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The Better Alternative

 
 
Janean Patience
12:13 / 23.06.07
Alternate universes are disparaged by fanboys. When House of M and 1602 were announced, Marvel had to pretend they weren't Elseworlds when they manifestly are. The fan's allegiance with, and obsession with, continuity leads them to think such stories are a waste of time. If you're in an alternate universe story there's always a reset button and a way back to where things began. Ergo it's not continuity and ignorable.

But the thing is that these alternate realities keep being created because they're more fun. I've been reading a ton of mainstream comics recently for the first time in years and I've gravitated towards these Elseworlds because they tell a story and they're actually allowed to change. Spider-man gets a new costume? It's not going to hang around because of the central contradiction that, in a universe of continuity where every development supposedly counts, nothing is allowed to change. Iron Spidey has to go because there's a film coming out, and the black costume won't last either.

In contrast, Earth X isn't real but characters change, die, have children. The dramatic events that aren't allowed in continuity, or have to be undone by Superboy punches, can go ahead and roll on in an Elseworld. That's why Superman had so many Imaginary Stories back in the 1960s, because his situation wasn't allowed to change in even the smallest detail. For him to marry, beat Luthor, reveal his identity to Lois or die it had to be imaginary.

Elseworlds allow creators to do something new. The full-bore tastelessness of Marvel Zombies couldn't ever have been allowed without an alternate universe. The Ultimates couldn't have been the ride it was with selfish, spoiled, irredeemably flawed heroes. The Age of Apocalypse, much-maligned, is actually fun and does succeed in telling the story of one big universe dying. The Cyclops of that series shows us a different side to the man, rather than him always being the hard-assed X-Men leader. Conflicted bad guy suits him quite well. Earth X itself is pretty magnificent, updating old concepts, throwing in new ones, resolving much of Kirby's madness into a single plot. (The sequels get stupidly convoluted, however.) Kingdom Come examines the Silver Age concept of heroism by testing it in the crucible of 90s and Image comics. Hell, The Dark Knight Returns is an Elseworld officially.

So. Alternative universes. Are the fans right to dislike them? What are the best ones? What are their limitations?
 
 
Mario
13:12 / 23.06.07
Alternate universes work great until they become franchises. Then they get bogged down with the same kind of storytelling baggage of the original universes: crossovers, retcons, and "event" storytelling.

Take KINGDOM COME for an example. Four issues, self-contained. Then they did the sequel, and had to mess with things to tell the stories they wanted. And then they started making changes in the DCU to make KC a believeable future. And now they are doing an arc in JSofA called "Thy Kingdom Come..."

The original story was better than average. But if it becomes just another playground....
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
15:35 / 23.06.07
...and yet, I wouldn't give that Offspring solo story for anything, Mario.
 
 
Mario
16:02 / 23.06.07
Interesting that he was the only "new" character in the crossover, no?
 
 
Jared Louderback
19:21 / 23.06.07
So much of elseworlds crap is great, I think, because there is a feeling of "We'll throw as much against the wall as we can, and whatever sticks, sticks!" There was that whole series of batman books in the ninties that were totally elseworlds, which was awsome. Red Son was great. But then you get something like the Spiderman-in-the-future Dark Knight Returns ripoff.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
20:51 / 23.06.07
Yes - and the fact that there was a glut of Elseworlds stories in the 90s and beyond is, I think, the real reason why people have recently been cynical about or hostile to the concept, rather than that The fan's allegiance with, and obsession with, continuity leads them to think such stories are a waste of time.
 
 
Janean Patience
11:09 / 25.06.07
So much of elseworlds crap is great, I think, because there is a feeling of "We'll throw as much against the wall as we can, and whatever sticks, sticks!"

Elseworlds became something to avoid because they constantly rehashed the same formula: what if the rocket from Krypton had landed in the past/in Russia/by the Waynes' limousine? What if Batman was Victorian/Edwardian/a vampire? I can't claim an extensive knowledge of them though I've read one or two, but they were at the stage where you could predict the whole story from the cover. Inside, the first hero whose path diverged from the norm begets a bunch of others. Russian Superman is joined by Russia-supporting Wonder Woman, ear-flaps Batman is a revolutionary, Hal Jordan is Gary Powers.

