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Underground > Games & Gameplay >

Manhunt 2: Effectively Banned in the UK

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Sebastian Flyte

13:05 / 19.06.07

So, the old chestnut of classification and 'censorship' comes around again.

I apologise for the scare quotes, but as they form part of the issues to be debated I shall leave them in.

The British Board of Film Classification has refused to give Rockstar's latest controversy-em-up, Manhunt 2, a rating -- effectively banning the game in its current form. There's a story we just posted that gives you some background on the matter here.

Given that none of us have actually played the final version of the game that was presented to the censors the debate will be largely theoretical.

The question I think this raises is this:

Are such bans ever right?

Janean Patience

13:19 / 19.06.07

It's got me interested in playing the first one, I'll say that...

14:06 / 19.06.07

Me too, I'm afraid.

Personally, I find it hard to imagine anything that beats 'Hitman: Contracts' for "unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone", never mind "sustained and cumulative casual sadism"; 'Manhunt 2' must be quite a piece of work.

Mainly, I suppose I'm interested in why it wasn't possible to make satisfactory cuts in this instance; it may just be that the game as a whole is too extreme to be edited in a way that doesn't destroy its internal logic, but on the other hand, Rockstar Games, who'll presumably be able to appeal this decision, might simply be taking a calculated risk by refusing to budge on anything. If Manhunt 2 does come out now, after all, even if it's an edited form, it's pretty much guaranteed to be a huge success.

As far as censorship in general goes, it wouldn't be that hard to come up with a video game that ought to be banned, because it was in breach of, say, the laws prohibiting incitement to racial hatred. Or if it seemed to promoting extreme violence towards women. So there is a line somewhere. Because of the nature of the format, there would seem to be some things you just can't write a video game about, in a way that perhaps isn't true of a book or a film. For example, I doubt we'll be seeing a PS2 adaptation of 'American Psycho' in the immediate future.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

15:26 / 19.06.07

I really liked the first one (gameplay-wise it's not much more than above average, but in true Rockstar style the presentation totally makes it, and as a fan of video nasty/grindhouse cinema I thought it was pretty fucking good), and was really looking forward to this.

I think the problem with videogame classification is that nobody ever sticks to it. There's a perfectly good "18" certificate, but you know damn well the majority of people playing 18-rated games are going to be kids. This is probably leading to the BBFC being a bit more harsh than they might otherwise be, bust surely that's nonsensical?

After the furore over the first one (I'll find links later, but basically a kid was stabbed to death by another kid, and the Mail and tabs made a big deal of the Manhunt connection. A couple of days later the chief investigating officer was in all the papers saying he thought there was no connection, and that apart from anything else the game had been found at the house of the victim rather than the killer, but the damage had been done. The game came off shelves for a while, sold for a fortune on eBay, then eventually slipped quietly back into shops once the fuss had died down) there was bound to be something going on with this one. This seems a little harsh, though.

Although I do hear this was going to be made available on the Wii, which would put it in a slightly different context, I guess... but fucking hell if I wasn't looking forward to that too.

Happy Dave Has Left

15:38 / 19.06.07

Sebastien, you work for Gamespot? Cool.

Played Manhunt 1, didn't get that far, because once you've seen one brawny digital thug die a messy, air-kicking death, you've pretty much seen them all.

Sebastian Flyte

15:42 / 19.06.07

"The game has been refused a certificate on both the Wii and PlayStation 2 platforms, as to release it would 'involve a range of unjustifiable harm risks, to both adults and minors.'"

Or so saith the article.

Essentially they admit that, in this instance, they're banning it because their own rating system doesn't work -- which is, as you say, nonsensical.

This was, along with Super Mario Galaxy, the game I was most looking forward to playing on the Wii this year... and it still is.

Rockstar will love the publicity, and when the game eventually comes out it will make (if you will excuse the pun) an absolute killing... and, alas, a lot of that money will come from kids who want to play the game that almost got banned.

I think the system is broken, but I don't think that law-abiding publishers and games should be punished for it.

Happy Dave Has Left

15:46 / 19.06.07

Usual polarised debate starting up on Metafilter.

Sebastian Flyte

16:02 / 19.06.07

"Ah yes, "the line." I would suggest we fundamentally disagree. Besides, your worst-theoretically-possible video game is lacking tentacle rape of schoolgirls (an essential ingredient I assure you!), and there already are video games of that nature, so you're going to have to try a little harder."

I've not visited MeFi for a while; thank you for reminding me, and hence letting the current smile creep across my face.

Happy Dave Has Left

16:20 / 19.06.07

Yeah, Mefi snark is legendary. The milk-through-nose moments I've had while reading MeFi are many.

18:50 / 19.06.07

I'm with 7's on the not getting far; I might be tempted to give it another go, though. For some reason, I got totally caught up in the hype machine at the time, and the game really creeped me out. Dumb, I guess. Then again, I was playing it in the dark, with headphones on, to avoid any potential explanations.

