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Video Presentation by Jamie Maussan - A Discussion on Anomalous Phenomena

  
  

Page: 1(2)3

 
 
EmberLeo
07:32 / 24.06.07
Why are you not uncomfortable with the idea of Angels, Faeries, Sea Devils or Ghosts in exactly the same way?

That's what I'm processing, and I don't know how to articulate my initial conclusions yet, honestly. For lack of a better way to put it, it just feels horribly wrong. Maybe it's just a question of conceptual familiarity. Aliens are, after all, alien.

*sigh* So far, what I've got is that the world in this physical reality we normally refer to as "Earth" is part of a larger set that includes places like those we call Faerie, Asgard, Heaven, Hades, The Astral Plane etc. - various Otherworlds.

I don't know how it all fits together, but my awareness of it in gestalt is that the connections between here and all those otherworlds have always been a part of the picture. It's a mistake to ever have considered this physical reality sepparate from the otherworlds our mythology refers to so constantly. It's a mistake to think ghosts and spirits aren't normal aspects of the world we've always been in.

But... each inhabited planet in this Universe would have its own set of connected Otherworlds, with its own set of relationships between the locals of those worlds.

So it's quite natural for Angels, Fey, etc. to interact with us here, and quite natural for aliens on some other physical planet to interact with their gods, but it's invasive for aliens to come here. And we might find ourselves quite overwhelmed by the local otherworlds if we ever colonized a planet somewhere else.

I'm as afraid of inhabitants from local Otherworlds, and the spirits of this world, as I am of natural disasters like Earthquakes. The danger exists, but it doesn't mean there's something wrong.

... *shrugs* That's my best attempt thus far to articulate a conception that I am aware rests on a deep emotional level. I know it's not unrelated to my sense of why I shouldn't bother trying to remember past lives - who knows what the hell I might have been, or what world I may have existed in.

I don't presume to call it rational, so don't bother telling me it's illogical. I still don't even really know what it's based on.

--Ember--
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
08:18 / 24.06.07
So it's quite natural for Angels, Fey, etc. to interact with us here, and quite natural for aliens on some other physical planet to interact with their gods, but it's invasive for aliens to come here.

Racism on an interplanetary scale... Nice :P
 
 
Ticker
11:50 / 24.06.07
I'm as afraid of inhabitants from local Otherworlds, and the spirits of this world, as I am of natural disasters like Earthquakes. The danger exists, but it doesn't mean there's something wrong.

So you're comfortable with what you possibly perceive as the vertical axis of Otherworlds but not the perceived horizontal ones?

Methinks your perception of 'inside' and 'outside' is being colored by what has been presented to you as normal. For many folks beings crossing back from the Land of the Dead is extremely upsetting because it upsets what they perceive as the natural order. Obviously we don't have that discomfort because we have experienced the movement and our traditions support it.

I would point out there are traditions of beings from other planets visiting wrapped up into spiritual traditions.The Dogon in Africa spring to mind. a randomly selected book on the Dogon mystery.
 
 
EvskiG
12:48 / 24.06.07
People say, "Well, they're interdimensional" and I say, "Yes, and they're also extraterrestrial and physical. Those are not two mutually exclusive things if you understand the full spectrum of nature and reality and how there are folded within every dimension access points to every other dimension and in fact, when you go through interstellar space at multiples of the speed of light, you are dropping out of 3-D material form and moving into a form that the mystics would have called the astral, or the near-physical and this is what these are.

There are so many bogus -- or at least questionable -- assumptions in this sentence that it should go in the pseudoscience topic.

"[T]here are folded within every dimension access points to every other dimension."

Maybe, especially if you see this as a slightly distorted version of David Bohm's speculation about an implicate and explicate order. But why assert it as a fact?

"[W]hen you go through interstellar space at multiples of the speed of light, you are dropping out of 3-D material form and moving into a form that the mystics would have called the astral, or the near-physical and this is what these are."

What the fuck? Since I assume he's not speaking from practical experience, and since I doubt he's a theoretical physicist with a revolutionary new theory based on empirical evidence, what's his basis for saying that?

