points out, via Brother of Mattlete, one can have greed/obsessiveness for one facet in particular.

Are CCCgs in general, and Pokémon in particular, designed to exploit this? Well... first I'd like you to define this greed and then I'll grace you with a few verses from the Pokérap.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
00:14 / 12.07.07
I think I brought "greed" up first, actually -- in my head, kind of a blend of coveting the cards other kids have, and wanting to have more valuable cards for yourself. This isn't unique to CCGs -- I used to work at a used bookstore that also sold comics, trading (sports) cards and Magic cards, and it's just as rife among pretty much any hobby.

Pokémon was brought up not because it's better/worse than other games in this respect, just because that game (due to the age it was targeted at, and the popularity at the time) was the problem at his school among the 7-to-12-year-olds.

Side note: I would LOVE to try the Bleach CCG at some point, but it doesn't seem to be available affordably much of anywhere in North America. Is it easily obtainable across the pond?
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
00:23 / 12.07.07
Oh -- I didn't exactly answer the question, did I? Sorry.

The "are they designed to exploit this" thing is tricky. But it seems pretty obvious that the main reason to have rare cards and common cards, sorted such that there are 5-6 common cards for every rare card in a booster pack, is to sell more booster packs; effectively, to collect an entire set, you will wind up with 5-6 of every common card for each rare you require. More, due to the random sorting that goes into these packs.

The rare cards are (often) the cards that win the games, too. So to be competitive at the game (unless you are playing in a "stable" environment; say a group of friends that agrees to buy one starter deck each, play with those, and then buy one booster each at a time by consensus; then your competitive ability is determined by both skill and luck in terms of how well the random cards you buy get "themed") you need to buy more booster packs, to have more rare cards, to have the oomph you need to win at the game.

Compare to the abovementioned Blue Moon, which uses the same basic mechanics as a CCG but comes in pre-set decks with no rarity structure. I'd argue that the design of the CCGs has to be a bit better, to ensure balance for infinite card combinations, but nobody is ever going to buy thirty-three Blue Moon decks looking for the one card they need to complete the deck they want.
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
14:08 / 12.07.07
I'd like to point out that my little brother, Liam, hasn't really shown any of the greed culture that others feel permiates the ccg culture, esp. pokemon. He has been ripped off by other kids though, but this generally sorts itself out in the playground. The children who behave badly get taken out of the Bobby De Niro style circle of trust. Or they gte chinese burns.
 
 
Tom Paine's Bones
18:16 / 13.07.07
Also, is the subject of greed with collectibles actually new, or is it just a new form of an old hobby.

How does something like Pokemon cause this more than football sticker albums?
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
11:53 / 08.08.07
Following up on this thread after a bit of an absence.

In the strict "collector" sense, like the abovementioned little brother that doesn't play with his Pokemon cards but likes to acquire them, there's no tangible difference between having more/rarer/better cards than football stickers, or bubble gum cards*, or whatnot. Although I put more inherent value in the Pokemon cards, because you can actually do something with them.

But if you're playing with your cards, the acquisition drive kicks into overkill because you get a competitive advantage from the rarer cards. Almost universally in CCGs**, the rarer a card, the more powerful and/or broad-scoped it is, and therefore somebody with more rare cards will have better opportunities to build fine-tuned or killer decks than people with less rare cards. So it's one thing for a kid to have Pikachu and say "I have Pikachu and you don't, neener neener" and another for a kid to have Pikachu and use Pikachu to kick your ass at Pokemon.

Side note: I can't surf their archives as I'm at work, but one of the Penny Arcade guys went to a kiddie Pokemon tournament a few weeks back and blogged about it, and said what impressed him the most was the good sportsmanship that the kids had -- win or lose, they'd shake hands, congratulate each other on a game well played, tell the loser that it was just a run of bad luck, etc. So there's something to be said there.

But I initially returned to this thread to say that I got the boxes of Hecatomb that I ordered, and the game *&?% ROCKS. I can't believe it died on the vine! Actually I can -- it's ridiculously OTT dark (lots of art by artists like Ben Templesmith, who hold no bars with the weird imagery and gory imagination) and downright blasphemous, compared to the squeak-under-the-parental-radar Magic and other games.

But Hecatomb is tons of fun. Instead of sending critter with enchantments on them out into the field of battle, you "stitch" your minions together to create stacked "abominations" (the cards are oversized and five-sided with transparent sections, so each minion in an abomination stack changes how the whole abomination behaves). The mana system follows the "mana rejects" system used in other games -- rather than have individual land cards, you use turned-over game cards as "land" of that colour.

Fun! Light enough to rock out with in a half-hour, deep enough that you get some real strategy going. If any of you pass by a game shop and see a dusty box of boosters on a discount shelf, I thoroughly recommend it. You don't need anything but boosters to play the game -- the starter decks just come with the rules, which you can download and print for yourself, and the boosters have better rarity sorting.