As far as Hitman: Contracts goes, though, Grandma, it was, for my opinion, way, way, way too short. I thought the end point was the halfway point. Maybe I'd been spoilt by Hitman 2, which had good longevity.

So on one hand we have a petrified classifications organisation, and on the other, a games producer known for it's controversial content and braggadocio? It might prove interesting.

(Not as interesting as knowing how to spell braggadocio properly, I grant you, but still.)

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

19:10 / 19.06.07

I'm with 7's on the not getting far; I might be tempted to give it another go, though.

It's totally worth it... the last level is almost pointlessly easy, but brings such satisfaction... (and the one before it's a fucking nightmare, so it's not like it's a letdown).

Sebastian Flyte

19:45 / 19.06.07

One other thing I should add for reference -- the only review I've yet seen for Manhunt 2 is from one of the nintendo magazines, and it got 92%.

21:04 / 19.06.07

I'm not a fan of the first game, but I can see how its extreme violence could be justified as part of the theme of the plot, which is one of the things that the BBFC look for when letting stuff pass - whether or not there's a reason for its presence. Previews of the sequel suggest that there's no such justification this time around.

21:11 / 19.06.07

Also, anybody who didn't expect a reaction like this from some official body or other, given that the Wii version adds in total physical recreation of the actions on-screen, rather than just the abstract motion of pressing a button on a pad, probably hadn't thought too deeply about the implications of a control system like the Wii's in a game like this.

21:42 / 19.06.07

I found what I saw of the original to be pretty bog standard and uninspiring in terms of gameplay. The moodiness and lighting were pretty nifty I suppose, but not enough to warrant the buzz that came from some quarters. Predictably from Rockstar the game seemed to rely on their usual one up manship in terms of the controversy stakes to act as the game’s unique selling point, and I can’t help but feel it’s all pretty playground marketing savvy.
Number 2 sounds like the same shit; the banning in and of itself I find quite interesting, but the game I suspect isn’t going to be any kind of revolution. Probably not even in terms of gore and gut spilling, like E. Randy alluded to somewhat, I reckon it only got banned for a lack of context and not for an abundance of thrills.

07:51 / 21.06.07

I was actually quite curious about this, on the Wii, because I wanted to see how far the user was able to interact with individual items ad hoc, rather then running through canned animaitons. It looked like it would have similarities with the way Splinter Cell: Bourne Rising and Metal Gear Solid 4 were going with the stealth genre; namely, moving away from Pac-Man and towards emergent, improvised gameplay, and I wanted the Wii to get in on that shit.

Why didn't they go after The Godfather: Blackhand Edition, which covers many of the same bases, surely?

Sebastian Flyte

08:20 / 21.06.07

I believe the reason was the lack of context for the violence, and the 'unremitting sadism', which is apparrently not present in the same quantities in other titles.

Interestingly, there's been a new development in the matter... it's been rated AO in the US, and both Sony and Nintendo have reiterated their policy against allowing Adults-Only rated games to be published on their consoles.

09:57 / 21.06.07

Does that mean it's now not going to be available anywhere in the world? Presumably Nintendo and Sony were aware of the direction this game was taking, so changing their position on the game as a result of one country's (albeit one of the biggest markets) rating system seems.... I don't know. It just seems odd to me.

Sebastian Flyte

10:33 / 21.06.07

It means that unless it is modified to the satisfaction of censors, it won't be published anywhere.

Sony and Nintendo have never allowed US AO-rated games (and the Japanese equivalent rating, which is, I believe, pretty much limited to porn games) on their consoles, and they're just reiterating this policy.

Closed for Business Time

10:46 / 21.06.07

Does that mean it's now not going to be available anywhere in the world?

I don't know about this from a distribution point of view (ie will Rockstar bother releasing it if it's not going out for sale in USA/UK/Japan?), but the national papers in Norway today all carry stories saying that Manhunt 2 will come to Norway. In fact, it's almost impossible to ban games in Norway. GTA 3 was a test case a few years back when the national child protection agency filed a complaint to the police, but the case was eventually dropped. So, if needs be you can always order it online from a Norwegian distributor.

Sebastian Flyte

12:53 / 21.06.07

This is a point about which we're not sure...

Sony's international policy isn't clear; it's possible they won't licence the game for release anywhere if it's deemed AO in the US, as they feel that's an indication it's the sort of game that shouldn't be on their console.

Right now though, we're not sure; but as soon as I find out, I will let you know.

13:15 / 21.06.07

Cheers Sebastian. If that [i]is[/i] the case then the upshot of it would be - presumably - that the ESRB actually has the power of veto over the gaming habits of the entire planet?

Mon Oncle Ignatius

17:20 / 21.06.07

In a grand piece of (by now to be expected) poor journalism on the BBC News website, Take Two chairman Strauss Zelnick's statement on the furore that Manhunt 2 brings a unique, formerly unheard of cinematic quality to interactive entertainment, and is also a fine piece of art," leads them to place a headline on the item saying Banned video game is 'fine art'- which is not actually the same thing at all.