Why are you not uncomfortable with the idea of Angels, Faeries, Sea Devils or Ghosts in exactly the same way?

Sounds to me like EmberLeo may be uncomfortable with the idea of aliens because they don't fit into a familiar model or cosmology. Which is understandable.
 
 
---
13:46 / 24.06.07
There are so many bogus -- or at least questionable -- assumptions in this sentence that it should go in the pseudoscience topic.

Heh, it's probably pseudoscience compared to our known definitions anyway, so it might belong there.

Maybe, especially if you see this as a slightly distorted version of David Bohm's speculation about an implicate and explicate order. But why assert it as a fact?

What the fuck? Since I assume he's not speaking from practical experience, and since I doubt he's a theoretical physicist with a revolutionary new theory based on empirical evidence, what's his basis for saying that?

Not sure why he says it in such a matter-of-fact way, but I think it's the witnesses, and the knowledge they have that he's picked up theory from. (ex-NASA scientists, Skunk Works aircraft designers, USAF, Army, Navy, MoD, etc, etc.) Or maybe it's all bullshit, fuck knows. I just saw his video last night and have read a bit on him since then. If he's for real though and his witnesses are telling the truth, well....heh, I guess things will start hitting the fan over the next few years, all being well.
 
 
Papess
12:24 / 25.06.07
Okay, I would like to dig into this more, and yet I find I'm not sure I want to know. That's a weird place for me to be, because normally I want to know everything I can.-EmberLeo

I can relate to this, and to having fears about all this. However, I don't even think that knowing what all of this phenomena is all about would necessarily alleviate that fear. Well, I am certainly concerned. Could you imagine what the irrefutable presence of aliens would do to some people's minds? It is scary to think about the reactions. How would people wrestle their notions of "god" and religion? What if some of them are hostile? What if they aren't and they are perceived that way anyway?

That is why it angers me to think that anyone would want to hide this, or cover it up. It is like a dysfunctional family secret. Something that is hushed up, or denied. That makes me angry.

"I'm personally more interested in questions like : what are they doing here? what are they trying to tell us? how closely are we related to them? (looking from a dependant-origination angle.) how are we going to learn to communicate with them? how are we going to learn what pisses them off and what doesn't? are they split into a groups helping us and groups trying to expliot and manipulate us? are they entering and leaving other dimensions/vibrations, and how can we learn more about that? are people in different continents seeing what they've been conditioned to see, so we're seeing the same thing under different lenses when it comes to craft and images of lights/beings/etc?"-Te

These are the questions that interest me, as well.

As XK states with: "...I like using Known, Unknown, Unknowable as causes and having things be movable between.
I think working towards moving things in the Unknown category to the Known is a Good Thing...

And asking questions is a part of that.

...however for sanity one must be aware that there are some things that are actually rooted in the Unknowable."

Indeed. For sanity's sake.

"It is MO that one can clearly trace the grey alien manifestation to the lineage of magical work of one Alistair Crowley. Basically his personal Daimon Lam got imprinted onto the collective and started xeroxing as the template of the time for a certain section of the Daimonic delivery system."-XK

Certainly Crowley would be proud, but don't forget to give Parsons and Hubbard their due! The "louts".

Now, the theory of the manifestations of daimonic human mind is an interesting one. However, I find saying that these things are a manifestations of our/my mind is a bit superfluous. Wouldn't all manifestation have that quality, then?

I think there is a danger here to believe that nothing has any inherent quality unless it emanates from a human. - however, I am not saying that is the daimonic theory, I am saying it seems like one of the dangers. As Te said: "That's the essence of it though as far as I can tell. The fact that if we're going to be serious about this, we shouldn't sweep the 'aliens in this physical reality' under the carpet. It's like, we're ok as long as they're in some other dimension fucking around doing this and that, but when it comes to the idea that they could be here, physical, and affecting the substance of our reality, people don't want to pursue it as much."