I'm also highly impressed with Call of Cthulhu, but it's still "active" and so not cheap yet.



*showing my age, I imagine.
**one exception being Call of Cthulhu, where the rares are often specialized to the point of almost absurdity.
 
 
Digital Hermes
15:27 / 08.08.07
I've always had this love/hate with CCGs. I liked Magic initially, but the amount of new decks and themes coming out started to make it feel obsolete. Not to mention that new themes and decks began to have rules that weren't as intuitive as the inital ones... (Tap your land to summon a being or cast a spell as the basic foundation.) It felt like the constant innovations with new decks meant that something that was a standby rule initially is in flux now. Which is great for the grogonard expert, but confusing for the weekend hobbyist. Which, I suppose, is more my problem then a design flaw.

Now, that said, I haven't really played any of them since 1998 or thereabouts. Maybe just before the turn of the century. So maybe the hobby levelled out and no longer had bevvies of cards that made you look wincingly at the rulebook that came with the cards, with it's infintely tiny type. (There's an idea. Do any of these games have rulebooks that are regular-sized, and easier to look stuff up in? I get migraines when remembering Magic and rules for slithers.)

What I did love about them was the relative simplicity at the beginning, and the low price point to get into it. Here in Canada, I'll probably spend nearly $50 on a new RPG gamebook. Legend of the Five Rings seems to have a pretty dedicated fan base... can anyone compare that to Magic for me? Does it have a pretty basic rules foundation, or is everything up for grabs if you've got the right card?
 
 
Gaixo
03:46 / 09.08.07
The only CCG I ever played was Illuminati in the mid-90s. Enjoyable enough, but not so much that I took it up as a lifelong hobby.

Matthew, you'd managed to hype me up on the Cthulhu game, but I was disappointed to find it so expensive.

A friend is trying to hassle me into playing Legend of the
Five Rings, so I'll second the request for a review.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
15:01 / 09.08.07
I can't help with L5R (although I have heard good things) but Board Game Geek has a good review of it here. Another thread, here, seems to indicate that the game is still being expanded, built and rebooted, so I'm not sure what it's current status is.

There's apparently something called the Samurai Edition which is a good jumping-on point for new players; if your friends have scads of older cards, though, they might not like the idea of having to restart if you start on a set that isn't backwards-compatible.
 
 
Digital Hermes
16:25 / 09.08.07
I've recently heard of a CCG-like game called Pirates of the Spanish Main (or something like that) where you punch out little cardboard ships from the cardstock, and build the little ships in 3D! I'm not sure how the game mechanics work, but damn if that idea isn't cool...

I keep wondering if I should try to sell my old Magic and Star Wars cards, but I never have a free afternoon to spend pricing them... and at least with the Magic cards, there's a vague reminder of the fun I had with them. And I've never touched the resale market of CCGs yet. I'm vaguely afraid...
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
21:39 / 10.08.07
Incidentally, this is a playable (and affordable!!!) intro to Call of Cthulhu. It doesn't have the depth of the full game, but if you pick up some cheap common and uncommon sets on eBay, it's a pretty good gateway.
 
 
Digital Hermes
14:04 / 16.08.07
I'll be dropping my local games store this weekend, mainly to pick up research books (they've also got a hefty military history side-business) but I'm going to check out this Pirates of the Spanish Main game, and pick up a pack if it's not too expensive. Has anyone played it? If not, I'll provide a geek-report once I've given it a sail...
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
14:48 / 16.08.07
Report back, sir! A friend and his wife picked up a few packs on spec and really liked it as a kitchen-table game, but I don't know any details.

Cthulhu and horror fans will love Hecatomb -- I've just posted a long, lavish, loving review of the game over on BoardGameGeek if you want details. The review requires some slight CCG knowledge to know what I'm going on about, but I think it's clear enough.

My next "conquest" in the "cheap CCG Olympics" will probably be Legend of the Five Rings -- one of the "expired" sets like the Gold or Diamond edition of the game. Cheap on eBay and at Wholesale Gaming, and (according to people on the Geek) an excellent game all 'round that you can easily get into with devalued "older" cards if you have no interest in tournament play.
 
 
Digital Hermes
16:59 / 16.08.07
I've been thinking about LOT5R myself, if anything because the asian sensibility really hits me where I live, aesthetically. Let me know how it is... that said, if they've got any old packs when I drop by, we might be experimenting over the same weekend...
 
 
Digital Hermes
16:00 / 21.08.07
Got the Pirates game, but haven't played it yet.

As a mini-report, the fact that you put together the ships yourself, out of fairly resilient hard-cardboard or whatever it is, is extremely cool. I finished putting together a four-mast ship called BALLISTA, and showed it off to my girlfriend because it looks so cool.

The price point is extremely low for games of this kind, too. I paid a little under 5 bucks Canadian for one pack, which you could conceiveably play a game out of. (It would be very unbalanced, but still...) Under 10 bucks, and you would have enough ships for a fun little melee.

