Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Temple >

Pragmatic Magic - Magic in a real world context.

Mako is a hungry fish

11:34 / 15.06.07

Inspired by the Temple BINGO Creation thread and this page of the "Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions thread, I'd like to propose this thread which is dedicated to the pragmatic and useful application of magic towards solving problems.

The suggested format is as follows: -

1) A problematic situation is described with sufficient detail that: -

2) Room for individual interpretation as to the best course of action is allowed, preferrably with a magic based influence which: -

3) When necessary, permits the discussion as to how this interpretation came about, and what its strengths and weaknesses are, with the understanding that: -

4) If the discussion deserves its own thread or should be trashed, than this will occur before this thread strays from its purpose to: -

Show how you approach problems resolution through the use of magic and magic based thought.

For example: -

1) Initial poster What's a good way to attract wealth in my life?

2) Second poster What sort of wealth are we talking about? For me, wealth is in friends, family, and the development of self - a good way to get in touch with the love which binds these is to meditate on the element of water, starting off with how it is embracing and receptive instead of domineering.

3) Third poster I don't think that's what hir meant by wealth, however I find it interesting that similar thoughts on the nature of water can be found in Greek, Chinese, and Hindu theories - the weakness with that approach is that water can also be too embracing to the point of obsession, which then turns domineering and destroys the relationships you've mentioned.

4) Second poster Hmmn... lets start a thread on that.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:01 / 15.06.07

I don't want to give the impression that I'm attacking you or anything but... don't we pretty much already do that, e.g. in the Stupid Q's thread? Someone raises a problem and people look at it from the perspectives of their various traditions (this is the part I like best). Then other people offer solutions based on what they know. I'm not saying there's no room for the process to be developed on, of course--care to elaborate?

Mako is a hungry fish

15:38 / 15.06.07

The difference being that the Stupid Q's thread also fields some pretty random questions, geared more towards research and explanation, and has a more free-flow of ideas and debate; this is more about the meatier aspects of *using* magic to solve problems based upon experience, as opposed to problems *with* magic based on inexperience, with a greater degree of innate control to keep things more orderly.

03:39 / 16.06.07

Okay, I'll bite:

I'd like to hedge my bets in getting into the University of my choice, and further to the programs of my choice within that University. Obviously I'm going to do the paperwork, interviewing, etc.

But I'd also like to do some spell work towards that goal.

I'm interested in practical magically suggestions along those lines. I admit, I'm looking specifically for spell design suggestions, but I wouldn't mind other ideas too.

Significant points:
1: I'm looking at Religious Studies BA and then Counseling Psychology Masters program a couple years later. This work complements my Clergy training. I'm very clear that this is what the Powers That Be want me to do - one way or another. I don't know whether They care where I get the Religious Studies BA, but there aren't a lot of options for the particular flavor of Psych, so I really DO want into THIS school.
2: The school is named after a Saint, and I know where to buy the applicable candles. I don't do a lot of candle magic, however. I know all kinds of dressing for love and money, but I don't think I've ever heard what kind of dressing one should apply for "Education".
3: Speaking of money - this is going to be expensive, and I wouldn't mind targeted magical advice on how to encourage more of the money to manifest as grants and such, rather than student loans. Again, I'm already aware of the paperwork, interviews, etc. involved.

--Ember--

07:37 / 16.06.07

Is there magic that isn't in a real world context?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

00:32 / 17.06.07

Well, no, ultimately I don't think there is, in the sense that any act of true magic will at the very least effect changes on the practitioner, who is presumably real and thus part of the Real World(TM). However, there are some practices and paths that are geared to have a direct effect on the day-to-day life of the magician (or the magician's chums, the magician's enemies, people who have bunged the magician a few quid, etc), whereas others are more focused on achieving something on the inside. Then you have the grey area of noodling around with visualisations and astral travel and whatnot, which might be really-really-real and might not, and might in either case affect someone's day-to-day life or might not.

When I talk about real-world magic I'm usually referring to magic for meatspace issues--scoring a new job or clearing up a case of the lurgy. The bread-and-butter stuff.

Mako is a hungry fish

09:16 / 17.06.07

Ember - spells arn't really my thing, not in the conventional sense at least - I much prefer to invoke energies in order to evoke the changes I desire.

In your situation, I'd be dedicating myself to the course and the school in ways that make me most deserving, and pointing this out to any powers that had an interest in such things and the ability to affect the decision - i.e "yes there may be someone who will study a little bit more than me, but I deserve it because I'm actually going to do something with this knowledge that few people will - I'm going to make a real world difference that benefits you, me, and the advancement of mankind; I'm not talking about some piss ant church or observing good fridays, but rather creating a long lasting school of thought that advances mankinds love of both the powers that be and themselves, through a mutual understanding of both" (or whatever you think the powers that be would be interested in.)

