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Cat killing artists are found guilty.

 
  

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deja_vroom
12:55 / 17.05.02
Er... natural *for cats*. They can't be judged with the same standards as us. Different worldviews, set of goals, interests etc etc. However, the definition of "natural" when applied to human matters can really get tricky. Morality, they say, which is what shapes what each society considers as "natural", is only persuasion, as Setevenson puts it. It can change. There were socieites where burying a child in the foundation of a building was something really natural.
 
 
Krister Kjellin
13:42 / 17.05.02
"Natural" is a risky word to use, especially when passing moral judgment. Why are anthills and the sticks used by woodpeckers considered natural, while cars and computers are unnatural? Is war unnatural for people but not for ants (ants are always good for comparisons -- I like ants!)?

My advice is to stay clear of it.

Back on topic -- how much does our rage depend on intent?

This is a basic philosophical question, of course, but does it make any difference that these guys intention was causing pain, while the meat industry just wants fast, cost-effective flesh for mass consumtion? Most philosophers would say no, but I'm not at all sure. And it seems to be a divider in this discussion as well.

Please convince me!
 
 
Naked Flame
07:58 / 21.05.02
When this thread was active before I was kind of stewing about the meat issue, so if you're gonna talk about it again I gotta say this...

As far as I'm concerned it's really very very simple. If you eat meat or skin cats you're causing suffering to another being or group of beings. As a sentient being with free will you have the choice over whether or not to do this and you are, as ever, directly responsible for your actions. Yes, society has double standards: you can choose not to. Now, I'll admit that living a life totally free from double standards is a virtual impossibility in this day and age, to save Haus the trouble of proving it: doesn't mean you shouldn't try, dammit.

In the case of meat eating, the argument is complicated by an absent referent: the suffering that our food experiences takes place in absentia, so it is quite possible to remain experientially unaware of it. In other words, we know it hurts, but we can't see it hurting, so we elide the pain from our plates. Meanwhile, this process creates entire industries full of people who kill for a living and become pretty much deadened to it... knife goes in, guts come out, knife goes in, guts come out, repeat ad infinitum. The buddhist in me tells me that the cause of suffering is birth. We can't ever get rid of it entirely. But there's a very big difference between mass social de facto acceptance of animal suffering and wilful torture.

the naked lunch: a frozen moment when everybody sees what is really on the end of every fork.
 
 
Naked Flame
10:59 / 21.05.02
ps. just like humans, cats defy general definition. I have known ultra-bloodthirsty cats and cats that run screaming from mice...
 
 
.
20:23 / 21.05.02
But the real question is:
Is (causing) suffering necessarily morally wrong?
 
 
Naked Flame
08:14 / 22.05.02
(yes.)
 
 
Nessus
16:33 / 23.08.02
I think all these comparisons (cat vs. whale vs. fish) and "what ifs" trivialize an important issue.

The way I see it, the point is not that it was a cat, as opposed to some less cute and fuzzy animal, that makes people react so strongly to this particular instance of animal cruelty. Nor is it valid to compare an act of this nature to the profit driven meat industry. Industry has illustrated its unwavering allegiance to the mighty dollar in every industry that has or will exist. The oil and gas industry has caused catastrophic damage to the atmosphere due to pollution. The energy industry results in toxic waste and nuclear "accidents".

These sick bastards willingly tortured a living, breathing animal in the name of what? Does it matter whether cats torture mice? Human beings go on and on about their superiority over animals until it suits them to say "well, cats turture mice ya know," or "the meat industry does far worse, so it really isn't THAT bad that ONE cat was skinned alive".

Animals are tortured all the time but there is usually no evidence as to who is responsible. In this case, there was a video which could be shown or described to the public. The point is to force people to notice that these things happen and to make a public display that, as a group, we think torturing animals is wrong and if you are caught doing it there will be consequences.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
00:23 / 24.08.02
I just made the horrible mistake of reading this with my cat beside me. I'm never letting it leave the house again.
 
 
paw
17:07 / 24.08.02
i love the way haus has turned this thread into a serious discussion about tuna
 
 
paw
13:23 / 25.08.02
' I wonder if working in an abbatoir could deaden this kid's empathy. I know I've had to suppress certain areas of my brain while working some jobs.'


you've obviously never saw 'The Butcher Boy' then wembley
 
 
MJ-12
17:05 / 26.08.02
The point is to force people to notice that these things happen and to make a public display that, as a group, we think torturing animals is wrong and if you are caught doing it there will be consequences.

That really only carries water if they 'artistes' were to say, "yeah, it's appalling, throw the fucking book at us."
 
  

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