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Bemani / Rhythm Action

 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:00 / 29.06.07
Been trying to get this one started for a while, but have kept losing enthusiasm for starting a big new thread on Bumalith after I've got a couple of paragraphs down. Hopefully, this attempt will run a bit smoother.

Before I start this off, though, I'm assuming that I've never said that the shoot 'em up is my favourite videogame genre. Because it's not - it's the one that's been with me the longest, but it's not the one that I love unconditionally. My heart and soul belong to music games.

Bemani = beatmania. It wasn't the first game to base itself around the idea of presenting a visual representation of the rhythm of a piece of music and asking the player to hit buttons in time with that rhythm - I have no idea what was the first game to do this, I'm afraid, but I know it wasn't this one - but it is the game that single-handedly turned the format into a craze.

It's also the game that laid down the gameplay foundations for the majority that followed on from it. You've got a line at the bottom of the screen and a number of columns leading down to it. Icons scroll down those columns and when they hit the line, you hit the relevant button. In beatmania's case, the buttons take the form of a very small keyboard and a turntable.

You see the same format repeated throughout the genre. Konami - beatmania's creators - reused it themselves for two of the other biggest bemani franchises: the ubiquitous Dance Dance Revolution and the lesser-known Pop'n Music. DDR turns the screen up the other way and has the icons - now turned into arrows - scroll upwards, and also reinvents the controller. Pop'n Music doesn't really alter much of the beatmania format, other than replacing the keyboard with a set of huge, friendly, domed buttons the size of an open palm and making the entire cab bright and happy (beatmania's DJ culture look must have intimidated a lot of people over the years).

I've not really played any of them. I played some DDR one night a couple of years ago and had a whale of a time - it probably helped that I already had some experience with the genre by this point, albeit not with anything that demands as little self-consciousnes as DDR. I'm currently heavily into a beatmania clone called DJ Max (more on which in a bit). Otherwise, nada. Have got one of the most recent PS2 Beatmania releases winging its way to me now, though, and am determined that one day, in the not-too-distant future, I will get around to buying myself that PS2 dance mat that I've been promising myself for years.

Incidentally, I've seen people moan about the use of the word 'bemani' before, making out that it's exclusively used by Japanophiles and snobs. I call bullshit on this claim - it's simply a lovely word that has a nicely onamatapaeic element to it. Be-Ma-Ni.

Mmmmm. Rhythmic.

I'm aiming for this thread to become a number of things, but my initial motivation is that it's going to be a primer to the genre, with descriptions of the games and explanations of their systems*. Unless somebody else replies inbetween now and my next post, I'll go through the games I know of in the order that I came to them, rather than attempt to pull together the same kind of development timeline that was present in the shmups thread.

Before I do that, though: I love bemani. Like I said before, heart and soul. I've always been a big music fan, but in recent years I've found that I can't afford to have more than the one real obsession, especially when the one that I'm focussed on is so expensive (both in terms of financial cost and the amount of time that it eats up). Bemani eases my conscience on that score, to a small extent - I don't feel so guilty about not hunting out music that I've not heard before when I'm playing games that can introduce me to the same themselves.

So there's that. There's also the way that playing a game in time with its soundtrack can completely tune you into that soundtrack - even if it's just an illusion, you frequently feel as though you're having an effect on the tune that's currently playing.

Mainly, though, it's the physicality of it. I honestly believe that you never really hear a piece of music properly unless you're moving to it - it doesn't matter what you're moving, nor how much movement's taking place, but you'll never understand or really appreciate a tune unless you've got your body attuned to its rhythms. Hell, your body wants for this to happen, even without your say so - why else have I just noticed that my foot's tapping away to itself atm and I appear to have been typing this out in time with the songs that I've got on right now?

You link all these things together and you get something that's only present in bemani - well, maybe not, given that they're also there when you're playing a real life instrument, but one of the other things that bemani frequently does is allows you to feel like you're a goddamn musical prodigy, just so long as you're capable of following a beat and have decent hand/eye co-ordination.

It makes me happy, bemani. When the games include a score attack element - which is more often than not - it makes me obsessed, as score attack is is (as discussed in the shmups thread, iirc) *the* main reason for videogames' potential to cause additiction.

I'm blathering now, so I'm going to post this up before I get the Barbelith Blues again and delete in a fit of despondency. Will be back in a bit to start the thread proper. If anybody else wants to jump in in the meantime, feel free - more than happy for this to flow in its own direction, rather than the one I've defined for it above.

*Given that Guitar Hero has its own thread, I'm going to request that discussion of it in this one be limited to comparisons with other games of the same genre or general gameplay mechanics talk - discussion of GH in and of itself should still take place in the dedicated thread.
 
 
the permuted man
20:34 / 29.06.07
I've imported and played IIDX since 5th Mix. It's 7 keys and a DJ wheel. Around 8th or so they were going to stop making them, but ran a promotional where if enough fans (30k) preordered the next version, they would make it. The preorder numbers were reached almost immediately and now the series is going strong again (13th out in August).