I agree with that. I think it is a whole lot less scary to think that we are in control of these in some way. Perhaps it is what is so different about this bit of phenomena - they have found a way to get from "otherworld" to this physical reality. Out of all the places they could have gone? I don' think that makes them unlikely to be "physically real", I think it is more likely that they have an agenda. Hopefully it is a peaceful agenda, but suddenly there is a possibility that we are no longer at the top of the food chain.

Maybe a more mathematically skilled individual can figure out what the guy in this next series of videos is explaining, and if it is legit or even relevant, for that matter. He seems to be explaining in the first couple of videos, the image that Te reposted from the presentation - the one with the binary/ASCII code.

This guy in the video talks a lot about "The Watchers", as well. Which, I think ties into daimonic/otherworld theory. He seems to have a theory about how these things overlap, anyway - to elaborate on grant's diagram. :-)

The 2012 Ouroboros Doomsday Clock. (Part 1 of 9)
The 2012 Ouroboros Doomsday Clock. (Part 2 of 9)
The 2012 Ouroboros Doomsday Clock. (Part 3 of 9)
The 2012 Ouroboros Doomsday Clock. (Part 4 of 9)
The 2012 Ouroboros Doomsday Clock. (Part 5 of 9)
The 2012 Ouroboros Doomsday Clock. (Part 6 of 9)
The 2012 Ouroboros Doomsday Clock. (Part 7 of 9)
The 2012 Ouroboros Doomsday Clock. (Part 8 of 9)
The 2012 Ouroboros Doomsday Clock. (Part 8.5 of 9)
The 2012 Ouroboros Doomsday Clock. (Part 9 of 9)
 
 
EmberLeo
21:24 / 25.06.07
Racism on an interplanetary scale... Nice :P

That was unkind, and uncalled-for.

--Ember--
 
 
EmberLeo
21:33 / 25.06.07
Methinks your perception of 'inside' and 'outside' is being colored by what has been presented to you as normal.

I don't know, because a lot of these worlds weren't presented to me as normal, but didn't register as problematic when I first encountered them either. I mean my parents taught me to trust my own instincts, and taught me the Astral plane exists, but they never taught me Ljosalfheim exists or anything.

*thinks* Actually, it's more likely the other way around - the idea of aliens, etc. was probably presented to me as a problem, and so while various things I've encountered personally seem just fine to me because my instincts didn't say "This is seriously out of band" even if they said "This is a potential danger to you", when I mentally shift interpretations to the Man-in-Black and Alien interpretations, it's really disturbing to me.

So you're comfortable with what you possibly perceive as the vertical axis of Otherworlds but not the perceived horizontal ones?

I'm not sure if you mean this literally? I definitely don't percieve them on the axes you are citing - for example, my internal map of the 9 Germanic/Norse worlds is 3 dimensional, not all stacked on the Y axis.

--Ember--
 
 
EmberLeo
07:31 / 26.06.07
Many hours later:

I think I've put a finger on another bit of it.

If these things are from what I previous referred to as "local" worlds, then they are from worlds our world has in turn influenced. It's interactive. We all evolved together, one way or another.

I think I carry an assumption that if they are aliens from elsewhere entirely, that influence is one way. They poke at us, for good or ill, but they're untouchable to us. We don't influence them in return beyond the specific points where they choose to initiate contact.

That seems to be part of what bothers me.

--Ember--
 
 
Quantum
09:57 / 26.06.07
See, the things you're saying make me think of the Fae. Much scarier than Greys.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:04 / 26.06.07
Personally I'm sort of reserving judgment until I meet some.
 
 
*
15:30 / 26.06.07
I think I'm also interplanetarily racist, if that's what you'd like to call being particularist about beings-from-other-planets phenomena—I have no trouble operating in the framework of magic, Gods, nature spirits, ancestors, Fey, "energy" whatever and just separating it from my generally established-science-friendly worldview. Somehow, though, when aliens come into the picture I have a reflexive "BWAHAHAthat's silly" reaction. Possibly because I've heard the aliens explained with so much identifiably pseudoscience bullshit so many times that I can't separate them in the way I do my religious framework, or possibly I've just internalized their sillification in the media in a way I haven't internalized the sillification of fairies and wicked witches.
 