What If? had a similar problem. Apart from a few crazy ones where the entire Marvel Universe would end in a rush of cosmic consciousness, the reality would get over the death of Cyclops/Wolverine/Yellowjacket and reassert itself. The divergent timeline would steer back toward continuity, healing itself over. It became a formula; how would events happen like they did without a crucial element?
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
12:02 / 25.06.07
There was JLA: The Nail (the Kents get a flat tyre in a Sound of Thunder half-assed chaos theory stylee) which felt eerily 52-ish in execution, and unfortunately demonstrated that Alan Davis is the writer/artist with the highest fab & sexy art skills to far-beneath-the-pit of JMS dialogue skills ratio in comics. That was fun for the odd elements like Krypto-Starro, Black Canary leading The Outsiders (with old school Ditko Shade!) and Amish Kal-El.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:33 / 25.06.07
There was a pretty fun Green Lantern/New God war sequence in the sequel, Another Nail (groan), right before it went into "miniature Crisis on Infinite Earths" mode. That and Flash & the Atom ended up prisoners of the Crime Syndicate. He also had an Adult Legion show up, a Legion who had adventures with Barry Allen rather than Superboy. Davis really shouldn't be allowed to write his own books, because his art is beautiful but his writing is terrible.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
12:41 / 26.06.07
With the Elseworlds I read, I found myself getting annoyed that there was often an attempt to cram as many things from regular continuity in, so even if the story was 'what if Batman was a microscopic virus on Pluto' there'd always be another virus in the Commisioner Gordon mold, a Joker virus etc etc. Marvel have been a bit like that now with the Ultimates and Exiles. It seems to be there to reassure the more rabid fan that, don't worry, this isn't really a new story, it's just the same old nonsense.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
13:27 / 26.06.07
The whole Elseworlds thing of taking Batman/Superman et al and forcing them into naff Pirate/medievel/cowboy settings produced some very lacklustre uninspired stories. The irritating trend of crowbarring all elements of a character's mythos into said new settings didn't help - "Gee whizz Sheriff Olsen, that no good villain Tex Luthor is back in Smallville causing trouble" etc...
I guess because nothing was ever at stake the stories themselves felt totally inconsequential. That said I love the idea of parallel worlds, and muddled timelines. When tackled by a writer with imagination and wit the results can be fun.
Good examples I can remember off the top of my head?
Holy Terror was a decent and somewhat committed attempt to place Batman in a repressive religiou alternate world, with quite heart-rending results, and some of Norm breyfogle's best artwork.
JSA: The Liberty File worked quite well transposing Hourman and Dr Midnite into a world of WWII espionage, with enough twists and turns to keep me interested, and some nice Tony Harris art.
Fuck, I dunno... I loved the 'alternative' versions of the JLA in Grant's classic 'Key' storyline.
 
 
tickspeak
15:11 / 26.06.07
Wait wait wait...there's already been a Batman story called "Holy Terror"?
 
 
Ron Stoppable
15:37 / 26.06.07
Yup. 'Batman: Holy Terror' is the Breyfogle one. Not to be confused with 'Batman: Holy War', a half-remembered Bat vs Bombers arc or 'Holy Terror, Batman!' Frank Miller's ill-advised latest.
 
 
Ron Stoppable
15:57 / 26.06.07
In fact; hang on - has this been done?

Inspired by the reference upthread to "Kal-Els's ship landing by the Wayne's limo" - Kal-El's ship lands in Gotham and accidentally smears Thomas and Martha W. all over the alley behind picture house screening 'The Mask Of Zorro' in front of their little boy.

Hm? HMM? You can see where I'm going here, I'm sure.

Now, have I subconsciously lifted this from an existing story (very possible - there were bloody loads of them) or have I just written the Best Elseworlds Evar?

That said, some of the competition wasn't so hot - Batman: In Darkest Knight (the Green Bat-Lantern one) didn't work so well, IMHO and nor did Batman: Dynasty. I was quite fond of the Moench vampire bat trilogy: Crimson Rain(?) but overall I think that was an opportunity missed, rather than a fully successful Elseworlds.

Really, Red Son and Kingdom Come aside, a lot of the Elseworlds stuff was diappointing; not because it was poor as such but because really good ideas just seem a bit wasted, I think.
 
 
Jared Louderback
23:59 / 26.06.07
This really adds almost nothing by way of discussion, but my friend and i were talking about something earlier this week, and I was reminded of the (sort of) recent "What if !?" story in which Thor becomes Galactus's harald. My GODS, that was sooo cool!
 