I really do like playing it, but after an hour or so I get this nagging sensation that if I'm sitting around hitting keys with my fingers I would should just go work on my own music. Maybe it's because I have a small apartment and my piano is right next to my chair.

I tend to just play through on random. When I sit down for an hour I just want to play some songs. If I really like a song I'll repeat it a few times to see if I can FULL COMBO (no missed or extra notes) it, but after a few stressful experiments trying to AAA (highest ratings) songs, I'd much rather relax.

I understand your comment on "feeling" the music, but I also think there's also a rudimentary hand-eye (or is hand-ear) coordination system present. I guess part of the appeal of video games is pushing buttons when you're supposed to, being rewarded, and seeing how long you can do it for without messing up. These games are the distilled essence of that.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:09 / 30.06.07
Oh, it's more than rudimentary - it's the entire basis of the gameplay. And I completely understand the appeal of trying for the maximum combo string - that's what's seen me getting little more than between four and five hours of sleep per night for the last couple of weeks.

Parappa the Rapper's the first bemani game that I played (and it predates beatmania by a year or so). It combines the idea of showing a scrolling form of notation for the rhythm with a call and response element - you, as Parappa, have to repeat the line of verse that's just come from the other character in the stage, with the game also showing you the timing at the top of the screen.



It's great, Parappa. Appealingly daft lyrics, characters and stages - there's a brilliant one just over halfway through where you've got to engage in a rap battle to get to the front of a queue for a public toilet before you shit yourself. The visual design is lovely - pop-up book characters (they disappear when they turn side-on and fold over when they bow down or lean backwards) in a bold 3D world.

Parappa introduces the idea of having the music change in real-time as your performance improves or worsens. Drop down to Bad or Awful and it wibbles around and goes all out of tune, while the characters and environments react to suit. Get all the way up to Cool and the trainer character disappears from the scene, allowing you to freestyle for mucho pointage.

It's a really good way of learning the placement of the PlayStation pad's facia buttons, too - I could never get the hang of which one was circle, which one square, etc, without looking down at them, until I spent some time with this game.

The one thing that I've never totally understood about it is the requirements for hitting and then maintaining a Cool rating. On the first stage, you can get it bit hitting an extra button inbetween each of those marked, but this doesn't seem to work consistently on the others. It means I've never completed the game to my satisfaction.

Somebody making a right royal mess of the most memorable level

It's kind of broken, though. You can pass a section by hitting the final beat of any phrase perfectly - doesn't matter if you've cocked up the rest, the last beat will always save you. Bit of a flaw, but the game's lovable enough that it's forgivable.

The developers, NanaOn-Sha followed it up with Um Jammer Lammy, which is significantly less well-known. Rodney Greenblat is on-hand again for character design duties and the core of the gameplay remains identical, but instead of a rapping dog, you're now a guitar-playing lamb. Or lamb-thing.



Again, I love UJL. The range of musical styles on offer is wider than that in Parappa and the levels are even more nuts - Parappa's are actually quite boring in comparison. There are a couple of stinkers, though, which can make it seem like a lesser game when you're stuck in the middle of them - a grunge thing with a lumberjack and an absolutely fucking terrible goth/prog thing that has *no* discernable rhythm and, as a direct result, is a bloody nightmare to get through. Such a shame - with the exception of those two levels, it's aces.

Quite interesting, that Wikipedia page - it seems that the fear of offending Christian America was still in full force and enough to drive publishers to censor even obscure releases with niche appeal.

First stage
Mamamamamamamamamamama!
Final stage in two-player mode

You can see from the first two of those vids how they altered the bar at the top of the screen to make it clearer when it's your turn - could get a bit confusing in Parappa when you first started playing it.

Parapper the Rapper 2 eventually appeared on the PlayStation 2 and used the exact same gameplay mechanics for a third time. It's widely considered to be the least impressive of the three games, and I go along with that opinion.



There are a couple of issues with the structure of the game. Finish it once and when you play through it again on the same save file, you'll find that the difficulty has jumped up, with the rhythms required of your fingers altering from your first run. Finish it a second time and it changes them yet again. The problem is that they're never as good as they were on the first run - they never *sound* as good, they're never as much fun to play. The third run is especially poor.

There are still some really nice high points, though. The hairdressing octopus is a stand-out level for the series, as is the mash-up level that takes place within a retro-styled videogame. The music gets slated as not being up to the first game's standard, but that's a load of bollocks, really. If anything, it's better - still stupid funny.