 
EmberLeo
18:48 / 26.06.07
See, the things you're saying make me think of the Fae. Much scarier than Greys.

See my above comment re Natural Disasters.

--Ember--
 
 
Quantum
08:22 / 27.06.07
Here's a site about how to make crop circles.
 
 
Papess
11:26 / 27.06.07
So, until I get a hold of Harpur's book, I am trying to figure out the Daimonic/Otherworld theory. So, I found this.

From the link above:
"The daimons of subatomic "inner space" are called particles, although strictly speaking they aren't—elecrons, for example, are both particles and waves at the same time. They are paridoxical, both there and not-there, like faeries. Like UFOs they cannot be measured exactly: we can calculate their speed, or their position, but not both. This, roughly, is what Werner Heisenberg called the Uncertainty Principle, and it applies to all daimonic phenomena. We cannot know subatomic particles in themselves; we can only identify them via their daimonic traces. Like minute yetis, they used to leave tracks in vats of detergent placed at the bottom of mines; nowadays they are more likely to leave their spoor on computer screens linked to particle accelerators."

Is that a good example of how Daimonic theory is applied?
 
 
Quantum
13:32 / 27.06.07
Not really, the bit before that has the Quantum=Fairy red flag;

Everything that is predicated of [the nuclear physicist's subatomic realm] could, for instance, be applied with equal justice to the land of Fairy. Both worlds invert the cozy Newtonian world we inhabit: laws of time, space, causality and, of course, matter are ignored. (Once past the "event horizon" of a black hole, say the astrophysicists, time slows to a standstill; or, once inside the black hole, it "runs backwards".) Subatomic physics introduces extra dimensions—"string theory" allows for ten, I think: our four, plus six more, compacted very tightly. Multi-dimensionality is a staple of science fiction and ufology.

All those things also apply to dreams, or the Marvel Universe, or the Matrix, or a roleplaying game.
The stuff about the black hole is irrelevant (and wrong, time doesn't go backwards in a black hole), the extra dimensions of string theory are not parallel worlds so the prevalence or not of sci-fi Multi-dimensionality is also irrelevant. Harpur's stuff is more on human understanding of phenomena IIRC.
 
 
Quantum
13:44 / 27.06.07
Offtopic physics fact- to detect neutrinos (which sleet through the earth like bullets through fog) they had to put the detectors down mines to screen out all other radiation. They had to use something with a fat nucleus, and loads of it, to maximise the chance of intercepting one or two neutrinos a year, so chlorine or bleach was commonly used in tanks of thousands of gallons. So the bit when the writer says Like minute yetis, they used to leave tracks in vats of detergent placed at the bottom of mines is quite true. But irrelevant.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
14:09 / 27.06.07
It is MO that one can clearly trace the grey alien manifestation to the lineage of magical work of one Alistair Crowley. Basically his personal Daimon Lam got imprinted onto the collective and started xeroxing as the template of the time for a certain section of the Daimonic delivery system.

Not sure about that. AC didn't really write anything about LAM, it's just a picture he did of one of the "Secret Chiefs". Kenneth Grant ties LAM into the whole grey phenomenon, and I'm more than a bit hesitant to start taking Kenny G ideas quite so literally. There isn't really much evidence that AC intended that to be an alien. It could just be a pretty meaningless doodle one afternoon on a bit of paper, which people are then making a big deal out of. I think there's a strong chance that the similarity of that drawing to what has later become known as a "Grey" is totally coincidental. It's an aesthetically pleasing idea, that this version of the extra-terrestrial has its source in Crowley, but I am a long way from being convinced by any evidence I've seen that the two things are in any way related.
 
 
Ticker
13:19 / 10.07.07
pretty youtube volcano visitor footage

GL, I'll have to go dig out my sources but I read a good deal of material on Grant making Lam a priority for the OTO focus per AC's instructions re: "The Lam Statement". The research seemed to indicate a great deal of magical work went into Lam interactions by the greater body of OTO members especially in America. so less AC and more OTO inspired by AC. Then of course the greys got wider play via Whitley Strieber and the Xfiles.


from one of the many online articles quoting the Lam Statement:

view to "regularizing the mode of rapport and constructing a magical formula for establishing communication with Lam." We are told first of all that:

"It has been considered advisable by the Sovereign Sanctuary to regularize and to examine results achieved by individual members of the OTO who have established contact with the magical entity known as Lam. We are therefore founding an Inner Cult of this dikpala for the purpose of amassing precise accounts of such contacts...

