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Ethics in Hip-Hop

 
 
Alex's Grandma
17:44 / 07.06.07
Is it all right for rappers to carry on in the way that they have been? I'm thinking about Pimp C in particular - I'm unfamiliar with his work, but also planning on staying that way.

Do hip-hop artistes who routinely inflict their troubling ideas about murder, insanity and sexual humiliation on the general public get an easier ride, critically, than sad young men with guitars?

And if so, why is that?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
18:00 / 07.06.07
No, they get a harder ride, which is why these threads are never called 'Ethics In Industrial'.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
18:02 / 07.06.07
Also, this is essentially a joke thread - at least in the past when people have made these claims about hip hop artists "carrying on how they have been", they've not admitted in their opening lines that they've never heard anything by their main example.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
18:21 / 07.06.07
Is it all right for rappers to carry on in the way that they have been?

Except there's more than one way in which rappers have been "carrying on", that is, presenting themselves, choosing subject matter, etc., and more than one opinion on this within the rap discourse. One would not conflate David Bowie with Pantera just because they're both involved in making some sort of rock and roll, and likewise, the idea that the phrase "rappers" uncomplicatedly contains Pimp C and Andre 3000 and KRS 1 and Flava Fla V, the idea that they all "carry on" in the same way because "rappers", is pretty ridiculous.

So, that said, are these ways, plural, of carrying on "all right"? Some yes, and some no. Many in between - just like every other interesting music scene ever. One would need to look at it in a case-by-case study, not just ask if "rap" is all right or not, which is like asking if "blue" or "bees" are all right or not.

Do hip-hop artistes who routinely inflict their troubling ideas about murder, insanity and sexual humiliation on the general public get an easier ride, critically, than sad young men with guitars?

1) Surely "Do the section of hip-hop artistes who ..."

2) Depends what you mean by critics. Do we mean people who write for Pitchfork or people who write for the Mail? Or the BBC? Or Vicars?

Even then, I think the answer to the question, in most cases, is no. The overwhelming majority of critics are white. This probably has an effect on their opinions, willingness/capability to understand where an artist is coming from, and so on. Rappers get mocked, or outraged over, for violence and etc while a rock band saying the same or worse is lionised for being challenging.

Of course white/not hip-hop artists cause controversies of their own. The difference is there are a) nearly always as many people raving about them as there are decrying them, and b) for the same reasons - Metal being probably a good example of this. Metal-hater says: "Noo! This music is devillish and agressive", whereas Metal-lover says "Yeeah! This music is devillish and agressive".

Whereas people who like rap clearly see something different in it to what the Mail sees. The difference in opinion is probably this, or appears to be in my experience: the Mail reads promotion of violence, where before there was none, i.e. music precedes violence; whereas rap fan probably reads discussion/comment on, and lamentation of, violence that has existed before the music, by people who are intertwined in said violence and thus are less able to make art from a position outside of it.

Bob Dylan might write one kind of song about Vietnam, and a Vietnam vet might write another kind. Both might be saying the same things in very different ways.
 
 
_pin
19:03 / 07.06.07
Fly; this thread is spin-off from the current Dizzee Rascal thread, wherein you said this discussion would only be a distortion. I think you're right, but that's why this is here as a seperate topic. I'm sure we've all wrung hands over Whitehouse and Death in June in relevant threads, and about Sotos over in Books, but this is coming largely off an issue with one guest rapper on one song, and so here we are.

I agree that there is a disproportionate amount of attention focused on the behaviour and attitudes of black/poor muscians working in black/poor disciplines, probablly in part due to the menace these figures represent, both as people in themselves and also as corrupting influences on the nicer, richer, whiter young.

On the other hand, he self-describes as Pimp C and spits on a track about authenticity. I'm not saying there is no defence for this, what I'm more interested in is why is it that we cannot wonder about why it is that he has made these choices, and if it is a result of our relative positions within British society, is it not to be lamented that there is this breakdown in communication? Not in the sense of instilling a sense of basic moral decency in him, but in that power in this society is such that the issue of ethics cannot even be approached.

Perhaps we should have an Ethics in Talking About Hip-Hop thread, instead, in which we discuss what knowledge about Pimp C, et al, in which we discuss what it is we are asking of "hip-hop" artists, and why that is. What are the analoguous demands we make of other lyricists, and why do we treat rappers differently?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
19:45 / 07.06.07
I'm attempting to download some of Pimp C's shit right now.

I suppose my point is that it doesn't really matter what his music sounds like - I'm guessing average, but I'll see - so much as the working behind it. Is Pimp C genuinely interested in building a career as a dangerous misogynist, or is he just playing? And if so, why does he find it funny?

Having set out his stall as someone who's overtly in favour of the pimp lifestyle (this being something that involves drugging, beating up, or otherwise establishing control over individuals who simply don't deserve that kind of treatment - nobody does) I wonder if Pimp C himself mightn't be a bit worried about the pointless, tired and depressing face he's shown to the world? It may not be his last chance, but I find myself hoping it is. Even if he flow like Rakim.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
19:52 / 07.06.07
Well I'll say this for Pimp C - he's no Dr Octagon!

His main influences seem to be Fiddy and Morris Minor. And the Majors.
 
  
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