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Mediumship

  
 
+am
23:28 / 28.06.07
I am wondering what people's opinions are on the practise of mediumship. Mediumship can be simply defined as the communication of the living with the dead, having evolved form Victorian spiritualism, but of course it has all sorts of other associations. In my experience it has a particularly western new-age flavour. I have also read a number of the interesting pieces on ancestor worship here and elsewhere, and wonder what place this practice has in respect to that tradition.

I am involved with a group that practices psychic development which is gradually moving into mediumship as well. I have seen and experienced things that have led me to believe that certainly some kind of communication is going on here, and that I am able to do it to an extent. I am not sure that the group is for me; it doesn't "feel" quite right. The teacher seems a little too eager to push the mediumship, to assure us that she got a message that we were "all meant to be in these groups at this time", to make sure we keep coming regularly. It may well be the zeal of someone very much into her field of study, but perhaps I am feeling a bit of indoctrination phobia- there is a very definite belief system going on here. I don’t know too much about it, but there are of course spiritualist churches and the practise of taking to the “platform” and reading for members of the audience (yeah like that guy on tv) has been referred to.

Quite recently I read the excellent memoir of a mystic on the "path of the fool", Zealtor by Mark Hedsel, in which he dismissed mediumship as communication not with the souls of the dead themselves (whatever they are) but with these kind of shells, remnants of conciousness, repeating patterns doomed to wander the lower levels of the astral while the true being goes elsewhere. Of course he is coming from his own belief system here (something to do with Gurdjieff I believe) but it did get me thinking- is this a beneficial practice? Is it enriching or retarding my spritual development? Just whom are we talking to here?

A imagine a big difference with ancestor worship is that with mediumship you are exposed and are opening up to whoever is in the vicinity or makes their presence known that day. In the group I apparently accurately described and related a message from another member's father. Another day another member suddenly became hysterical having seemingly encountered a spirit related to the teacher and taken on the spirit's immense sadness. Some problems I have here are the open nature of the communication- it is not just your ancestors you are communing with but whatever and whoever. This is sometimes visceral, distressing stuff. There is a lot of anger and sadness about. The communications are often banal and not particularly new information for the recipient, but that said often the description of the deceased accompanied by a characteristic message is immensely moving to them. I can imagine it would be for me, but I still feel deep down it is not a particularly beneficial practice. I might be wrong.

I’m sorry for the somewhat self-centred nature of this post, but the reason for my asking revolves around my discomfort with the nature of this practice, and I am trying to work out if it is my fear of progression and change that is making me uncomfortable with the group (I have had new and reality-tweaking experiences here), or something more than that. I have had a hard time in the past finding my “self”- are these entities of dubious provenance going to rob me of it again? It really doesn’t seem quite right to me, I feel I should be working in a different area, but part of me feels I have been led here so I should work with it. So, do people think mediumship is a worthwhile pursuit? A parlour game for Victorians with too much time on their hands? A load of new-age money-making incredulous-suckering easy-answer pedalling rubbish? And does it have a valid part to play in a western culture with a large group of people who have vague monotheistic/Christian beliefs but who still want to commune with their ancestors?
 
 
EmberLeo
23:56 / 28.06.07
So, do people think mediumship is a worthwhile pursuit? A parlour game for Victorians with too much time on their hands? A load of new-age money-making incredulous-suckering easy-answer pedalling rubbish? And does it have a valid part to play in a western culture with a large group of people who have vague monotheistic/Christian beliefs but who still want to commune with their ancestors?

So... are you asking whether communicating with the dead is worthwhile, or if a particular method of doing so is worthwhile?

Because I certainly believe there is something worthwhile in communing with the ancestors, regardless of which god[s] you believe in. But I have no particular experience with the specific methods you're describing. I'm sure there ARE frauds and hoaxes out there, and were in Victorian times, but I absoloutely dissagree that all spirit mediums are frauds.