The portrait of (Lam) which is reproduced in The Magical Revival may be used as the visual focus, and can serve as the Yantra of the Cult; the name Lam is the Mantra; and the Tantra is the union with the dikpala by entering the Egg of Spirit represented by the Head. Entry may be affected by projecting consciousness through the eyes..."

And elsewhere, in a section titled The Magical Procedure:

The Mode of Entering the Egg may proceed as follows. Each votary is encouraged to experiment and evolve his own method from the basic procedure:

1) Sit in silence before the portrait.
2) Invoke mentally my silent repetition the Name.
3) If response is felt to be positive...enter the Egg and merge with That which is within, and look out through the entity's eyes on what appears now to the votary an alien world.
4) Seal the Egg, i.e., close the eyes of Lam and await developments.



For fun...

Whitley Strieber's site's repost of Thoth Web's 'Did Magicians Cause UFO Sightings?'

Of particular interest to me as a Fortean are the patterns by which the Entities' presentation changes. In the collected long term data there seems to be very clear timelines of types of aliens while what they say to contactees seems to be for the most part the same. So for me magicans, especially AC, didn't invent or cause the overall phenomenon specifically but I do think we can trace how magical work and more importantly collective imaginative human effort can shape the filters through which the manifestation occurs. The greys are one of many cultural forms and perhaps one we can trace the evolution of a bit more clearly.

as an interesting aside...
Where have the Nordic super types so prevelant in the 50's gone? Well in some of the reports out of the 90's we had hybrid super types with greys which claimed to be the results of human breeding programs.

the stolen child/genetic material aspect of abductions and hybrids has a truck load of common themes with fairy tales, incubus/succubus, and world mythologies of divine offspring. Each camp of interpretation sorts the info accordingly (fairy tales are records of alien abductions, alien abductions are records of fairy abductions etc).
 
 
grant
14:26 / 10.07.07
footnote:
Then of course the greys got wider play via Whitley Strieber and the Xfiles.

You might be underestimating the impact of Close Encounters of the Third Kind, which was probably the first time mainstream America (and the rest of the world) was exposed to the grey "look," and 10 years before Streiber wrote Communion.
 
 
Ticker
14:36 / 10.07.07
you're probably right grant, but that movie hurts me so I tend to not think about it.
 
 
Papess
14:58 / 14.07.07
Not really, the bit before that has the Quantum=Fairy red flag

Well that just plain old sucks rocks then, Quantum, because deoxy.org is stating it as a direct quote from Daimonic Reality: A Field Guide to the Otherworld by Patrick Harpur

Perhaps, just maybe, we need to accept that our science and possibly our own consciousness is not able to solve this issue in it's current form.

For example, I found this on fairies and UFOs. I thought this might be a useful analogy:

"Think of how a group of monkeys in the wild perceive human beings. Because their own level of consciousness is so limited, they cannot comprehend that we humans are beyond being just another kind of animal. They may see a jet or a helicopter or a car, but to the monkeys, nothing in their consciousness can explain these amazing things.

A monkey may think of an airplane as some kind of magical giant bird. They relate to it with the level of understanding they have about their environment. The speculation of the monkey, at best, is a crude idea about the total truth of an airplane, and the fact it represents entire levels of consciousness that are so advanced, they are literally invisible to monkey mind. "

Not to insult anyone here, or the entire human race, but maybe our highest scientific understanding is just not applicable? Perhaps, even if the truth were to be plastered before us in scientific terms, we would laugh it off as unfounded, simply due to the fact that it is not within our ability to comprehend, and not because it "just isn't true".

My theory is that there are states of being that do defy our scientific evidence and our definition of what is considered "science" and "evidence" is.

