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"It's just like taking over the Family Pub"

 
 
Alex's Grandma
18:06 / 20.06.07
I've often wondered about this.

Martin Amis, who was responsible for the above quote, might be considered the exception that proves the rule, arguably because Dad was never likely (as, I fear, is now proving to be the case) to go down in posterity; certainly, as far as Amis himself is concerned, he's the only example of genuine literary talent being passed down through the genes. Which is a moot point, I guess, but it does seem as if the likes of Ted Heller, William Burroughs Jr and Auberon Waugh have struggled with following in the parental footsteps, in terms of their work - Burroughs Jr famously drank himself to death after writing one (actually quite well-received) book, Auberon Waugh gave the whole thing up as a bad job after several attempts to outpace the legacy, and Ted Heller, as far as I know, is still publishing his work somewhere, although possibly with his own money these days.

So it's a disadvantage, on the face of it, to be the son of a famous literary property, if you've any ambitions in that direction yourself (I think I'd be inclined to get a job in the City, really - anything to avoid the crushing weight of expectation, as much my own as anyone else's) but if there are any advantages, what might those be?
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
18:34 / 20.06.07
Why "son?" Is there a separate Sophia-Coppola-type trajectory for writers where it only seems to be the guys that suffer from the mantle-passing process, but women do okay?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
19:34 / 20.06.07
I did give that some thought, Matt.

I don't know, to be honest - I couldn't come up with an example of a father-daughter (or, actually, mother-son, or any of the other possible permutations) that would have applied in quite the same way.

Sophia Coppola being a film-maker, rather than a novelist, and this being a forum about Books.

The title of the thread is not deceptive.
 
 
grant
19:35 / 20.06.07
Mariel Hemingway did OK as an actress, but her cousin Hilary Hemingway didn't meet much success as a novelist. She was, however, involved in some successful TV production... ah, Dexter, based on Jeff's crime novels. I don't know if she's credited as co-writer on those or not (she is on Dream Land).
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
19:40 / 20.06.07
On female writers - isn't Kiran Desai the daughter of Anita Desai? & since Kiran Desai has actually won the Booker whereas Anita has merely been nominated, it obviously hasn't been a disadvantage in terms of that type of success.

Sorry Gran, doesn't answer your question - I don't know enough about them to say whether it might have been actually advantageous.
 
 
matthew.
19:59 / 20.06.07
Mary Shelley and her mum? Does that fit the profile?
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
21:57 / 20.06.07
Richard Christian Matheson appears to do okay, though it's possible that working in the less respectable genre of horror, and succeeding an admittedly lionized writer of science fiction, might mean there was less critical pressure to come up with the goods. But I don't have any serious evidence for this.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
22:24 / 20.06.07
I have no interest in reading the latest Tolkien release, "edited" by his son, but I am slightly curious. It fits the profile, kind of.

There's a slight SF/F tradition of children assembling books based on dad's notes. Tolkien; before him, didn't Frank Herbert get thoroughly cannibalized by his offspring?

I thought Ianthe Brautigan had written more than a biography of her father, but I guess I was wrong.
 
 
Bandini
10:20 / 21.06.07
I'm a huge fan of John Fante and discovered his son Dan Fante through him and am really enjoying his books too (currently reading Dan Fante - Spitting off Tall Buildings).
From his bio though it seems like he has struggled as much as his father in his life and his professional career so perhaps it hasn't helped having the father he had.
Having said that i wonder if i would have got turned onto Dan Fante if it wasn't for John Fante.
Perhaps it just helps being next to your dads books in a bookshop.
I remeber hearing a story about a band who named themselves just so they would be next to a band they liked in record shops (wish i could remember who it was).
 
 
petunia
12:36 / 21.06.07
It was Eels. The frontman had released albums as 'E' and they wanted to be next to those albums.

They forgot about the Eagles.

/rot
 
 
Blake Head
13:02 / 21.06.07
I did wonder when I saw the name, Bandini. The thing with Dan Fante is that whatever his literary talent I've always thought he retreads a lot of the same ground as his father's books, slightly updated, and, in my opinion, without such a degree of talent or originality. Given that many of his books focus on semi-autobiographical material I've always felt that, while enjoying them, if anything his own stories were swamped both in terms of style and content by his father's career.
 
 
DaveBCooper
14:05 / 21.06.07
Wasn't Esperanza Wilde a respected writer long before her son Oscar was? I could be wrong there.

I guess that Joe Hill would count, being the son of Stephen King. He seems to be getting good reviews, but now his family name's out, I think that's likely to cast a long shadow (not read any of it myself, just the coverage).
 