A certain amount of this comes up in my own work. Most significantly, perhaps, it comes up in Oracular Seidh when people ask the seer to speak with someone specific who has died. Some seers find those questions really easy to answer, some find it very difficult. Some are talented at it, but find it burdensome. Some would be quite happy to do it, but rarely if ever actually directly contact the requested person. I can think of at least one of each off the top of my head, so that's not me being wishy-washy.

I seem to have a talent for it, for some reason. When I'm in the high seat, even if I'm not connected to Helheim or a barrow, if somebody specifically asks if they can speak with a person they can give me a name for, more often than not I get an identifiable impression of that person. Sometimes it's just a hint of it that grows stronger as the querant and I interact. Sometimes it's a VERY strong image of somebody specific and recogniseable to the querant. But sometimes it doesn't work at all.

I won't do oracular seidh from Helheim anymore, though, because the dead find me entirely too shiny, and it makes me physically ill later. As far as I can tell, though, not connecting with Helheim doesn't actually keep me from finding whichever person I'm asked to locate. It just keeps the random folks who weren't asked for from wandering in to see the shiny lady in the entry hall.

If this isn't the kind of info you're looking for, then I appologize. It's the most directly applicable experience I have to offer.

--Ember--
 
 
+am
17:19 / 29.06.07
Thanks for the reply Ember, that's an interesting insight into your practice. It does sound like a very personal thing, whether people have the ability and or the desire to focus on this kind of work. I do have a rambling slightly confused posting style that i'm trying to work on, thanks for bearing wih it.

To clarify things: when I refer to mediumship in this case, I am referring to the distinctly Western, perhaps New Age, form of contacting the dead, that involves seances, guides, angels, that sort of thing. I suppose my main question at this point is whether people think mediumship in this form, divorced from any particular tradition such as the one Ember mentioned, is a valid/safe/worthwhile way of communicating with the dead.

I suppose it is for some people, isn't for others, and I have to find my own opinion on the matter... But if anyone has any other thoughts, much appreciated.
 
 
*
17:33 / 29.06.07
My friend's mother, whom I was pretty close with for awhile before moving out of state, was and possibly still is involved with a Christian church which is pretty traditional except for being very involved with mediumship, talking to the dead, angels and spirit guides. She has a history of prophetic dreams before getting involved with the church. She's a converted skeptic and believes (without zealotry or True Faith(tm)) in her experiences—and they have been valuable for her, particularly as she recovered from her husband's death.

On the other hand, what she's told me about the other people involved have made me wince, such as "spirit guides" who frequently seem to be Native Americans named things like Great Bear who appear in visions in very stereotypical clothing such as has never been worn by any tribe let alone the one they claim to be from. Most of the messages they receive seem to be helpful things to be reminded of by one's subconscious, such as that we should all love one another and ourselves, and not worry about the small things, and be good to the Earth, and all that. My friend's mom has learned things she couldn't have known otherwise, but whether that's from talking to dead people who happen to know these things or from giving her latent psychic abilities/intuition a new way to emerge, I don't know.

Don't know if that's helpful for you, +am.
 
 
Elduderino
09:43 / 17.08.07
Anyone who tells you to use one particualr method over any other is a self-righteous ass!

The same goes for anyone who tells you that it has no meaning because it doesnt come from a traditional "school" or way of thought.

Ultimately what dictates if the practice is worthwhile or not is it's delivery of results.
 
 
c0nstant
01:41 / 23.08.07


+am, is that book ('The Zealator') worth reading? Only I picked it up a few months ago but struggled and gave up on it as I found the authors style rather dry, and other books peaked my interest more.



carry on...
 
 
+am
22:57 / 23.08.07
Thanks for the reply, Zippy. That sounds a lot like the sort of thing I was involved in. Seems perfectly valid for those involved in it, but I decided it wasn't my thing so I left to pursue a more solitary avenue for the time being. These aren't the kind of entities I want to work with, not at this time anyway. Also some things I read about group work ("Don't just join a group because its convenient", "Be sure that these are people you want to be working with") put me off. I did some research, seems the Rosicrucians and Theosophists are down on mediumship, it being the opposite to the path of the adept as you actively open yourself to being a medium for spirits to work with. Am also reading an interesting book by Dion Fortune on the relationship between mediumship and occultism, because she was involved in both practices. There's also a bunch of positive stuff mostly from those involved in medimship, naturally. With the internet, you can find opinion for and against anything, which is of course its great benefit but its hard to find objective opinions (though can anyone really be objective about this sort of thing?).