First level
Octopus level

Between Um Jammer Lammy and Parappa 2, Nana-on-Sha, the games' developers, created Vib Ribbon for the PS1. It loses the call and response element of the presentation and instead places the main character, wireframe bunny Vibri, on the rhythm bar itself.



And this time, you don't get to see the button icons. Instead, you've got different types of obstacle to avoid, each of which has its own button. It's the same thing in effect, just that now you have the additional difficulty of trying to remember which button deals with which obstacle.

Oh, and it sometimes combines two obstacles together, meaning two buttons at the same time.

It has one of the best gameplay explanation vids I've ever seen - YouTube vid of it here (German version as I can't find an English recording and most people here will most likely have more chance of undesrstanding the German text than they would the Japanese, at a guess - I know I have. And the game in that vid is running on an emulator, hence the presence of a mouse pointer).

Vib Ribbon's big feature is that it loads the entire game into the PS2's memory in one go, meaning that you can take the CD out and replace it with one from your own music collection. The engine then creates a brand new level from whichever track on the CD you decide to play, which makes it a truly endless challenge.

It's a dead nice idea, but I've always had a little trouble with it. Because the game's having to try and make levels based on something that it's reading off the CD in real-time, there's quite often a tiny delay between the sound from the CD and the onstacle in the game, which is soemthing that I find offputing. I appear to be in the miority, though, so maybe it's just my eyes/ears playing tricks on me. And, to be fair, I never put a huge amount of time into trying out different CDs - really should rectify that situation, but I'm pretty sure that it won't work properly on the PS2 (as opening the disc tray resets the consoles, I think).

The other small problem I have with it is that the three tunes that are on the game CD are so good, it almost feels wrong to be playing it to anything else.

Vid of the first couple of songs (and the awesome title screen music).
Vid of the game playing with a regular music CD in the drive.

The original Parappa's just be released for the PSP in Japan and should be heading out to the US and Europe soon - the Japanese version of the original PS1 game had English text in it, though, so the same might be true of the PSP game if anybody wants to import. UJL and Parappa 2 will both work on the PS2 (obviously in the case of the latter, given that it's a PS2 game anyway) - dunno about the PS3. Vib Ribbon got a European release but never saw the light of day in the US - Sony US's hatred of anything unique coming to the fore, at a guess - and, as I say, may not work properly on anything than a PS1/PSOne.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:20 / 30.06.07
Ah, here's a vid of teh final stage of UJL in single-player, because the way that the game handles the switch between the two different versions of the track for the two different players in the previous vid is a mess. This one also shows how the soundtrack alters depending on your performance and how that works as an incentive to try and improve.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:26 / 03.07.07
I must admit, I'm completely new to this entire genre, usually being pretty much an FPS/RTS kind of guy. Somehow I've always had the idea that just hitting stuff or moving in time to coloured lights isn't a proper game; there's something missing.

Guitar Hero 2 has changed all that, however- there's a lot more skill and gaming ability required than I ever imagined. And it's a lot of fun. I'm going to have to delve further into this field. I like the idea of dancing games, having discovered that it's impossible to play GH2 without throwing ridiculous rock poses (of course, the fact that you have to tilt the guitar upright to activate Star Power bonuses tends to funnel you towards posing anyway...)

Like most truly great gaming ideas, it's a really simple one.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:27 / 03.07.07
(Sorry for the slight digression into wrong-threadiness in the second para... but I'm interested in how that makes me want to play the others and whether the same "urge to move" happens).
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:45 / 03.07.07
No, that's all on-topic, Stoats - you're talking about the game within the discussion about the wider genre, which is fine.

GH is basically beatmania with a different controller and a far more limited range of music.

Sorry, will carry on with this when I get some time.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:41 / 03.07.07
Bust-a-Groove (PS1) was, I think the first dance-themed bemani title to hit the home market. It's a strange one, too - superficially, it looks like a standard DDR-alike, but to play it's this weird cross between rhythm action and beat ‘em up.



A string of commands is shown on the screen - arrows and the symbol of one of the PS1 pad's four facia buttons. The only bit of rhythmic play you need to indulge in is hitting the facia button shown at the end of the command string on the last beat of the bar (from memory, all tracks are in 4/4 time, which makes this even easier to deal with). You can hit the directions on the d-pad that are indicated by the arrows at any point within that bar, in time with the beat or not, as long as it's before the final command and as long as you hit them in the correct sequence.

Sometimes you get two command sequences on screen at the same time. When this happens, the upper one will progress through to an easy string of commands and the lower one will initiate the harder string.

Because it's a two player versus game, you've got to be a bit thick to go for the upper strings, as any player going for the harder ones will always beat you (as long as ze doesn’t fluff them). You can tell which of the two players is currently in the lead from who's in the centre of the camera frame.

