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Unearthed "Arcana"

 
  

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Mario
12:12 / 15.06.07
Picked this up yesterday, and I think I want to spend some time taking it apart. I'll start with the cover.

The character on the cover is the late? Illyanna Rasputin,also known as Magik, although this particular costume is not one she's worn before.

In the background are several symbols associated with the magical element of Air:

A sword.
The card suit Spade (from "spada" meaning sword).
An upward-pointing triangle with a line through it, which is the symbol for Air in alchemy.
The air signs of the Zodiac: Gemini, Aquarius, and Libra.
Birds and lightning.

There are also two magic circles I don't immediately recognize, but based on the language and design, I'd guess come from Enochian and/or hermetic systems.

More later.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:35 / 15.06.07
Possibly nobody should ever use the name "ARCANA" for a magical series again, after the Vertigo.

Was this any good? I also looked at the related New X-Men that was out, which had Belasco in it and I'm guessing Illyana's over there as well. Not that I support much Illyana, really, given how mangled her backstory is by this point.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
14:40 / 15.06.07
Not related apparently, just a coincidence they cropped up at the same time. The New X-men Magik is the House of M one if I remember correctly.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
14:42 / 15.06.07
Arcana wasn't very good.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:55 / 15.06.07
Pacific- I'm really not that surprised.

So they've got (presumably) reanimated regular Magik and House of M Magik? X-comics should never be allowed anywhere near an alternate timeline. Because this seems to happen regularly.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
14:58 / 15.06.07
It's not as bad as that, the Magik section is set "During the events of New Mutants #32"
 
 
Essential Dazzler
15:00 / 15.06.07
The art in the "Ian Mcnee" section, that's going to run through the series was quite nice.
 
 
Mario
15:21 / 15.06.07
Was it good? Nah, not really. But the writer of the backups knows his stuff (he's apparently designed two Tarot decks of his own) so he comes by it honestly. The style is sort of "Kid Eternity meets Gideon Stargrave"

I'm more interested in the metaphysical aspects, myself.
 
 
Mario
16:08 / 15.06.07
Inside Front Cover:

Lots of symbolism here in the text piece.

The first two Golden Age heroes mentioned are the first Human Torch and Namor the Sub-Mariner, followed by Captain America and the Whizzer. Interestingly, Cap is associated with Earth, and the Tarot suit associated with Earth is Pentacles/Shields. And the Whizzer has a yellow costume, which (while risible in some senses) ties him even closer to Air, as Yellow is the traditional color of that element.

The elemental associations of the FF have been mentioned before, but are reinforced here, although one might argue that, philosophically Reed is more air/intellect while Sue is more emotions/water.

The other tetrads reference some fairly obscure bits of continuity:

Eternity, Infinity, Death, Oblivion: An expansion of the Eternity/Death duality first created by Mark Gruenwald for his Quasar series.

(Silver) Surfer, (Air-) Walker, (Terrax the) Tamer, (Fire) Lord: Heralds of Galactus, each with fairly obvious elemental associations.

Four Elder Gods: Set, Cthon, Gaea, and (apparently) Oshtur, of which more later.

Four kinds of Magic: These terms are new to me, in this arrangement.

Four Cornerstones of Creation: Perhaps the most obscure reference of the bunch, these artifacts were the McGuffin of an arc in Marvel's Conan series, back in 1981.

Page 1:

The combination of the words Serpent, Sea, and Crown suggest that this is referencing the Serpent Crown of Set, last seen in the Atlantis Attacks crossover. (The fact that this is mentioned in upcoming solicits re-inforces the identification)

Oshtur, here identified as one of the "Four Forces", is usually part of the Vishanti trinity, along with Hoggoth and Agamotto. The feminine appearance is traditional. She appears to be holding scales (the symbol of Libra, an air sign) as well as a sword.

Note, also, that the shop itself is called "Cornerstone of Creation".

Page 9: The Sword of Bone, first seen in Secret Defenders #16, was the weapon of Cadaver , an undead hero in the service of the Vishanti. The identification as a Cornerstone is new, as the Conan version of the sword had a different name.

Page 17: Cadaver's Sword was one of his ribs, too.

Page 25-27: The equating of Oshtur with Maat and Ishtar is new. Indeed, Ishtar and Maat are not usually equated (Hathor is more often seen as Ishtar's equivalent).

I'll do more on the spread later.
 
 
Mario
16:45 / 17.06.07
Just some last comments on the issue:

Page 26-27:

Oshtur: The aforementioned female Vishanti.
Ma'at: Egyptian personification of justice. In the underworld, she balanced the newly dead's heart against a feather. If it was heavier, it (and the soul) were fed to Ammut.
Ishtar: Babylonian goddess of love & war.
Ostara: Celtic fertility goddess, and possibly the origin of the word "Easter"

The War of Seven Spheres was a background plot device in Doctor Strange for a while. Basically, it was a great battle among mystioc entities, each of which tried to recruit Strange (who had called upon them for spells) at one time or another. Rejecting their call meant he had to give up a lot of his magic, leading to the whole "Gaian aura" thing.

