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Underground > Comic Books >

Step away from the word processor, Mr Davis.

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Mysterious Transfer Student

17:08 / 27.06.07

Over here, I ventured the opinion that while Alan Davis is a wonderful artist whose work is among some of the best of the last twenty-five years (Captain Britain, Marvelman, D.R. & Quinch, Excalibur), he really needs to be paired with a decent writer at all times because on the strength of books like ClanDestine and JLA: The Nail/Another Nail, he cannot write dialogue for toffee.

In this spirit, then, who are your favourite creators who insist on writing or drawing their own work despite the fact that their skills in one area vastly outstrip those in another? And which writers or artists do you think they'd be best teamed with to get the best from both? If you think that this topic seems a little narrow and mean-spirited, think of it as a 'glass half full' exercise - hey, his writing's terrible but the art melts my head.

17:14 / 27.06.07

Paul Pope should never be allowed to express an opinion that isn't that he looks hott when he smokes and/or drinks coffee while lying around, and only that should be expressed symbolically, by drawing boys and girls who look just like him.

If he writes a story, it will have a message, and if it has a message, it will be a Ron Paul message about socialists trying to crack down on all that smoke and coffee with their taxes and, then, later, healthcare.

He can still letter the stuff, though. I quite like his lettering.

Essential Dazzler

17:20 / 27.06.07

David Lapham's Daredevil/Punisher mini is the only series I've ever stopped buying halfway through. Looked nice, awfully written.

But Stray Bullets gets a lot of acclaim so that may have just been a bump in the road.

17:25 / 27.06.07

Stray Bullets is great but sadly absent...

17:26 / 27.06.07

...'cause Lapham's off earning the big bucks making shit like Daredevil Double Dares Punisher

Janean Patience

18:45 / 27.06.07

He can draw. Give him the general plot and let him storyboard the whole thing. He could even, if closely monitored, write the dialogue because he's very, very good at that. But at this late stage in his monomaniacal career Dave Sim is not a man you'd trust to write your comics.

19:11 / 27.06.07

Although he's a great artist, Frank Miller should concentrate more on his narrative skills these days, as these seem likely to cause more trouble.

And generally speaking, I'm not sure if anyone should be writing more than two, or at the absolute most three comics a month. The rot seems to set in a bit otherwise - in principle, a script a week shouldn't be a problem, but in practice it seems to lead to splash page hell.

08:21 / 28.06.07

I loved Brian Wood's art on Channel Zero, but I can't say I really enjoyed the story in that, or any of his more recent titles. I gave up on DMZ after reading the second trade and stopped picking up local after a couple of issues.

Haus of Mystery

09:59 / 28.06.07

Paul Pope can write IMO. He just needs to stay away from BIG POLITICAL STUFF. 100% was brilliant, as was the One Trick Rip Off, THB, and Heavy Liquid.

Dave Gibbons however definitely needs to stick to drawing.
World's Finest, whilst possessing some beautiful Steve Rude was pure drivel. It's not that he's incapable, just very dull.

11:09 / 28.06.07

Bill Willingham is one of my favourite writers, and a decent artist too but I can't help feel he shouldn't be doing both at once. He seems to benefit from a collaborator, and work so well with artists that his work suffers when he's doing both jobs.

He may not be seen much anymore but Dan Jurgans is a good solid creator who similarly benefits from doing one job at a time.

12:17 / 28.06.07

He may not be seen much anymore but Dan Jurgans is a good solid creator who similarly benefits from doing one job at a time.

Having read his 'History of the DCU' backups in 52, I can now safely say we would all benefit from Jurgens doing no jobs at any time.

Zero Hour? Death of Superman? No, clearly Dan Jurgens hates comics.

Regrettable Juvenilia

12:30 / 28.06.07

Equally, I think the skill that Bill Will should concentrate on is neither writing nor drawing comics*, but something else, whether accountancy, plumbing, or cross-country running.