When you start a round, the command strings that are shown on the screen will be relatively easy and your character’s movements less impressive than they get towards the end of it – like they’re building up to the big finale of their dance routine. Once you’ve played the game a bit, though, and got the progression of command strings down to memory, you can ignore the prompts on the screen and jump straight into the more complex moves. Only certain of the strings work as jumping-in points, so you need to play around in order to find out which do and which don’t. I’d imagine that this can make the game really exciting if you get two experts facing off against each other, but as none of my irl mates have *any* rhythm (if their performances on these games is anything to go by, anyway), it’s not something I’ve ever been able to test out.

In fact, jumping straight into a complex combo can feel a bit cheap if you’re playing against somebody who doesn’t have a huge amount of knowledge or ability. Versus games (of any type) are never any fun if one player is constantly mashing the other, even if you’re the player doing the mashing,

Bust-a-Groove also allows you three full-on attacks – moves that are triggered with a simple stab of the triangle button and will break your opponent’s combo if they hit home. They all have a really obvious audio cue, which makes it easy to avoid when one’s fired your way, just so long as you’ve not fallen asleep or something. The real difficulty that they can present is if one’s fired at you when you’re in the middle of one of the more complicated command strings – avoiding them is a matter of hitting yet another button within the bar in which they’re fired at you.

I really liked this game for a long time, but I played it again quickly yesterday – only for a couple of rounds – and was surprised by how difficult it was to link the hardest command string combos together. A 4/4 beat with a command that *has* to be hit on that fourth beat means that you’ve just got the first three to process the information on the screen, translate that into button presses and get your thumb doing its stuff. It made me realise just how much easier the game is when you’ve got the lengthiest command strings hard-wired to hands, can pull them off without needing to look at the screen. I don’t know if that’s a flaw or a strength – possibly a strength when both players are at the same level of ability.

A nice game and definitely a good option to go for if you're wanting a rhythm action title to play with/against somebody who doesn't posses all that much rhythm or isn't all that great with videogames. Holds up well in technical terms – animation is satisfying and entertaining, everything looks surprisingly solid for its age. Music possibly hovers just the wrong side of cheesy – it feels like kids’ tv theme tune time – but that doesn’t stop the game from being fun, nor from you getting into it while you’re playing (as I’ve said before, a good bemani game can make even the worst piece of music sound appealing, and this doesn’t come close to the worst that I’ve heard).

Two sequels were released, neither of which I’ve played. The first came out in Japan and the US, but I don’t think it ever appeared in Europe – I never saw anything of it beyond a couple of previews, and it would have been out in America just at the time that the PlayStation market was stuttering, so wouldn’t have made it out here until after that point if it had been released). The second sequel remained Japan-only. I might try grabbing them one day, but I’d guess they’re both a bit pricey now and I doubt they’re worth the hassle or expense. The original game is a laugh and has some very interesting ideas, nicely packaged, but isn’t ever going to be called a classic. It was a bit of an evolutionary dead-end for the genre, but has been reused a couple of times (most recently on Audition Portable for the PSP, which looks like a load of old shit, quite frankly).

The sequels do seem to build on the rather basic gameplay of the original, from what I've seen of them on YouTube - mixing extra facia button commands into individual bars, for example. Vid here. Fever Time, btw, is your reward for finishing a bout with all your health bar intact - you character does an extra little dance, the camera flips out. Nice way of rubbing the other player's face in it, I've always thought.

Gah. I kind of want them now that I've watched that.

Oh, the name. It's Bust-a-Move in Japan, but there's already a Bust-a-Move in the US and Europe. That Bust-a-Move is the game that the Japanese know as Puzzle Bobble - the puzzle game where you fire coloured bubbles up to the top of the screen, the one that uses characters from the Bubble Bobble/Rainbow Islands universe. I've no idea why that one was renamed.

Heat's stage (player fucks it badly at the end)
Hiro's stage
Kitty'N's stage
Shorty's stage
Cosplay dude doing a half-hearted version of Heat's Fever Time jiggy (lots of cosplay/fan videos on YouTube, so the game clearly had more of an impact in some places than I realised)

Oh, hell. I even like the music again now, too.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:28 / 05.07.07
Just to say, my copy of beatmania IIDX 12 and the official controller rolled up today. And I'm absolutely awful at it. Same was true of DJ Max when i first started playing that, but at least with that game I noticed some (minor) improvement over the course of the first few hours (and am now passable at it). This, though, not so much.
 
 
the permuted man
13:30 / 06.07.07
It has a fairly steep learning curve. Some of them have a "Beginner's Mode"--not sure if 12 does off the top of my head. But in past versions it allows you to play songs at a difficulty even easier than Light 7. Otherwise, it just takes some practice; and, I think it's worth it in the end. You'll be amazed when you're sight-reading songs harder than ones you had to practice in slow motion under Training Mode (oh, yeah, there's a training mode too which lets you adjust song speed).