Eventually, the Vishanti successfully drafted him (they made him an offer he couldn't refuse) and he fought in the war for 5000 subjective years... or one month, Earth time.

Cadaver, previous wielder of the Sword of Bone, was another recruit. One supposes that he was eventually allowed to pass on, since he no longer has the Sword.

The Four Talismans of the Elder Gods are apparently the same as the Cornerstones of Creation. Interestingly, the lemental associations appear to be:

Air: Sword, as normal, devoted to Oshtur
Earth: Rose, as opposed to Shield or Pentacle, although having Gaea as the associated Elder makes sense.
Water: Crown, which isn't particularly Cuplike. And despite his connections to Atlantis, Set was never really a water-god (indeed, his original role was God of the Wilderness/Desert)
Fire: Mirror, which almost looks more like an Earth totem, as opposed to the usual wand or spear. And the Elder is Cthon, whi has _never_ been tied to fire, as far as I know, being cthonic by name AND by nature. Tho one could play a "fires of the underworld" analogy, I suppose.

Oh, and one final comment: Heka-Nut could possibly be translated as "Magic of the Sky".
 
 
stank2323
20:17 / 18.06.07
It would be really cool if they combine scarlet witch/scarlet woman/ babalon in this series
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:36 / 19.06.07
This may be one of relatively few suggestions that are so egregiously moronic that not even Marvel editorial will go for them.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:44 / 19.06.07
It's also a post that makes me feel that Mario's attempt to annotate a miniseries about magic in the Marvel universe as if it had genuine mystical significance is an endeavour worth protecting from such nonsense, which I didn't expect to find myself typing when I got out of bed this morning.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:19 / 19.06.07
Indeed. In some ways, it might make sense to move this to Temple, as we would a discussion of a book about magic...
 
 
The Falcon
09:39 / 19.06.07
It'd probably be of more interest there, so I'll request it.
 
 
Mario
09:46 / 19.06.07
I wasn't sure whether I should go with format or content. But I have no objections to the move.
 
 
Quantum
11:00 / 19.06.07
Welcome to the Temple. Please all posters explain their magical symbolism so that people who don't read comics and aren't into magic can understand them easily, and be aware it's likely nobody here has read this comic or will care anything about it (except maybe me).
 
 
Mario
22:16 / 19.06.07
Well, I was basically working off the fairly traditional elementall correspondences (although, like most magical concepts, there are variations).

Element: Tarot suit, regular card suit, color, alchemic symbol.

Specifically:

Air: Swords, Spades, Yellow, Upward-pointing triangle with line.
Water: Cups, Hearts, Blue, Downward-pointing triangle.
Earth: Pentacles/Coins, Diamonds, Green, Downward-pointing triangle with line.
Fire: Staff/Club/Spear, Clubs, Red, Upward-pointing triangle.

There are other correspondences (Grail hallow, Celtic treasure, cardinal direction) but it doesn't appear that Sexton is using them.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
06:32 / 20.06.07
Sorry I'm a little bit confuzzled about the purpose of this thread - is it to notify of a comic book that takes its inspiration from the Tarot and draws correspondances between this and other schools of magic whilst pointing out examples, or is it to explain those examples in a greater context and derive some sort of appreciation of them beyond arm chair education?
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
06:35 / 20.06.07
Also - is it as good as Promethea, which is a fairly good example of using magic as inspiration for art.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
07:08 / 20.06.07
I've been kind of holding off saying anything in case there was some development but I really don't know what this is doing in the Temple either. I understand that the artists concerned have elected to use magical symbolism in this comic and that Mario wants to examine this. That's fine as far as it goes. What I'm not getting a sense of is any deeper mystical or occult significance, as in Promethea. If all that's happening is that a fairly standard comic is being jazzed up with nifty symbols culled from Cool Magic-Looking Stuff 101, we're not really looking at a very meaty discussion.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:00 / 20.06.07
Well, no. It's not likely to be a very meaty comic book, really. It didn't really fit in Comics because it wasn't about the comic as actual comic - its story, writing, artwork, plotting - but rather as a subject of magical study. My suspicion would be that this is indeed not a very heavy topic, but it is a magical one. Likewise, a discussion purely about the magic of Promethea would probably fit into the Temple, whereas a discussion of how that magic made a potentially really good comic into an intermittently really good comic would go in Comic Books.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:08 / 20.06.07
No, I can see the reason for moving it here from Comics--I'd have made the same call--I'm just not sure what to do with it now we've got it.
 