Human being are not fully evolved, even if we do consider ourselves the most evolved species on Earth. (Perhaps, cockroaches think are highly evolved, I dunno.) Although, some schools of thought would disagree with me, perhaps. For me, it is either that, or we suffer from an exceptional case of forgetfullness. Possibly, due to the nature of our current human condition of being bound to time and space in the form of cyclic existence.

Another point I have some trouble with is believing that our Earth is the only place in the entire multiverse that supports life. Which, a lot of the Otherworld/UFO/Fey theory seems to suggest, (at least, thus far in my reading). Is it not possible that are extraterrestrials as well as ultraterrestrials? Perhaps, as we evolve, those terms will have less meaning.
 
 
Papess
17:41 / 14.07.07
as an interesting aside...
Where have the Nordic super types so prevelant in the 50's gone? Well in some of the reports out of the 90's we had hybrid super types with greys which claimed to be the results of human breeding programs.

Maybe those notions are going the way of racism? Not implying that you are racist, at all, XK. I am saying, is that the media of the '50, especially in the West, would probably not think twice about representing a super-race as blond-haired, blue-eyed godlike beings. Fear of which, would only be heightened by Hitler's WWII propoganda of re-creating an Aryan race, (not so long ago from then). Somehow, I think these things may be related.

Also, I found this information dating from 1938 when archaeologist Chi Pu Tei discovered graves in the Baian Kara Ula mountains near the Sino-Tibetan border.

He found the skeletons to be about 4 feet 4 inches tall, with 'oversized' heads in relation to their otherwise 'slender' frame. At first he suggested that these might be the remains of an unknown species of mountain gorilla! His fellow academicians ridiculed his published findings, "Who ever heard of apes burying one another?" but "Yet, what kind of human was this?"

Sounds quite similar to the Grays we know of today.
 
 
Ticker
16:57 / 16.07.07
My theory is that there are states of being that do defy our scientific evidence and our definition of what is considered "science" and "evidence" is.

You should really read what Charles Fort wrote about the damned, meaning damned information and data:


A PROCESSION of the damned.

By the damned, I mean the excluded.

We shall have a procession of data that Science has excluded.

Battalions of the accursed, captained by pallid data that I have exhumed, will march. You'll read them--or they'll march. Some of them livid and some of them fiery and some of them rotten.

Some of them are corpses, skeletons, mummies, twitching, tottering, animated by companions that have been damned alive. There are giants that will walk by, though sound asleep. There are things that are theorems and things that are rags: they'll go by like Euclid arm in arm with the spirit of anarchy. Here and there will flit little harlots. Many are clowns. But many are of the highest respectability. Some are assassins. There are pale stenches and gaunt superstitions and mere shadows and lively malices: whims and amiabilities. The naïve and the pedantic and the bizarre and the grotesque and the sincere and the insincere, the profound and the puerile.

A stab and a laugh and the patiently folded hands of hopeless propriety.

The ultra-respectable, but the condemned, anyway.

The aggregate appearance is of dignity and dissoluteness: the aggregate voice is a defiant prayer: but the spirit of the whole is processional.

The power that has said to all these things that they are damned, is Dogmatic Science.

But they'll march.

The little harlots will caper, and freaks will distract attention, and the clowns will break the rhythm of the whole with their buffooneries--but the solidity of the procession as a whole: the impressiveness of things that pass and pass and pass, and keep on and keep on and keep on coming.

The irresistibleness of things that neither threaten nor jeer nor defy, but arrange themselves in mass-formations that pass and pass and keep on passing.


Maybe those notions are going the way of racism?

I'd say they were informed by racism. I believe we see what we want to see with the phenomenon, it reshapes to present our ideal futures and worst fears. It is the glass darkly.
 
 
grant
18:12 / 16.07.07
On a parallel track, have you guys heard Nick Redfern's theory about Roswell?

Roswell, 1947: Something crashes outside the Army Air Force Base. Witnesses report strange, silvery-rubbery material (some of which may have odd characters written on it) and strange, small, humanoid bodies being whisked from the scene, while the government claims it was a weather balloon experiment.