It's interesting, because once you start getting good at it, it becomes hard to keep your attention through the songs with less notes. Combined with the fact IIDX doesn't get a lot of new players (the fanbase it has doesn't seem to be going anywhere however): the songs are pretty difficult to new players. This has been a frustration of mine as it's not a very social game, unless you're playing with someone else who plays it.

Oh yeah, I meant to add, Bust-a-Groove was my first rhythm game. I had a lot of fun playing that game.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
14:07 / 06.07.07
Yeah, I'm noticing some very slight improvement already. I think what's most difficult is figuring out how to use the controller - not how and when to press the buttons, nor which buttons to press, but working out where the hell your hands need to be. I've progressed from juust hitting them with random hand-ends as and when, to having a set position for my hands to be in right before the song starts, deviating from it when it's completely necessary, but returning to it whenever I get the chance. Thumbs over the middle two whites, fourth fingers over the outer two, index and third figers over the three blacks.

There is a beginners' mode in 12, but I can't figure out how to even select Light 7. Which suggests that I might already be playing at that difficulty, I suspect.

And ack. Speed select. You know, I kept on looking at that in the training mode, but the eyes clearly didn't pass the information through to the brain, so cheers for pointing it out.
 
 
the permuted man
15:58 / 06.07.07
You can change difficulty by using the select button during song selection (in Free Mode and Arcade Mode). I imagine Light 7 is the default, so you probably won't need to change it for a while. Another useful thing to know is that if you hold Start and Select while a song is playing you can go back to the menu. But since holding Start is the shortcut to changing effects, you should be careful you don't turn-on ultra-reverb or something in the process.
 
 
the permuted man
16:36 / 06.07.07
There are a lot of IIDX videos on YouTube which cover a wide spectrum of the things people do with the game (e.g. playing both player 1 and player 2 on two controllers or all random notes). Hardest thing seems to be finding a video where you can 1) see the screen, 2) see the player's hands, and 3) hear the music all in one. Here are a couple that are decent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIkiKA7cjgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9K7QZl2Lzg
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:08 / 07.07.07
I saw a couple of those when I was trying to figure out which version to start with. Now they just depress me :{

I am playing on light 7, as far as I can tell - this version doesn't appear to make that term explicit, unless I'm missing it in amongst the very busy menu screens. Admittedly, I've not put as much concentrated effort as I'd like into the game yet - got a couple of other things last week and I'm trying to spread my time out amongst them evenly, which I know from previous experience is a mistake with games like this. They absolutely demand dedication.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
22:03 / 07.07.07
Konami really set down the rules for the genre during the late 1990s. I was just thinking, I mentioned beatmania, DDR and Pop'n music in the opening post, but managed to forget all about GuitarFreaks and DrumMania.

GuitarFreaks is proto-Guitar Hero. the controller even functions in the same way, albeit with three fret buttons instead of five. And when you think that Harmonix - the Guitar Hero people - are just about to publically reveal Rock band, a game that features both a guitar controller and a drumset controller, you start to realise that maybe there's a debt of gratitude owed somewhere along the line that hasn't, afaik, ever been acknowledged.

I suddenly realised, I have played GuitarFreaks. Once, at a friend's house. And I was terrible at it - to be fair, though, it was only the one go, more because I was worried about breaking the controller than anything else. I remember that the music was more varied than in Guitar Hero, but that may be rose tinting. Everything certainly looked more attractive - that said, I'm a sucker for vibrant colours and cartoon videos. You can see the kind of thing I mean here. It shows the GH interface up for the fugliness that it is.

Some gameplay and music vids, plucked at random from YouTube:
1
2
3
4

The music's livelier, too. It just screams fun, to me. Christ, this thread's going to be hell on my wallet.

Anyway, other than a quick go on DDR and another on GuitarFreaks, I've never explored the various Konami series (until this version of beatmania I just got), so I'll leave them for those as have.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:45 / 13.07.07


Space Channel 5. Weird one, this. In theory it's an amazing game. In practice it's seriously under-developed.

It's similar to Parappa in that it's all about following and repeating, but this time you're not following a key pattern - instead, you have to memorise primarily by sound. The bad guy aliens (who are actually hypnotised good guys) will chant out a pattern of directions for a bar, you have to repeat it exactly, with the same rhythm, in the next.

You've also got a couple of fire buttons, although they're really just fifth and sixth directions. The chant'll come ou "up, down, up down, chu, chu, chu" and you copy it on the d-pad for the directions, the A button for the chus. You need to keep a sharp eye on the screen as the game progresses, because if the "chu" comes from a human, you hit the B button. Hit the A for a human or B for an alien and you fail the pattern.