 
Mario
09:55 / 20.06.07
I think everyone is overthinking this. This thread was inspired by this comment by the writer:

"Since my background is in Tarot and some of the writers were not so familiar with it, I created a basic guide that focused on the Minor Arcana suits and their meanings. When Marco Djurdjevic started to work on the covers, he asked for information about symbols that represented the four elements, so I expanded the guide to include symbols of the elements and seals to protect against various elemental beings. I believe now that the lists of 'correspondences' (which is what symbolic relationships are called in Wicca and Ritual Magick) are going to be posted online and then published, so be looking for them."

Since I haven't seen them online... I decided to do it myself. I also tossed in some bits of Marvel continuity for context.

Sexton has apparently really thought about how to use real-life magical concepts to explore the fictional Marvel magic realm. While it may not be as in-depth as Promethea (what could be?) I thought it might be worthy of interest. And, of course, if I missed something, you folks will probably catch it.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:01 / 20.06.07
I doubt that anything today will make me happier than being told by somebody creating a mystickal concordance to a Marvel comic that I am overthinking.
 
 
Quantum
10:46 / 20.06.07
I bought this comic yesterday out of curiosity (and the art looks nice enough) so let me describe it for those readers who don't have it, as addendum to Mario's description.

It's a little bit 7-soldiers and a little bit Promethea, but nowhere near as good as either. The idea is four c-list heroes each get waylaid from Marvel continuity (e.g. 'Magik' the new X-man and her mate accidentally teleport to ancient Egypt, then after the events never mention it again, lazy writing) in order to set up one of four elemental macguffins. Then in the second section a Marvel ripoff off Constantine called Ian Mcnee who's been told to gather the aces gets the sword of bone/gaea's rose etc. until he gets the set (gotta catch 'em all!).
There's a lot of cultural appropriation, plenty of tarot references, three of the four protagonists will be hott chix in tight outfits, and all the correspondences are taken as read e.g. "Oshtur, Ma'at, Ishtar, Ostara...whatever...came to me in a dream and told me I needed to cast a spell to save magic!".
It very much has the feeling of trying to shoehorn a lot of occult stuff into a poor Marvel comic to give it some cachet. I think spotting all the elemental symbols and cryptic references to old continuity is a bit like playing Where's Wally, because although the creators have tried to tie the right Tarot cards to the plot, it's really pretty shallow.
In a nutshell, it equates Namor the submariner with Mr Fantastic with ecocentric magic with a Crown with the Scarlet Witch with the element of Water, because they all CORRESPOND do you see?
 
 
Quantum
11:09 / 20.06.07
Mario, to help you out; She appears to be holding scales (the symbol of Libra, an air sign) as well as a sword. ...because she's Oshtara/Maat the judge, echoing the tarot card Justice of course.

Sexton has apparently really thought about how to use real-life magical concepts to explore the fictional Marvel magic realm.

But isn't the first story (hott chix in ancient egypt) by Simonson? And more importantly, how is Sexton using real life magical concepts to explore Marvel? It looked to me more like inventing a random story as an excuse to casually reference occult symbolism, not so much exploring as cut'n'pasting. (BTW they did tie in cardinal directions, on the cover, I suspect they crammed in every association they could think of, the Grail & Celtic stuff will be next ish with Morgana LeFay)
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
16:09 / 23.06.07
Sexton developed the event, wrote the overarching story and is doing the framing pieces.

Also... 'Magik' the new X-man and her mate accidentally teleport to ancient Egypt, then after the events never mention it again, lazy writing

It's the original New Mutants Magik ('cause the one in New X-Men is actually the House of M version of the original who is dead) and they actually did mention the Egypt trip a few times waaaayyyyy back in the day. This story is just fleshing out a quick anecdote from the nigh on 20 years old New Mutants run.
 
 
Mario
22:10 / 16.07.07
The second issue is due this week. Should I continue my analysis?
 
 
Essential Dazzler
22:16 / 16.07.07
It would be quite difficult to stop you, the board being how it is.

I will be downloading it and reading the thread, but probably won't contribute.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
01:33 / 17.07.07
If we ask you very nicely, will you please not?
 
 
Quantum
13:36 / 17.07.07
Should I continue my analysis?

Well, the symbolism doesn't seem to be too difficult to draw out so I don't know if you need bother. It's actually more difficult to suss out the continuity and character comic stuff than the occult stuff.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
19:36 / 17.07.07
I still don't see why this belongs in the Temple. The person who started the Voice of the Fire thread caught a lot of flack for putting it in the Temple despite that novel's occult-y topics.

While I'm not against this thread by any means (although Mystic Arcana hasn't really caught any of my interest, yet) I don't see why it's here as opposed to The Comics where there may be more people a) interested in it and b) up for clarifying some of the continuity stuff that it dredges up.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
04:00 / 18.07.07
Should I continue my analysis?

Sure, go ahead, you might bring some fresh ideas to the subject (fresh to me at least) and enthusiasm is nice to see.
 
 
Mario
11:18 / 18.07.07
I won't be continuing, then.
 
  

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