Anyone who tells you to use one particualr method over any other is a self-righteous ass!

Yes, perhaps. But certain methods are more suited to certain people, maybe. Or certain methods have certain benefits and pitfalls. Sure the choice should be one's own.


+am, is that book ('The Zealator') worth reading? Only I picked it up a few months ago but struggled and gave up on it as I found the authors style rather dry, and other books peaked my interest more.

I think its definitely worth reading if you're interested in the Western mysteries. It is quite dry at times but there's a wealth of information in it and it demands re-readings- I'm sure it will continue to enlighten. Due to its "secret journals" nature it also includes some high human drama and is a compelling account of an initiate in a mystery tradition and how it impacts on his life. It swaps between this sort of travelogue/journal of spiritual awakenings and long pieces of oratory from teachers and Hedsel himself describing complex alchemical symbolism, the "path of the fool", and a lot about the esoteric meanings of architecture. Certainly gave an added dimension to my recent trip to Prague. Paolo describes it well in this thread, scroll down a bit. One slightly disconcerting thing about the book is Hedsel's insistence that certain and varied practices (psychometry, mediumship, past life regression, anything eastern including the simple practice of breathwork (!)) will do untold damage to the initiate's spiritual self, though I suppose this is what his system dictates and can be shrugged off.
 
 
+am
23:02 / 23.08.07
I should say he (Hedsel) certainly doesn't write off Eastern mysticism as invalid, quite the opposite, and he does incorporate a little of it into his work. He does say for those on his path these practices will mess you up, and also that whole thing about them not being suited to the Western "temperament" or whatever.
 
 
Elduderino
12:12 / 30.08.07
just double checking that you have you tried exploring mediumship technique from a spiritist view point ?

if you are feeling that there is something.. not right with the group that your with, and you wanted to explore group work and mediumship more you could allways try hooking up with a spiritist movement
 
 
Pyewacket The Elder
22:44 / 31.08.07
Hi, bit of a departure from the trend of what's come before but with this practice, when communication happens...have you received any information that no-one present could possibly have known yet later it was verified as true?

Without that kind of event any number of of far less impressive explanations are possible via the occams razor short-back-and-sides...

Not dissing the practice...just y' know...show me the money.
 
 
the Kite
15:13 / 01.09.07
I joined a mediumship group for six months, as I don't believe in life after death and needed the challenge.

I feel satisfied that the people running the group believe sincerely in what they were doing. I knew one of them, many years ago. And I have my methods ...

I noticed that people did indeed receive messages about stuff that nobody in the room knew. These had to be verified and reported back on at a later date. This happened regularly, the advantage of a regular group.

That said, most messages would fail to meet the most stringent criteria of verification. But then such messages do not arise in order to verify anybody's philosophical position.

I've been trained in cold reading and know what to look out for. Also in psychic skills, which my group distinguished from mediumship, discouraging their use in the group.

Therefore with some surprise I found myself receiving impressions which others present related to dead people they had known. Indeed the first such message I gave went to a magical colleague of mine whom I trust not to fake anything. A surprise for her too.

I got quite good at it. And the 'contacts', however you conceive of them, didn't relate to me like empty shells. They would have passed the Turing test, I think.

So I'm still picking the bones out of that one. One of those bones features the fact that nobody ever had a message for me. Apparently my dead relatives don't want to talk to me. Can't think why

Hope this adds grist to the mill.
 
 
the Kite
15:27 / 01.09.07
I should perhaps add that I estimate my personal accuracy rating as averaging about 60% of pieces of information, and that applies equally to fairly general pieces (eg 'man in his forties, slim with dark hair') and to fairly specific pieces (such as pointy nose, red tractor, and in one super example of my own, bullet wound to temple).

Those latter regularly occurred waaay above chance as I estimate it.
 
  
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