What sold SC5 was its style. It's all retro-futuristic PVC miniskirts and ray guns, and the soundtrack is centred around Mexican Flyer, which is this swinging spy groove thing that wouldn't sound out of place in an Austin Powers movie.

What fucks SC5 up is that it was either developed under a restrictive budget or else released well before it had been finished properly. It looks dead cheap, for a start. The characters are all made up of polygons and generated by the Dreamcast in real time, but the backgrounds are pre-recorded FMV, and grainy FMV at that. They're also often horribly garish, looking a lot like fluorescent vomit.





See? You can tell what the artists were trying to go for, but they stuffed it up. It's worse in motion - the FMV, as stated, is displayed at a very low resolution. It's also poorly cued to both the music and the real time character animations, so you get this horrible thing of the camera angle that the characters are viewed at changing, but the angle that the FMV footage's camera is at doesn't change until a split second later.

And the gameplay itself contains one massive flaw. When you press a command, Ulala 9the main character) responds with an animation. That's as you'd expect. The problem is that sometimes the animation routine for a move can't be interupted with the animation for the next command quickly enough. Does that make sense? You press up, Ulala stretches upwards. You then press right, because that's the pattern, but she doesn't break the up animation quickly enough. So you get this delay happening, and it obviously gets worse each time it happens.

Which in turn means that it kills the gameplay. You need to be able to copy a rhythm precisely, but the timing flaw caused by the animation means that you've got a delay to deal with, so you have to start trying to second guess where the delay's occuring, then hitting the command just *after* the music tells you that you should be.

It's funny, but it's only returning to SC5 now that I realise how badly flawed it is. It's also lacking in some fairly basic options - no level select means that if you want to try and improve your score for a certain level, you've got to play through all of the ones that come before it first.

The sequel, on the other hand, is a marvel.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:04 / 13.07.07
Oh yeah. Videos.

First level
Penultimate & final bosses

The crappy YouTube video quality does the game a favour - you can't see the clear distinction between the resolution of the FMV in the game and that of the characters.

One of the things that the first game gets right is Ulala's English language voice acting. The woman doing the voice is called Apollo Smile and she was pretty much an IRL recreation of Ulala at the time she was involved in the game, from what I've seen and read.

Third boss

That last one shows just how fugly the game can be at points. You can see the cueing delay between the two different visual elements most clearly when the (rubbish) explosions appear on the boss for the first time - there's still an explosion on the screen when everything else has shifted back to the view of Ulala. A big WTF to the dizzyingly strange mixtures of camera angles in there, too. Plus levitating Ulala. Nnnggg.
 
 
netbanshee
16:21 / 14.07.07
Great thread so far, erd.

I had a go at Parappa the Rappa and SC5 back in the day, but I don't have the same access to them as I used to. I remember thoroughly enjoying them though and working my way up to a 100% clear on SC5 when my dreamcast was still up and running.

My brother will be visiting in the next few weeks and he's a DDR and Beatmania freak. I'll see if I can have him bring down his entire collection (controllers, imports and all) and give it a go on my home setup over the weekend. I don't foresee much sleep happening.

I'm also going to order up Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan I & II, now that I have a bit more cash on hand. From seeing past coverage and videos on it here, excited isn't even the proper word for my feelings of anticipation.

Though not quite a Bemani / Rhythm game per se, do you think that it would make any sense to bring games like Rez to this discussion eventually? It's hard not to think "music" and "game" and not want to give that baby a nod but it is a departure from many of the game mechanics being discussed here.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:19 / 14.07.07
I kept on meaning to talk about Rez (along with Space Harrier, Panzer Dragoon and others) in the shmups thread. It's not really a music game. What you do isn't tied into the music, the music is tied into what you do.

Same applies to the same developers' Lumines, to a large extent.
 
 
netbanshee
23:12 / 14.07.07
Yeah... I can definitely see that Rez should be aligned with schmups now.

So I went ahead and ordered those two DS games this afternoon. I'll be more than happy to drop some of my observations as soon as I've given them enough of a go. I love rhythm games and I've been looking for a good reason to pick up my DS again without having to tie myself to the unit for long periods of time.

I also intend to pick up SC52 for the PS2 when I can. You've lured me in with your comment on it, erd.
 
 
the permuted man
03:56 / 15.07.07
Garden in IIDX 12 is such an awesome song. Finally got around to playing some today, haven't played in a while, and went and full combo'd it on HYPER. Yeah, sorry, I guess they changed the names of the difficulties in 12, but seems you figured out Light 7 is the same thing as Normal. The blue difficulty.

Just realizing I haven't played 12 nearly enough with 13 coming out in August. Sorry if this post detracts a bit.