 
Bandini
14:17 / 21.06.07
I think you're probably right Blake Head. I'm probably quite biased but even a retread of his fathers' material is perhaps enough for me. But that's quite sad if that is what an author becomes - merely a faded photocopy of his father.
But, how can you neglect the influence of the father. Not necessarily creatively but in their personal life. i have no doubt that Dan Fante's upbringing led to the subject and style of his writing and if his father had never written a word his books would still be the same. It's perhaps just he got there first.
If John Fante's father, Nicola, was an author perhaps i may think that John was Nicola's lesser.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
15:39 / 21.06.07
What might be worth noting is that while being the child of a hugely successful author might have all these serious disadvantages, in many cases it's still neccesary, or at least very, very useful, to be the child of someone generally "big" to become successful at all - I'm thinking of Woolf and her father, and also Matthew Arnold, in both of which cases the parent/s of the author had lots of connections.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
15:41 / 21.06.07
Also - remember that we might wish to question the idea of the individual talent or genius. I'm not sure if that's relevant at all here, but remember that an author is a social construct, and the text is separate from the author, and so on.
 
 
Lysander Stark
16:11 / 21.06.07
What about the journalists, and therefore sorta authors (they have published books a little?) Giles Coren and (for the sake of the not-just-blokes side of the argument) Victoria Coren, his sister, both the esteemed offspring of the esteemed journalist, satirist and humorist Alan Coren? That is a whole little cottage industry of Corens! And they all have their skills and entertainment value, though perhaps are not on the Amis scale in their endeavours. Is this nature or nurture or nepotism?

Poor Kingsley. I value Lucky Jim more than any of his son's works, yet oblivion nibbles at his authorial toes...
 
 
Blake Head
17:27 / 21.06.07
Well, it's interesting I suppose that John Fante, while respected in some circles, wasn't massively successful in his own lifetime or ultimately able to live off his (novel) writing, and never really became a popular writer, certainly not a major literary figure. While his son's fictional account of his life dwells on the tragedy of his lost years, and the general oeuvre of postponed or wasted authorial talent, it also seems trapped in repeating the same patterns. There's probably something in there about that relationship being a very direct example of some sort of anxiety of influence: either one's writing stretches beyond that of one's literary forebears or is contained within it, though I'm not sure how far you could go productively with that theory.

Incidentally, I've just read Once More With Feeling (co-written by Victoria Coren) and it's very good, touching and eye-opening at the same time. Although, yes, not a great literary work. But there's something that's quite competitive and as suggested by AG, masculine, about being attentive to the influence of other "great" works. There doesn't seem to me to need to be that desire to outstrip one's parent as a great literary fgure, rather than gain whatever measure of success in a career of one's own choosing, unless one feels the need to acknowledge that influence. One could of course choose to write and seek to avoid or disregard comparisons to one's parent quite happily. I don't know that we'd be able to determine nature or nurture without knowing more personally about the individual authors/kids.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
05:43 / 22.06.07
I would argue that the Tolkiens don't really fit in here because the son is working only with his fathers material, editing it and writing his own words only when he can't find the text his father wrote or there's confusion between versions. I think I read somewhere that one of Christopher's sons in a novelist though.

(Christopher's books about the writing of LotR are quite interesting, though I'm not enough of a fan to read the whole series of books on either side)
 
 
Whisky Priestess
10:33 / 23.06.07
It must be bloody difficult, is what I reckon.

Although not, perhaps, as difficult as breaking in to the publishing world from a standing start, knowing no agents and having no connections whatsoever. If the parent breaks that ground first then the child will naturally have an advantage in the same field - not only of the talent/inclination to write, but also of seeing their parent make a success of what is, frankly, a fucking hard vocation to live off - "novelist" being seen as an actual, feasible career choice rather than a slow route to working in McDonald's. Not to mention growing up around authors, publishers, agents, journos and literary types in general.

Of course, the child still has to write something halfway decent to get it published - nepotism only goes so far. Rebecca Miller's doing well, I believe Erica Jong's daughter is published, there's the ever-spawning Freud dynasty, and so forth.

There's a lot more of this sort of thing, incidentally, in acting - where the idea of a dynasty is reinforced by the physical resemblance of child to parent. Off the top of my head, in Hollywood the Douglases, the Sheens, the Barrymores, Goldie Hawn's daughter - in England, Rafe Spall, Emilia Fox, Rory Kinnear - all talented both because and in spite of their fathers. Apart from Milly Fox, who isn't, frankly, all that all that, but is desperately ornamental.
 
  
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