18:36 / 21.06.07

Yes, I've not read an article so comprehensively designed to annoy the censors in a long time. I think it's a brilliant piece of pr, in that people are now going to be arguing over how the hell you can claim Manhunt 2 is "A piece of fine art". Although, y'know, good luck to them.

Rockstar have, however, always been masters of the well-done press release and damage control. I have a Louisville slugger as testament to their press campaigns, though, so I'm a little biased...

18:52 / 21.06.07

the ESRB actually has the power of veto over the gaming habits of the entire planet?

Don't be daft. The decision not to allow AO games an official release comes from Nintendo and Sony.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

14:16 / 23.06.07

So a film doesn't actually NEED to be rated by the BBFC before it's shown in cinemas. So is it the same with videogames? Could shops say "fuck it, we can sell a shitload of these" and stock it anyway, or are they actually unable to sell something that isn't classified?

14:47 / 23.06.07

Theoretically, maybe, yes. I'm genuinely not sure; videogame retail being such that it is, I find it hard to imagine either that they'd wish to publically be seen breaking the law and also that they wouldn't, if they could get away with it, burn pirated copies of games for the RRP and keep all the money themselves.

That could only realistically aplly to PC games, however, because the console manufactuer has to liscence - read: approve, and then take money for, the manufacture of - the game for their console. And currently they're refusing to do so for Adult Only games.

Which raises such fun questions as: what the hell is the difference between AO and 18+, as ratings? How heavily policed are ESRB ratings in America? Are they as broken as the BBFC rulings in England? is the idea of actually releasing a game that will actually only be bought by its legally defined audience financially unattractive, or even unviable?

And I don't think this is a sign of massive consoring, if only because it's a specific sub-catagory of games that are only going to get pegged as AO, but in those instances it would seem to be open to the posibility of arbitary abuse by raters, RE: getting passed or not.

22:13 / 23.06.07

The ESRB ratings aren't policed at all, pin, because they're advisory. There's nothing legally binding in them. Likewise with PEGI. By contrast, BBFC ratings are enforcable by law; you can be prosecuted for selling BBFC-certified titles to those underage. Doesn't mean people are, but it's possible.

All the other ratings, are literally that: advisory "ratings", not a restrictive classifcation at all.

Sebastian Flyte

07:30 / 24.06.07

I believe that in this country, for a film to be allowed for sale it must have (a) been submitted to the censor's office for examination and (b) been passed with a certificate of some description, to ensure it is not too morally deleterious to the nation's moral fibre.

Games are a little different; there is PEGI, the pan-European non-statutory rating system, and there is the BBFC. I do not know how it is chosen which group looks at which product; I believe the default is PEGI, and the BBFC can rather anything that it feels needs a more watchful eye, or that is part of a larger set of things it's already looking at, such as games that tie in with a film.

But, back to the more pertinent point, which is something I have given some thought to over the past week or so... why is AO 'worse' than an 18 rating? The answer is twofold. Firstly, if a game is rated AO in the US, it's generally porn, end of story, and the same goes for the equivalent Japanese rating. The Americans have an M rating, which is 17-and-over, which captures most of our 18-rated content (in much the same way that films are rated R or NC-17). Thus, from one point of view, all an 18-rating is an indication that the game is not suitable for anyone 16 or under, as the next available BBFC rating is 15, thus making such games' release less of an issue.

However, all that having been said it's foolish to try to apply logic to such an arbitrary and nonsense-filled system anyway...

08:19 / 24.06.07

Paleface: Certainly the major videogame retailers in England have a policy of treating ESRB and PEGI ratings with the same force as BBFC ones, even if they aren't going to get the shit secret-shoppered out of them by Trading Standards, which leads to all the usual fun games of only taking the money directly from the hands of the very, very stupid parent.

Sorry for being unclear, but that was kind of what I meant by policing: how serious do retailers take an AO tag, over others, regardless of the legal issues?

Sebastian Flyte

08:30 / 24.06.07

Most US retailers won't even stock AO-rated games.

AFAIK, none of the national general retailers do... I'm not sure about specific games retailers, though.

10:15 / 24.06.07

The equivalent Japanese rating is CERO Z, afaik, but they're not directly comparable. Dead Rising, The Godfather, Gears of War, Killer 7 - it's not porn, unless you're talking gun/gore porn.

12:25 / 24.06.07

Well I think that makes the different between 18+ and CERO Z / AO ratings, Sebastian...

Happy Dave Has Left

12:11 / 25.06.07

Interesting article in the NYT.

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

00:17 / 27.06.07

The last AO game I can recall off the top of my head was The Punisher. Everyone refused to distributive or carry it until the torture scenes were rendered in black and white. Which knocked the ESRB rating down and everyone was happy.

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