I had fun with SC2 but after I beat it I really only replayed one of the songs. I think it was underwater maybe? Dunno, but I really liked that song.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:55 / 20.07.07
The single most disappointing thing about IIDX so far - I'm playing 12: Happy Sky and 6th Mix now - is that the music is, in general, *really* poor. I've barely touched 6th still, just because the tunes I've played have put me right off. Favourite stuff in 12 is easily the stupidest and/or poppiest - Little Little Princess, Poodle, Happy Angel, Toe Jam.

Think I've been spoiled by the two PSP DJ MAx games, the soundtracks for which are almost flawless.

Outside of that, I'm also dispappointed by the videos for the tunes. Only a very small number of them have had much effort put in and it just emphasises how rapidly Konami are pushing new iterations out of the door. Again, DJ Max does this so much better, it's embarrassing.

I'm also annoyed by the lack of consistency in the difficulty ratings. I can get through some level 3 tracks without any trouble, then fail miserably - consistently - at others. And then the difficulty in 6th Style is something else again, where level 3 difficulty bears no relation whatsoever to the same in Happy Sky.

The one thing I will say for 6th Mix is that its training mode is excellent.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:58 / 20.07.07
Yeah, you read that right. Level 3s. I can't pass most of them. I'm not sure that I'm capable of the required level of two-handed, eight-fingered co-ordination. It's the black keys that kill me, every time - when there's a quick switch from white to black, or when there's a white and black chord, my brain goes into meltdown.
 
 
the permuted man
23:18 / 20.07.07
Yeah, I agree with you on the music. There are usually only a few songs per mix I really like. Although, I think -- more than other games -- the songs are more enjoyable the better you get. At this point, the songs are really written for the game, meaning the rhythms and melodies are chosen to translate to interesting, familiar, or challenging key combinations. So even songs I absolutely hate are fun to play.

I don't watch the videos, so I can't really comment on that.
 
 
Feverfew
17:58 / 23.07.07
Is this the place to mention Frequency?

I'm curious as to whether anyone else has played this - I went a bit mad over it when it came out, played it obsessively, but I realise now that it's not as good as I thought it was. It was a good rhythm action game, in as much as it telegraphed the beats and the music was tunes-that-were-popular-at-the-time, but it felt like a flawed experiment.

Pluses - the backgrounds (choosable) were very, very pretty, the gameplay was simple but ramped up the difficulty and the songs were pretty good stuff.

Minuses - The inherent problem was the 'bar' system, in that if you completed two bars of the song that section would play until the next break - but this meant, in point of fact, that at every break you were, if I remember rightly, presented with a blank slate again, meaning the only continuity was the need to keep your energy levels up. Maybe on the harder levels (and I'm not an eight-fingered dexterity-wonder either) there was some retention, but on the first few difficulty levels the songs became oddly disjointed.

Don't even get me started on the so-called Remix function, either. Blah. To sum up - it was a good idea, flawed in the execution, but so, so pretty...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:54 / 24.07.07
yeah, you're right - I liked it a lot when it first came out, just played it again and it's not held up brilliantly.



Same thing as usual, icons scrolling down (or out of) the screen, you have to hit the corresponding button when they reach a certain point.

The difference is that you're inside an octagonal tube, riding the walls. The 'notes' scrolling down each wall relate to individual layers of the tune - drums on one, bass on another, vocals on another, etc. Once you've filled two bars of any layer, it autoplays for the rest of that phase of the tune, allowing you to move onto another wall and complete another layer, slowly building the tune up, instrument by instrument.

On that image above, you can see where the current phase is about to end - it's represented by the octagonal blue gate that's at the far end of the tunnel. Once you reach there, it'll open up and the next phase will begin.

That's a pre-release screenshot, I think - there are a number of visual elements missing, such as the progress/phase bar that's situated on the right of the screen in the release version of the game.

The inherent problem was the 'bar' system, in that if you completed two bars of the song that section would play until the next break - but this meant, in point of fact, that at every break you were, if I remember rightly, presented with a blank slate again

Depends on the track. The further you get into each of them, the more phases are already filled in. I think it's vaguely related to your performance in the previous phase, too - only fired it up for five minutes quickly, but that's how I remember it playing.

The game's recommended controls are shit, but thankfully you can use the shoulder buttons in place of the triangle and square, to save your thumb joints and make some of the faster patterns actually possible to complete.

The bigger problem, for me, is that beause your navigation around the walls is entirely at your control, it's easily possible to find yourself unable to scroll across to the next one that needs filling in time to prevent yourself from missing a beat, and therefore missing an entire bar.

I know how I'd have got around this if I'd been designing it, whilst also getting rid of the problem that you've identified - they should have emptied selected walls at pre-defined points in the tune, indicated which one needed playing next and given the player a countdown timer of a couple of seconds to navigate around to it.