*Although if I had to choose, I'd say it's the writing that needs to stop sooner. "Hello, Jack! Climbed any beanstalks lately?"

13:17 / 28.06.07

Perhaps journalism for Ha'aretz might be more his speed?

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:18 / 28.06.07

On the flip side, Keith Champagne wrote that brief story arc in Green Lantern Corps which showed a lot of promise beside him being an inker. I wouldn't mind him taking over the series from Gibbons, who's really stretching a bit too far.

03:06 / 03.07.07

Although he's a great artist, Frank Miller should concentrate more on his narrative skills these days, as these seem likely to cause more trouble

I have a theory about Miller, that his recent work is a product of frustration and not because his writing has suffered over the years. "300" was,like, the late 90s. then after that it was "DK2" (horrible) and then nothing for awhile, then "All-Star BatMan and Robin." I think his recent work (outside of film and pin-ups" is a product of him being pigeonholed and venting. I think his last two BaTMans where intentionally nonsense and a complete satire on how one note the industry has become. And how Miller, himself, a pioneer for the industry, can't move past the monster he created because of fan reaction.

Janean Patience

07:40 / 03.07.07

Miller, himself, a pioneer for the industry, can't move past the monster he created because of fan reaction.

Not true at all, I'd say. Miller has demonstrated in his career that doing whatever you want without regard for trends in the industry brings rewards. He all but abandoned Marvel and DC after The Dark Knight Returns and instead went off to do sci-fi and hardcore black and white crime comics, neither of which were popular genres at the time. As for historical comics about Spartan wars... You may hate his comics or his post 9/11 politics, but I can't see any reason for him to be frustrated when he's done whatever he wants and blazed a trail doing it.

On the subject of the thread, Bill Sienkiewicz is one of the best artists the medium's ever had and wasn't, on the basis of Stray Toasters, a bad writer either. But if he'd just been an inker he'd still be a big name. No matter who he's inking, he transforms their work. Steve Yeowell's solid blacks dissolve into a frenzy of hatching, Joe Staton's tired lines are energised and made new and abstract. Man inks like a motherfucker.

Haus of Mystery

13:03 / 03.07.07

Matt Wagner is a very strong example of someone who can both write and draw extremely well. From the philosophical meanderings of Grendel, and the restrained pulp styligs of 'Sandman Mystery Theatre' (what a fucking great title for a comic, by the way) to his recent polished and solid Batman minis, he's somewhat a master of his craft.

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

15:25 / 03.07.07

On the flip side, Keith Champagne wrote that brief story arc in Green Lantern Corps which showed a lot of promise beside him being an inker. I wouldn't mind him taking over the series from Gibbons, who's really stretching a bit too far.

I'd like that, but what I'd really like to see would be Champagne on Legion of Superheros, especially seeing as Waid's leaving anyway. I got the impression from that GLCorpse three parter that he's really got a feeling for the Legion mythos and if I'm not mistaken much love for the Bierbaum/Bierbaum/Giffen era of the title.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:29 / 03.07.07

That's an encouraging thought...Legion has been a bit bland, though I do like moments of it. Good pieces, but they haven't fit together well for me.

Mike Mignola's a better artist than he is a writer, although he's not *terrible* as a writer -- just has severe problems with plotting and clarity. He's at his best when Hellboy's just being thrown through weirdly existential big bang Kirby punching demon adventures.

15:45 / 03.07.07

I sometimes forget how out of place I am here. I really dig Willinghams writing and am looking forwards to Jurgens Booster Gold art. It's the differences that make the world interesting, eh?

Haus of Mystery

19:34 / 03.07.07

Mike Mignola's a better artist than he is a writer, although he's not *terrible* as a writer -- just has severe problems with plotting and clarity

New Hellboy mini being a case in point. It's got absolutely lovely Fegredo artwork, and I really dig hellboy, but it jusn't isn't keeping my interest. When an artist is also writing, there tends to be a fluidity to the pacing that can somewhat overcome plot deficiencies, or bad dialogue. These problems only seem to be highlighted, however, when they work with a different artist.