Again, I haven't played it yet, but I've read the rules, and other than a few spots of un-clearness, I think it's a pretty simple game at it's core, with the possibility for great complexity the larger your fleet gets...
 
 
Digital Hermes
15:15 / 04.09.07
Does anyone know what the price guide is for Magic: the Gathering? I thought it was a magazine widely available, but I haven't seen it anywhere...
 
 
Essential Dazzler
11:39 / 26.09.07
My partner and I got a Booster Box of Hecatomb cards each last week, for a disgustingly small amount of cash. The haul was enough for us both to get the full compliment of common cards for the base set, and enough spare cards to donate about two decks worth of cards to a card-playing flatmate.

I'd skimmed the rulebook before we played and was slightly concerned that it'd be slightly too simple a game, in terms of Gameplay styles, but it really isn't. We managed a few games last night and we've all fallen in love.

I'd definitely reccomend playing Hecatomb with at least three players, while M:TG works well with more than 2 players (I've personally taken part in 9-way games), you often get the feeling that youre squeezing the rules to fit, and everyone has different house rules about turn orders/combat resolutions/spell targets etc.

Hecatomb is really built for multi-player games, the less structured turns feel really freeing, and being able to launch multiple waves of attackers against multiple targets is nice. Having three piles of souls growing, means there's always plenty of traffic, in all directions, and while this means the game is never far from being won by someone, it only takes a turn to sort that out.

I have the feling that with only two players the back and forth could become a bit stale, although if I find that isn't the case then I'm not going to complain at all.

Having the cards so cheaply available, and a tiny number of them ever printed (all three sets and promos total under 400 different cards, I believe) is a great playing field leveller.

So to recap: Good, fun game, very cheap.

Has anyone else played with the UFS (Universal Fighting System)? I might knock up a post later.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
12:02 / 26.09.07
Hooray! Always good to see the HecaLove growing. I posted a glowing review on BoardGameGeek a while back, and there are a LOT of Hecatomb fans out there that still break out the cards and play now and again.

I'll confirm that it's WAY more fun with 3/4 players than with two. Two is okay, but it's a bit more along the lines of marshalling forces until you can make a massive attack, then making a massive attack; multi-player games are more dynamic.

Plus, as opposed to Magic, you "play to win" rather than "play to make others lose," which means you never hit a point where one person gets knocked out of a game in five minutes and the game drags for another 45 after. You've always got a chance to rally and come from behind with Hecatomb.

And the cards are fun, which helps.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
12:02 / 11.10.07
Another quick note: Wizards of the Coast just announced that Dreamblade is dead.

Which is great news.

In a year or so, you (well, I) will be able to buy this fantastic game for pennies a figurine, and since Wizards squeezed out four expansion sets before the thing went belly-up, there's TONS of variety and interesting play potential in there. I've been having a blast with the 100 or so figurines I've bought, and I'm really looking forward to buying more sets on the super-cheap once the current fan base dies due to a lack of tournament support.

It's Hecatomb all over again -- brilliant game, great mechanics, died on the vine but the wine will still be as sweet one year from now.
 
 
Terrance
07:09 / 23.01.08
I used to play Magic: The Gathering a bit, and have a few hundred cards (some dating from the early 90s), but I eventually got sick of it. Having to deal with such a large volume of cards really annoyed me.

Lately I've been messing around with an online client-based CCG called 'Chron X', which predates Magic Online. It's actually pretty in-depth (but not quite as much as Magic) and boasts a sci-fi/cyberpunk theme.

Despite having to pay for digital cards, it really appeals to me that I don't have to organise several hundred cards manually or spends half an hour searching for a particular card to trade.

Also, Chron X recently came under new management, who plan to overhaul the game and develop a web-browser interface to bring it to a wider audience, which sounds really impressive. Seeing as the current client is quite dated and only Windows compatible, being able to play such an in-depth game from your browser could really put Chron X on the map.
 
 
semioticrobotic
10:29 / 23.01.08
Thanks for the interesting link, aeSentinel.

Now: Where can I find the rules for this game?
 
 
Terrance
05:35 / 24.01.08
As far as I know, there isn't a page on the site that lays out the full rules, or a manual, however, the client has multiple training missions that I assume are supposed to be a supplement. I find them to be pretty decent, but a manual would be much better.

Perhaps the new developers will write a manual for the new browser client they are working on?

I've just gotten around to checking out Hecatomb. It does sound very interesting, but, unfortunately, I don't think it's interesting enough to give up the benefits of online CCGs I've grown so fond of, especially now that it's dead. And where I live it's hard enough to buy Magic, let alone more obscure titles. I'm afraid I may have to give it a miss.

I happen to have bought a couple of Pirates boosters in the past. If I can find the pieces, I'll upload some photos for you guys. It was pretty cool, but I couldn't really get into it, due to the only game store in town not stocking it.
 
  
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