The soundtrack's aged quite badly, too, I think. It's always going to be a danger with going for licensed tracks when those tracks are currently popular (*not* 'pop').

By Harmonix, the original Guitar Hero guys. You can see it in the way that the track's presented above, and also in the use of score multipliers in the gameplay (they work in exactly the same fashion as GH's 'star power' icons).

Never played the sequel, Amplitude, because I heard bad things about the tune selection, but it supposedly eradicates some of the gameplay problems that Feverfew's mentioned.

Hmm. Bit disappointed in this. Was intending to big it up, but like I say, returning to it now I find that it's not quite as good as I remember it being.

The avatar creation tool is aces, though.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:31 / 26.07.07
Quick apology for having come grinding to a halt on this, if anybody cares. It's just that I've got to Space Channel 5 Part 2 and am struggling to find the energy to write about it, having done so fairly extensively elsewhere in the not-too-distant past.
 
 
the permuted man
13:26 / 27.07.07
You've put a lot of effort into this thread. It's very thorough and informative. You shouldn't have to apologize for losing a little steam.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:03 / 06.08.07
Cheers man.

Okay, let's see if I can get over this hump, otherwise this thread's going to remain in this state forever.



Space Channel 5 Part 2 (images in this and the other post teefed from HG101).

Basically, everything that SC5 got wrong, SC5P2 got right. It's the same game, but instead of being a bit distant, a bit cheap and a bit forced, everything about Part 2 screams quality and enthusiasm.

It's all proper 3D, none of that pre-rendered backgrounds nonsense, which means that the director gets to twirl the camera around like a lunatic and frame the whole thing like a big budget Hollywood musical.

The soundtrack takes in loads of different styles, all the tunes being seriously memorable. There's a bit in the middle where you've got to save Michael Jackson - the Michael Jackson - and the music goes proper funky pop beatsex to match. There's a hard trance bit the level after, with visuals doing this fantastically groovy 1960s two-tone thing.

There are instrument battles, where the shouted directions drop out and instead you have to copy a more complex rhythm than normal - the highlight of these is easily the guitar battle against a rival reporter, on a podium, surrounded by water filled with synchronised swimmers.

There's the way that a 100% successful rescue in any of the sub-sections of a level will reward you with a significant change in the soundtrack and all the characters on-screen switching into a new dance style (the pic above shows Ulala, with a bunch of schoolkids, rescuing the last few of their classmates and their teacher - pull it off any they all jump into a playground, ring-a-ring-a dance, while the music alters to include recorders and tin xylophones).

It's the happiest game I've ever played. You know all that crap that thick people who think they're clever always spout about how videogames aren't capable of stirring emotions beyond fear and/or excitement? This puts the lie to those claims. It's uber-uplifiting - seriously, whenever I'm in a stinky mood, this game lifts me out of it.

The original Dreamcast release was limited to Japan. The PS2 version came out in the US as part of a compilation with the first game on the same disc (released by budget publisher Agetec, iirc). It was also released on its own in Europe, but the run was small and, bizarrely - because it's all in English, including menus - Sony didn't see fit to distribute the European version in the UK. I have a feeling that they only distributed it in France, actually, but it might have got out to Germany, Italy, etc. Whatever, it made no sense at the time and doesn't make any more now. And I still have no idea why Sega didn't publish it themselves in the US or Europe.

You can get it on eBay - the French version will work perfectly well on UK PS2s. I can't recommend it enough.

Schoolkids
Duelling guitars / opera singer
SC5 cheerleaders / Space Michael - I swear to god, one of the greatest sections of any game, ever, especially if/when you save all the cheerleaders (although it's spoiled a little here, because the player's hitting the hidden beat points, which interferes with the pure genius reward of the cheerleader chant)

Ah, that YouTuber has recorded vids of the entire game - here. Watch, but bear in mind that being a viewer doesn't begin to reflect what it's like to actually play this game.

It is, in a word, fuckingawesomebestgameeverhappyhappytimes.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:03 / 06.08.07
Also:

Best climax ever (the comments from the poster sum it up perfectly)
End credits song

And that, I think, is just about the perfect demonstration of how beamni games give you a new appreciation for music, or at least open your ears up to stuff that you *know* that you'd not have any time for otherwise. 'Cause that end credits music, it's the cheesiest thing you'll ever hear, but for some reason, it's fucking great. Even though it's stupid. Because it's stupid. There's just this thing there of not giving two shits about the fact that it's wonderfully daft.

This game, to put it into perspective, comes from the same minds as the astonishing, controversial 3D shmup Rez (mentioned upthread) and the modern puzzle classic Lumines (and, I think, the director for this lovely MV, which features in a couple of the most recent versions of said puzzle classic.
 
  
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