 
Janean Patience
06:20 / 27.06.07
Inspired by the reference upthread to "Kal-Els's ship landing by the Wayne's limo" - Kal-El's ship lands in Gotham and accidentally smears Thomas and Martha W. all over the alley behind picture house screening 'The Mask Of Zorro' in front of their little boy.

Or, Elseworld spinning off from Elseworld, the rocket ship neatly decapitates Joe Chill, saving the Wayne's lives, and little Kal-El becomes Bruce's adopted brother and hated rival who he competes with but can never beat...

Or, as suggested previously on Barbelith, the World's Finest team meet, work a case together, find themselves unable to resist their powerful passions and make out. They become a crimefighting couple, and their ex-lovers Luthor and the Joker unite in bitter emnity against them...

Too easy, this Elseworlds stuff.
 
 
SiliconDream
05:12 / 06.07.07
I thought the actual story of The Nail was quite interesting; Krypto/Starro was a good mix of creepy and pitiful, and Jimmy the Eradicator was great. It's just the dialogue that didn't pass the Turing Test.

Excalibur's dialogue benefited greatly from a mix of Claremont and Davis: their individual tendencies toward melodrama and robotica blended into a reasonable approximation of actual human speech.
 
 
This Sunday
13:22 / 17.07.07
I like the alternate takes that make a point, or have a point they spin upon, as opposed to those who have nothing to say but have a joke or swap-out to spin on, instead.

Elseworld's Finest, by Barbara Kesel and Matt Haley nicely illustrates how effective Supergirl and Batgirl could be, how to write a Bats/Supes relationship that is antagonistic without being sharp gritty hatred, and it detourns a lot of gender-based tropes in as gentle a way as possible.

Night on Earth explicates the Batman better than his proper DCU stories usually do, and smoothly integrates what would happen to Dick Grayson or the Joker without Bats. See also, Terra Occulta's extrapolations. Other than bittersweet moments involving old men, and brainpunching, this is what Ellis does best. And interesting things to say about 'saving' and 'exploitation', both for the characters/series in question and also for, well, us.

More Ellis: The Bleed storyline from Stormwatch was damn good comics, and it not only recontextualized a lot of the Wildstorm U. to show how it worked in-continuity, but how it could work, being a cohesive small-company universe. And it had a lot of integrity and optimism, with Hawksmoor's recovering something of himself by excising the alien junk in his body despite it crippling him physically, and the wish-fulfillment 'man on a cane walking arm in arm with a beautiful girl up a staircase into the sky' bit was an elegant way to have unspeakably bad things likely happen, but giving the surviving planet below, the real and surviving people a 'better world.'

I quite liked Jim Lee's Heroes Reborn FF, especially those first six issues as a very Bruckheimer Fantastic Four movie. Felt very fresh at the time, simply because those weren't the kinds of movies that were being tapped by mainstream comics creators, and now, well, it kinda presages the whole widescreen thing without actually being widescreen comics.

Another Fantastic Four story, James Sturm's Unstable Molecules addresses the dysfunctional family, look to the stars and trip and fall in the gutter, hope/horror of the earliest FF issues quite well.

Catwoman: Guardian of Gotham is successfully filled to the brim with every sexist trope you think they could manage, including decided that the female Two-Face couldn't be D.A., and so is repositioned as a model in half-a-skirt and the Bruce/Selina relationship respun into the made-for-TV psycho-stalker zone. I did like one line in it, but really, two issues of brain-crippling material like being smacked in the face by a board with a rat-poison-laced nail in it, and one line don't cut it.

And I didn't get the point of nine tenths of that month where all the annuals were Elsworlds. The Bat-ninja story tried to kill me, I think. It wouldn't be the only thing Chuck Dixon ever wrote that had, though. On the other hand, I did like the Warren Teen Titans and the Waid Flash turns from that gimmick, as they - see a theme developing here? - had actual things to say, about the characters and about real life/people.

I enjoyed parts of the Earth/Universe/Paradise X stuff, but it was weighed down by the annoying Alex Ross ethnicity-explains-all habit, and also, well, it was just annoyingly editorialized and the madness of simplifying the entire MU totally pointless from any perspective not addicted to preserving/manifesting true continuity.

Special bonus points awarded to Savage Dragon's complete and total jump to a new reality. Old faces, sure, were all over the place, but it was well-done, well-preserved, and y'know, couldn't be done if the book had a whole publishing line to toe to.