22:06 / 03.07.07

Jurgens is an okeh artist but a generally poor writer, though it apparently works for some folks.

I really wouldn't miss Bill Willingham if he stopped writing and drawing comics altogether. The only thing that keeps me from dismissing him entirely (aside from one or three high-mark moments of his carreer) would be that he gets some awful good press specifically for things I think he handles poorly or even offensively, so there may just be something to it I'm not getting.

I kinda like Alan Davis' writing. Not the best ever, but, seriously, I like how his moments don't flow at all half the time. When he's drawing somebody else's script, there's a sense that this scene comes after this one for a reason, or this panel flows to the next flows to... but by his lonesome, it just kinda jumps to whatever he's interested in next.

And, in regards to Frank Miller, I would remind everyone that Hell and Back (which I rather enjoyed more than some of the other Sin City yarns) came between 300 and his recent Bat-stuff. Of course, I'm suspect on Miller, and actually really like DK2.

Dave Cockrum and Mike Mignola both seem to have their extremely noticeable ups and downs putting on the writer hat. Some of it's great, great stuff (the Nightcrawler mini; early Hellboy).

I'm sure Erik Larsen is actually a better writer than I sometimes give him credit for, and suspect it's just that our sensibilities don't synch up. I think he handled Spider-Man and his supporting cast better than, well, a lot of people have since then.

Some people should just do a lot of a single book/story themselves. Adam Warren hits some high notes when he's just the writer, but it isn't the same. Kia Asamiya turned out a very nice Batman book and I'm in love with Steam Detectives, but his Uncanny run was just uncomfortable, even excusing the Chuck Austen costume designs. Lea Hernandez's art looks more sensible with her own pacing and story.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

01:16 / 04.07.07

Adam Warren hits some high notes when he's just the writer, but it isn't the same.

I had the fortune(?) to read Warren's Gen-13 run, and I felt it really faltered because he wasn't doing the art as well as the writing -- something about his sense of comedy and characterization demands his pencils to go with them. He's very much an artist/writer versus one or the other. At least in my mind.

Janean Patience

12:14 / 05.07.07

MacReady: Matt Wagner is a very strong example of someone who can both write and draw extremely well. He's somewhat a master of his craft.

Yeah but... sometimes his writing is hardly there, especially when he's doing the art. I am a fervent admirer of Grendel and absolutely love his writing there. His mainstream stuff, though, like the Batman story Faces and the recent Trinity has stunning art, really amazing simple lines and layouts that cut to the iconic hearts of the characters, and yet the stories are barely there. I can remember nothing about Trinity's plot except that Bizarro and R'as Ghul were in it and there were some nuclear warheads. I do get bored of superheroes easily but it's like he's writing as a showcase for his art rather than being the writer he can be. So in those cases a waste of both his talents.

Haus of Mystery

12:35 / 05.07.07

I disagree about 'Faces' - not only is it some of his best ever artwork, but it's a beautiful homage to Tod Browning's 'Freaks', and a strong pulp atmosphere. It's about a thousand times more memorable (IMO) than most Bat-stories of the last 10 years.
And similarly with his most recent Bat-work, I see him striving to create a timeless pulp identity for Batman, placing him in a world of secret death traps, mad monks and Monster men without resorting to pure retro-ism.
I hardly put him in the same league as Gibbons and Davis who, despite being two of the best artists in the business write desperately uncompelling work. (I can forgive the 'Nail' stories, basically cos I got them cheap, and really I could stare at Mr davis' depictions of virtually all the silver age DCU for ever)

17:55 / 05.07.07

I've noticed that almost all artist/writers tend to be a lot better at one aspect even if they are decent at both.

Right now...