Redfern takes this, adds these facts:
* In 1947, Operation Paperclip was taking military scientists from Axis powers and using them to create new technology for America (like Von Braun and the rockets).

* During the war, Japan did manage to attack the U.S. mainland using balloons. I think they had incendiary payloads. The Japanese war-balloon program got cut short by atomic bombs and surrender.

Redfern's theory is that the Roswell aliens were actually small-statured Japanese balloon pilots, brought over to America by Paperclip (or a Pacific Theater analogue) and kept very, very secret -- because of racism, essentially, from Americans who really wouldn't stand for Japanese folks on our soil (or in our airspace). They were continuing their balloon research, but it all went south after the crash.

It does fit many of the Roswell facts....
 
 
Ticker
18:15 / 16.07.07
Yes and I have heard that due to the pilots dying up in the air currents the remains were freeze dried - mummified - giving them an even freakier appearance.
 
 
Papess
18:41 / 16.07.07
WHat an interesting thread. Turning up all sorts of stuff!

I'd say they were informed by racism. I believe we see what we want to see with the phenomenon, it reshapes to present our ideal futures and worst fears. It is the glass darkly.

Yes. Well, as a Buddhist, I believe that all phenomenon has this quality, whether we can identify it or not. Every bit of phenomenon is dependent upon perception and awareness.
 
 
Ticker
12:38 / 26.07.07
Cluster of UFOs seen above Stratford-Upon-Avon, UK (July 21)
 
 
trouser the trouserian
04:45 / 27.07.07
that just plain old sucks rocks then, Quantum, because deoxy.org is stating it as a direct quote from Daimonic Reality: A Field Guide to the Otherworld by Patrick Harpur.

Medulla
It is a quote from Daimonic Reality - at least it appears on pp177-179 of my 1994 Arkana edition. I looked up "subatomic" in the index.
 
 
Ticker
14:20 / 27.07.07
trouser's above comment prompted me to read the earlier posts a bit more closely (not as distracted as I have been!) and I spotted a question from Medulla:

Is that a good example of how Daimonic theory is applied?

My personal form of Daimonic theory stems from a few sources including the original meaning of a messenger between Gods and humans, the computer Unix form as a system process running a task on behalf of another process or as a master process, and Harpur's reflective reality framework. I see it as a big reflective postal system of messages being sent in various forms and in some cases the systems being operated incorrectly - sort of like junk mail. Imagine not being to identify junk mail as discardable crap or confusing important mail with junk mail and throwing away the wrong things. For me there are several origins - senders - and end points -receivers-including Deity/Trickster, other humans, other sentient life, and ourselves, several kinds of messages, and several kinds of legit and bogus uses of the system. For me the Daimonic is a neutral system of delivery often used to deliver numinous experiences which are then processed by the receipent according to their context. sadly sometimes the message is confusing or garbled or sometimes it is just a red herring.

The point of the numinous experience as a Holy profound event (which can be in the Jungian sense filtered as either positive or negative) IMO is to provide us with a moment of true mindfullness in the present moment. The often cringe worthy role of the Trickster here IMO is valid as the event or Sender intends to break down rigid structures of assumption and call into question our hardened sense of expected reality. Once you have started to break down your assumptions with or without external aid the communication often shifts.

I really should hasslehoff Patrick Harpur to join the board...
 
 
---
16:54 / 27.07.07
XK that was awesome, and seemed to put a lot of my thoughts on this whole subject into words better than I could have managed. Thanks!
 