Anybody remember a web-comic called Kiss the Girls? Stand-alone series that went about fourteen light, goofy strips and then altered its continuity to tell the story darkly and seriously... and lost itself before going away. From boob-jokes and feather-fetishes to emo misery between panels.
 
 
Ron Stoppable
09:19 / 18.07.07
Hi Decadent,

I'm intrigued by this:

the annoying Alex Ross ethnicity-explains-all habit

how do you mean?
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
09:45 / 18.07.07
I'll second that, as I currently have Earth X/Paradise X in the hopper, never having read it before, and would appreciate knowing if I'm possibly about to waste my valuable ocular bandwidth on a load of stereotyped toot.
 
 
Mario
11:14 / 18.07.07
I suspect he means stuff like "Wolverine looks like Moon Boy, so they must be related!"

It's less ethnicity than random physical similarity... he did the same thing with Nightcrawler/Belasco and Colossus/Mister Sinister.
 
 
This Sunday
12:13 / 18.07.07
Mario, that kinda thing (Wolvie=Moonboy) annoys me, too. Really, really annoys me. But, no, what I meant above was Ross' tendency to posit that if a character is not a white American male, they must have significant reasons not to be, and that their ethnicity will likely guide their entire arc. Colussus and Black Widow are a couple and rule Russia... um, because they're Russian, y'see. Sunfire; Japan. He's not the only person guilty of this, and Papers pointed out to me, in another thread (a few days ago), it's probably a result of learning about ethnic diversity through episodes of Super-Friends, but it really entirely grates.

It's the bizzaro version of Warren Ellis' attempts to make ethnic (and/or female) superheroic characters almost like real, normal, twenty-first century human beings.
 
 
Janean Patience
12:22 / 18.07.07
I currently have Earth X/Paradise X in the hopper, never having read it before, and would appreciate knowing if I'm possibly about to waste my valuable ocular bandwidth on a load of stereotyped toot.

Earth X
is damn magnificent, though I'm slightly embarrassed to be the one saying so. The John Paul Leon art is fantastic and the characterisations are imaginative and true to the characters. Ben Grimm with two orange, rocky kids makes sense; he was always a family man. Reed Richards living in Doom's castle works; he was always within touching distance of his arch-enemy. Tony Stark entombed within machines, only interacting with the world through his various armours, is a logical extrapolation of his character. Because all these characters spring from Ross's sketches they make visual sense before they make storytelling sense, which is a nice way of imagining a future. And, without revealing SPOILER details, the story of that first series ties together some epic Kirby visuals with existing Marvel continuity quite brilliantly. It lives up to Kirby's day-glo cosmic visions like little else has.

The sequels? As Mario says above, Alternate universes work great until they become franchises. Then they get bogged down with the same kind of storytelling baggage as the original universes.

Universe X
and Paradise X immediately squander the joy of Earth X. They piss in the mythpool. The former tries to tie everything that's ever been published by Marvel into a coherent continuity, an exhausting and debilitating process which includes the Micronauts in a central role. It's so confusing, and backtracks on itself so many times, that it's more like Foucault's Pendulum than a fun superstory. Imagine being buttonholed in a bar by a guy who wants to explain to you, in detail, which appearances of the Cosmic Cube were real and which were false and won't stop talking.

The last series is less painful and actually has a story to tell but you'll neither be able to follow it or care by then. Stick to the first book: alternative worlds at their finest.
 
 
The Falcon
12:26 / 18.07.07
Well, yes; much as I enjoyed Earth X the whole Black Panther and Storm must marry as they are African and - oh, the former is half animal now because, well... they're in touch with the animals, aren't they? The Africans - it's like Ross, with his uncritical love of simplistic Silver Age tropes*, considers race as as inherent or more to the characters above as their powers or personality. %Latter of which is predicated by race, obvs.%

But it's still a decent and compelling comic, stunningly drawn, if punctuated by irrelevant highbrow quotations and so forth. The sequels are utter wank, though.

* but adultifiable, of course, vis "Black Manta is the Malcolm X of the sea". Mature readers.
 
 
The Falcon
12:27 / 18.07.07
Slight, and hurried, x-post there.
 
 
Janean Patience
13:38 / 18.07.07
It's like Ross, with his uncritical love of simplistic Silver Age tropes, considers race as as inherent or more to the characters above as their powers or personality.