Only problem is, doing such would require a crapload of energy to get into contact with those powers and convince them that you're serious - plus you'd have to actually be serious, because if they accepted this than they'd damn well expect you to live up with your side of the bargain, and litter your life with diversionary tactics if you didn't.

07:18 / 19.06.07

Only problem is, doing such would require a crapload of energy to get into contact with those powers and convince them that you're serious - plus you'd have to actually be serious, because if they accepted this than they'd damn well expect you to live up with your side of the bargain, and litter your life with diversionary tactics if you didn't.

Er, actually that part's a given, since it was the powers I work with regularly who finally got it through my thick skull that I AM going to do THIS full time. I have a fair amount of practice getting through to the powers that want my attention, and generally don't try to get ahold of those that didn't tag me first - I imagine that's rather harder.

--Ember--

10:24 / 19.06.07

I know all kinds of dressing for love and money, but I don't think I've ever heard what kind of dressing one should apply for "Education".

I'd suggest going for a modification of a court case dressing. You're looking for similar matters of "judgement" to go in your favour, so in essence, you can draw on the body of botanicals and conjure that are traditionally used in court case work - and just adapt them to your situation.

13:39 / 19.06.07

I'd suggest going for a modification of a court case dressing.

I remember a New Orleans prosecutor who complained about how often he needed to clean his suits. Defendants' families kept sneaking into the courtroom and coating his chair in one oil or another.

01:08 / 20.06.07

I think we're aiming for candle dressings only, here, not damage to people's clothing.

Besides, there's no opponent in this case, really, it's just me and the judges.

--Ember--

Mako is a hungry fish

06:20 / 20.06.07

What about the other people trying to get into the course? Do they count as opponents, or is there an excess supply of course placements available?

07:21 / 20.06.07

I have no idea how impacted the course is, but I have no desire to deliberately adversely affect the other applicants.

--Ember--

07:49 / 20.06.07

Court case conjure is generally aimed towards influencing the decision of a judge, which is why I suggested it. I'm not sure why you are getting hung up about adversely affecting or damaging the clothing of opponents. If you are looking to influence the decision of a judging body, which you appear to be, I thought pointing you in the direction of a huge body of folk magic about judge influencing might be a welcome suggestion - but obviously not...

Less searchable M0rd4nt

08:27 / 20.06.07

What about the other people trying to get into the course? Do they count as opponents, or is there an excess supply of course placements available?

Nnngh. That train of thought reminds me of me a few years ago, back when I was still buying into all the crud about accidental black magic in the books I'd read. "Oh, you can't possibly use magic to affect the outcome of a job interview! That would be black magic! Nothing more nor less than a psychic attack on the other candidates!" And of course swallowed it hook line and sinker and was stuck eating ramen noodles.

Thing is, the world is not a level playing-field. Sure, you're using magic to give you a bit of an advantage. Big deal. Nothing to stop the other candidates from boning up and doing the same thing. You'll always have disadvantages the other candiates don't. In my case I had to wrassle with ingrained attitudes towards epileptics, towards women in "male" industries, and so on. I don't think the world is a better or safer place because jobs I could have done standing on my head went to a bloke, or to someone who wasn't an epo, instead of to me.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

09:00 / 20.06.07

...and having said all that I've just realised I am STILL DOING IT! Gahh. I'm going away for a couple of weeks and the classes I teach will be getting a substitute teacher. I need to be making sure that my students don't decide they'd rather have her than me! I've lined up some fun activities for my last week to leave on a high note, but somehow haven't got around to doing anything witchy to keep the client. I must remedy this forthwith.

17:38 / 20.06.07

If you are looking to influence the decision of a judging body, which you appear to be, I thought pointing you in the direction of a huge body of folk magic about judge influencing might be a welcome suggestion - but obviously not...

*blinks* Gypsy, I love your idea. My comment about not adversely affecting people's clothing came from EvG's side comment about prosecuting attorneys. As soon as I'm not totally focused on passing my programming final, I will be digging into it more, because I suspect it's exactly what I'm looking for.

*confused* Why did.... Oh, I see - I completely failed to include the squee that was in my head when I actually replied just then. I'm sorry, that was unclear of me. No, I understood your suggestion, and agree that the admin and panel who are involved in letting me in, or not, are an appropriate equivalent to Judge and Jury in a court case.

Sure, you're using magic to give you a bit of an advantage. Big deal. Nothing to stop the other candidates from boning up and doing the same thing.

That's pretty much my thought. My getting in doesn't prevent anybody else from getting in. Heck, maybe it prompts them to add just one more to their list, and nobody loses at all? *shrugs* There's more than one way to get what you want. In my experience if I assume a limit to the context, all I do is reduce my odds of success when the real solution could be something I never imagined.