 
Ticker
12:21 / 22.08.07
*Exactly 52 years ago tonight, on the night of August 21/22, 1955, a
Kentucky farmhouse was besieged by "goblins" or "aliens" in one of the
most famous "flying saucer occupant" cases of all time. Little "men" 3
1/2 feet tall with bald round heads. huge eyes with no pupils or
eyelids, huge pointed elephant-like ears, very thin bodies, and arms
ending in talon-like claws attacked the Sutton family farmhouse in
Kelly KY, 7 miles north of Hopkinsville, terrorizing the Sutton,
Lankford, and Taylor families, eight adults and three children. The
Sutton farmhouse siege began shortly after dusk, an hour or so after one
family member claimed seeing a "flying saucer" passing overhead and
seemingly dropping into a nearby gully, and lasted through most of the
night. However, no UFO was observed near or with the humanoids
themselves. The Sutton farmhouse siege was long popularly described as
taking place in Hopkinsville KY, but actually took place in or near the
tiny rural hamlet of Kelly, population 150, located 7 miles north of
Hopkinsville. Cryptozoologist and Fortean researcher Loren Coleman wrote
an excellent brief summary of the case in /Mysterious America/, revised
edn.(New York: Paraview Press, 2001), Chapter 19, "Kelly's Little Men,"
pp. 245-248. The incident was also briefly summarized by the late Coral
Lorenzen on pp. 152-153, "Hopkinsville Mystery," of her "UFO Occupants
in the United States" in Charles Bowen et al., /The Humanoids /(Chicago:
Henry Regnery, 1969).
P.S.--for whatever it's worth as a Fortean coincidence, famed psychic
Edgar Cayce was born and raised in Hopkinsville. And, yet another very
interesting Fortean/Jungian coincidence--ALSO on August 21, 1955, the
same date as the Kelly humanoid encounter, Mrs. Darwin Johnson was
nearly dragged underwater by an unseen reptilian creature with huge
claws and "furry" (or "scaly?) palms clutching her left leg while
swimming with a friend in the Ohio River near Evansville, Indiana. She
sustained a palm-print-like green stain on her leg for several days.*


your daily bit of weirdness from Forteana.
 
 
Papess
13:22 / 22.08.07
Thanks for that, Inkwitch/XK. I have that Harpur book on order, in English, (YAY!). I am looking forward to reading it.

I will probably want to discuss it further, as the theory seems to raise a lot of questions for me. It seems, (and please don't get offended) that the Daemonic Reality theory as represented by your post office analogy, is a lot like most of "reality". I guess I am wondering if the DR theory allows for these "phenomenon" to be real, or just a display of our mind. I understand inter-dependent arising of phenomenon, but that doesn't mean that the things that arise are not real.
 
 
Ticker
14:47 / 22.08.07
it allows them to be manifest in space and time external to our internal perceptions of such. The Daimonic aspect is more about how/why they got here and what they are doing here.

the problem I see with 'reality' as a term is it assumes there is a common state all of us may access in equal measure.

I good example I like to use is playing with cats and a laser pointer. The laser pointer is a real tangible thing projecting a spot of light on the floor or wall. When the cats are first introduced to it they perceive the red dot as a distinct event with shape and motion. They do not automatically trace the red dot back to its place of origin that being the device in their human's hand or that the device is being controlled by their human. they perceive an event on the floor or wall as the end result dot and not the beam. What they experience is valid but with our advantage of perspective and understanding we can perceive that the dot is not in fact a bug like red glowing object self propelling around the house. They think it's a light fairy.

John Keel mentions in the Mothman Prophecies that the intelligence contacting him may not be a great enlightened being but rather just one with a better perception of the occuring events due to their position in space and time.

When we see a UFO or other phenomenon we maybe perceiving the result of a mechanism and assuming it is the entire event rather than just the end result. this does not mean what we are seeing is not valid but rather that we do not have enough information to properly describe the phenomenon.

Eventually my cats correlated the clicking noise of the laser pointer to the light fairy appearing and disappearing and used the noise to locate the device in my hand. They still chase the light fairy dot but they seem to know understand I'm operating it for their entertainment.

Thisis not to say Science will one day reduce all Forteana to mechanical nonparanormal processes, rather it is to say that someday we will hopefully understand how the paranormal operates to generate the effects we are experiencing. The theory of Daimonic Reality seeks to offer such an explanation.
 
 
Papess
01:56 / 10.09.07
I highly recommend that people watch the 12 videos of contactee, Alex Collier, at the bottom of the page I linked to. Try to watch all of them before making judgements. Although, right from the start Mr.Collier appears as a sober-minded individual. I don't get even a whiff of fanaticism or even egotism from his discourse.
 
  

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