I dunno... there's a strong tradition in the Marvel Universe of assuming that only the heroes are important or matter. Brian Braddock's ruling Britain in Earth X and Europe in the Age of Apocalypse. Sunfire rules Japan in both. It's lazy writing - create a whole new world! use all the old characters in obvious configurations! bring back Gwen Stacey! - but I'm not sure there's much more to it than an unthinking acceptance of Silver Age attitudes to race. Being true to the character and the creators' original vision, John Byrne and his sycophants would call it.
 
 
This Sunday
14:31 / 18.07.07
An 'unthinking acceptance' of that sort is just as racist and annoying, as any other excuse, though. I don't see him writing Peter Parker as King of America married to Susan Richards, for example. And I'll reiterate, the Black Panther, now actually panther-like, has occupied an African nation with animal-men who only echo their overlord godkings thoughts back to him and serve. Right.

Just because twenty or thirty years ago it was common practice to put 'Black' before any African-descended character's name, even when it makes no sense, like 'Black Lightning,' does not mean it wasn't offensive then, and it certainly doesn't defend continuing the trait into today and tomorrow. Same for any generic, lazy, hammered-on ethnic stereotyping with no other traits to distinguish them. This is where Ross offends more than most of the actual silver age writers, is that he doesn't seem to understand there should be more angles to a character than their ethnicity (and maybe their gender). It's not really useful to have Colossus be all totalitarian Russkie tyrant because we presumably believe that's how all Russians are - ignoring for the moment that he married the Black Widow, because she's Russian - or turning good-natured, slightly pugnacious alcoholic engineer with a semi-medical background into a beardy King Arthur of great seriousness because he's British in a Britain populated by Dragon(man)s and various Britishy tropes not resembling actual British comics, overmuch, nor possessing anything resembling a British Punisher or Spider-Man.

And obsessiveness at cataloging a fictional reality that requires you to knock out whole chunks or make six characters really one, using different names or existing in different times, is only cool and interesting if you're Phillip Farmer and you have other interesting, cool things to say using those composite characters. I kinda like Krueger's handling of Ross' ideas sometimes, but those little Wizard extras with Ross' sketches and notes? Argh! Ack! does not express gutturally enough.
 
 
Janean Patience
09:12 / 31.08.07
Darwyn Cooke's The New Frontier deserves mention here because it is an alternative universe, even though it's not wilfully different to what's canon. Cooke steals a trick from Alan Moore's Supreme and puts the Silver Age heroes in the historical and political climate in which they were created, and it works a treat. The Flash is a product of the 1950s faith in science and speed, J'onn J'onzz co-exists with that decade's xenophobia and fear of the unknown, Hal Jordan is a test pilot, the Challengers represent the battle of science against mystery. And the Losers, heroes from another era, get a valedictory battle of their own. Set against their proper historical contexts, the Red scares and economic prosperity and the Cold War, these characters have a weight they don't enjoy in the ordinary DC universe. There, Flash is important because he's the premier super-speedster. Here, he's science and speed and streamlining and the target of covert agencies desperate to control the explosion of knowledge in the post-war years. It's just a shame Cooke's elegant construction and beautiful art ended with nothing but a big fight against an ordinary enemy.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
09:58 / 31.08.07
Anyone remember Justice Riders? Justice League in the wild west. I really like dthat one, for a couple of reasons. Firstly it was that rare thing of an Elseworld refraction of then current continuity, so it mirrored what was actually going on in the comics at the time of it's production, which appealed to me at the time.

I was also pleased by what they did with the characters. J'onn became a man-hunter, a bounty hunter (natch) Booster Gold a Maverick style card sharp, Blue Beetle an eccentric inventor, Guy Gardner an agent of the Pinkertons, Hawkman a shaman, Wally Flash a deputy who had to replace his Mentor, and Wonder Woman a sheriff that rallied them all together.

Couple it up with one of Chuck Dixons better scripts and atmospheric art (character logos apearing in the gaps between panels, combining and mosaic-ing as the group converge) and it made a pretty fun Western take on the characters, familiar but different and though I've not read it in years I retain fond memories.
 
 
Aertho
15:39 / 31.08.07
It's just a shame Cooke's elegant construction and beautiful art ended with nothing but a big fight against an ordinary enemy.

Yeah!

I loved New Frontier, but it built toward an enormous battle with an alien enemy that just kind of fell out of the subplots and onto the resolution. I get that the point off the battle was to bring all these disparate heroes together to work with the government and people they didnt agree with, but.

It was the cool laid back tone and constant streaming of mid 20th century culture that had me thinking there'd be something much more [clever?] at the finale.
 
  
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