--Ember--

09:20 / 21.06.07

Oh, OK. I read your last posts as if you were dismissing the suggestion out of hand. Sorry about that. My mistake.

In that case, your main court case ingredient is "Little John to Chew", more commonly known as Galangal. Old time root workers in the South would go into court chewing this root and letting the juices run down their chin while fixing the judge they wanted to influence with "the stare". This might not be the best approach in your application interview, however. Although discretely chewing a bit of the root before you go in probably wouldn't hurt. The ingredient can also be used as a component of any bags, jars, powders, or candle dressings that you make up.

Other traditional court case ingredients vary from practitioner to practitioner. If I was doing it I would have some of the usual commanding and compelling ingredients in the mix. PM me if you need more details about that, as I don't mind giving suggestions for botanicals, but obviously prefer not to publish even partial recipes for my gear on the internet.

You want brown candles for court case work. Not sure why brown, but that's the traditional colour. I could speculate, but these things are lost to history really.

09:45 / 21.06.07

Hrm, so I shouldn't use the Saint candle that has the same name as the school? Or should I light both at the same time, after dressing the one for a court case and the other... in some other... manner...

Hmm...

--Ember--

09:49 / 21.06.07

Well, I'm bemused by the direction I catch my half-awake brain going in as I think about this.

You see, most of the time I focus on getting what I want out of the Universe by focusing on my being luckier, pushing the odds in my favor so I get what I want.

In trying to wrap my head around how I would go about this the way Gypsy is suggesting, I'm finding I actually can't conceptualize it as easily, because the back of my mind wants it to fit the playing-the-odds model I'm used to, when it's another model entirely.

This isn't a bad thing: Part of the reason I pinged you guys was to see if I could expand my perspective on the subject, after all. But I didn't realize just HOW ingrained my Luck habits were until I tried to think outside that particular box. It's a really BIG box, so I rarely hit the walls, you see.

--Ember--

10:08 / 21.06.07

I forgot about/overlooked the Saints candle aspect. If the University is named after a Saint it's too good to miss really. In that case, I would place the whole thing under auspices of that Saint, and for your candle dressing, I would just go for a general blessing oil. Van van or something like that would do the trick.

Or you could tackle the situation from another angle, get the names of the people interviewing you, photos of the school, whatever totems of the place and people involved you can get your hands on. Put them in a jar with various court case ingredients, then burn your brown candles dressed in court case oil on top of that.

Or you could hedge your bets and do both.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

10:19 / 21.06.07

Some pagans and heathens are a bit squicked by anything Sainty or otherwise Xtian-flavoured. (Not saying Ember is, and I'm certainly not, but just thought I would mention it.)

Mako is a hungry fish

12:19 / 21.06.07

fixing the judge they wanted to influence with "the stare".

So this is a mental domination technique designed to influence the Judges decision?

21:00 / 21.06.07

I have no issues with the Saints, though I do wish to be concientious of the actual nature of the Saint in question.

Or you could hedge your bets and do both.

Probably... Hmm, how does this sound:

It's a multi-step problem, and one of the other people I've talked to who does a lot of ritual design and has experience with candle magic suggested I get one saint candle for each phase of need/help/prayer.

So I could do a 2-candle-per-phase system. 1 prayer Saint candle to tie the whole thing together from phase to phase, and 1 dressed colored candle appropriate to the particular phase - the court candle for the Acceptance phase. A Money candle for the Grants and Scholarships phase, etc.

--Ember--

21:11 / 21.06.07

In that case, your main court case ingredient is "Little John to Chew", more commonly known as Galangal.

Heheheh -- I just recently concluded that the stuff growing out of control under my kitchen window was galangal. Great in curries.

Willing to ship fresh root sections in return for favors or good juju....

06:49 / 22.06.07

Actually, I just read the Wikipedia entry, and it sounds like it would go well in Chai. If it's all that common to Chinese and Thai cooking, I should have no difficulty at all finding it locally.

--Ember--

07:39 / 24.06.07

Okay, I went to the local shop today and picked up some colored candles. The lady there strongly suggested I not use Court Case specifically, because she percieves it as having to do with legal battles, as opposed to it being about decisions made in my favor.

Since I realized that the first decision I need them to make is just to open the Winter quarter to transfer applicants, I went for the Way-opening options. I left the store with Ellegua's song stuck in my head. Though I haven't had a chance yet to even annoint the candles, much less set them up and light them, I already have a bit of good news. This evening I ran into the friend of mine who works for the school in question, and she tells me they're extremely likely to open for Winter applicants, and that I should fill out my application now, so that I am ready when the time comes.

I will re-visit the Court Case option when I get to the "Please accept my application" part of the equation.

--Ember--