Frank Miller: Should stick to art. His last few years of stories have really underwhelmed. He should try working with a writer for a few issues and try and get some new ideas. Then go back and really blow people out of the water.
Bill Willingham: Should stick to writing. He's a decent enough artist but his writing is on another level.
John Byrne: Should stick to art. When he isn't making controversial comments about fair haired Latinas looking like hookers (just look it up if you haven't read it), his art still holds up with the stuff on the market right now. His writing does not at all.
Brian Wood: Should stick to writing. He wrote DMZ, what more needs to be said? If he drew the Mona Lisa, it still wouldn't compare.

07:51 / 06.07.07

'cos i got them cheap'

or, for christmas perhaps? fucksake.

Haus of Mystery

08:44 / 06.07.07

Whoops! Sorry dude...I meant the second collection. Of course I'd never forget a present from the Cajun...

09:00 / 06.07.07

I can forgive the 'Nail' stories, basically cos I got them cheap, and really I could stare at Mr davis' depictions of virtually all the silver age DCU for eve

Isn't that precisely what Davis promised, though? Does what it says on the tin... or in the creator-interviews, anyway.

Anyhow, I find myself wanting to see more stuff from Bendis where he's drawing it. I know, I'm like one of three on this one, but I think he suited himself pretty good. And he riffed on faces/actors in ways that bothered me less than some other phot-swipe artists. And I'd like to see what a Grant Morrison-drawn book would look like circa right now.

Haus of Mystery

09:11 / 06.07.07

Hmmm. Other writer artists worth their salt...

Kyle Baker is very good when he's on form.

Eric Powell's 'Goon' is brilliantly done, a thoroughly enjoyable genre twisting romp with a wicked sense of humour (and some damn beautiful artwork to boot)

Howard Chaykin obviously - a master of his medium, who fuses text and art to spectacular effect. If only he could get over his Nazis and blowjob fetishes..

On the downside...

Walt Simonson. I adore his chunky dynamic art style, but find his writing hard to wade through. His Orion stories certainly look the part, and you can tell he's trying to do something interesting with Kirby's notoriously difficult Fourth World characters, but unfortunately the result is often pretty turgid.
I understand his Thor run is very fondly remembered. Anyone confirm this?

09:54 / 06.07.07

I found Simonson's Fantastic Four stuff to be pretty entertaining, but they just weren't the FF, unfortunately. Plot-wise and in terms of execution it was not only good comics, it was true to the series, but the characters themselves seemed off. I kinda feel that way about a lot of his work, actually.

Nobody but Kirby's got the New Gods right, yet, and the 7 Soldiers is the closest to being 'on model.'

Y'know, there's someone who was really greaty handling the dual roles: Kirby. Popular opinion and naysayers wilfilly ignored, I liked his pacing, his plotting, dialogue and everything. And the art was usually ace, too. Despite Warren Ellis calling it 'subliterate' or the various other charges and criticisms lobbed at the various series and stories. OMAC does more for me than nearly anything fresh on the stands right this moment.

10:07 / 06.07.07

Anyhow, I find myself wanting to see more stuff from Bendis where he's drawing it. I know, I'm like one of three on this one, but I think he suited himself pretty good.

Ya, Torso is good all round for my money; however, it seems unlikely, given how much of a paycheck he'd have to sacrifice and - as he say - Maleev, partiicularly, is like a better version of him artwise anyhow.

Janean Patience

10:14 / 06.07.07

I'd like to see what a Grant Morrison-drawn book would look like circa right now.

Yeah, I imagine he'd stop writing so many space-filling splashes and double-page splashes if he was the poor bastard drawing them...

10:52 / 06.07.07

well, i dunno - this sounds pretty simple but does not less panels = less lines = quicker turnover? plus more splash pages means better resale dollar for the artist later, no?

Haus of Mystery

11:13 / 06.07.07

Drawing crowd scenes = fucking headache.

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