BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Screenplays

 
 
matthew.
01:44 / 25.05.07
Does anybody use Final Draft to write screenplays? Does anybody write screenplays?

I got a copy of Final Draft... completely legally... erm.... and I was playing around with it and it seems kind of neat, except for its blandness in look, the program I mean. I like how it does all the formatting for you, to the Hollywood standard, so that's nice.

I'm starting to formulate a screenplay in my head, a cop movie in direct retaliation to "Bad Boys" and "Point Break". I don't want to parody these movies or anything (Hot Fuzz does that much better). I want to write a non-Hollywood cop movie, about corrupt cops, in a non-linear format, with some hellish plot about corrupt cops, trying to go straight, being framed for a crime they didn't commit (hello, irony!). They try to go straight but end up fucking up on every step. I want to add this tertiary character, who is introduced laterally to the protagonists. He's an everyman and every time the cops touch his life, it goes to shit. The surviving cop's "final stand" if you will, occurs in the everyman's house. I also want to slavishly follow the three act structure cause I'm a bit of a formalist. It's that damn Alan Moore influence. This cop movie will also be super symbol heavy. I want to have notions of keys and locks, and even a reference to a crystal skull (as a source of power over destiny). What d'ya think?

Do you use Final Draft? Do you write screenplays?
 
 
grant
18:42 / 25.05.07
I use a copy of Final Draft borrowed from a friend. It rather frustratingly stopped working on the Mac I was using it on after an OS upgrade. I can get the demo version to work on a PC at home, but have to write as an rtf file first, then let it do the formatting when I import.

Yes, write screenplays.

Need write more.
 
 
matthew.
13:44 / 26.05.07
When you write screenplays, do you find that you adhere to the three act structure a lot? Or do you go all willy-nilly?
 
 
This Sunday
15:57 / 26.05.07
I would suggest letting the acts come naturally. Or, ignoring them, laying out the story in its beats or as a whole, and then doing the David Franzoni technique and just pick your act-breaks afterwards. Stories tend to sculpt themselves.

This is presuming there isn't a meta-type reason for adhering to very locked timespans or making the acts/arc totally noticeable. There may be a good reason to do so. Equal measures or decreasing by two thirds each time, or however. But if it's not necessary, I'd, again, suggest letting the thing be itself, pacing and all.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
01:21 / 31.05.07
there's a begining, a middle, and an end. and it all happens in about 90-120 pages. there's yr 3 acts.

unless yr writing a stan brackhage movie, you may as well understand the 3 act approach.

to the original poster -- are you planning to shoot this movie yourself, raise financing, or just show the script to your friend?
 
 
matthew.
02:50 / 31.05.07
I'm sorry, but is that snark? I can't help but read it as rude, so I don't want to respond 'cause I can't read the tone.



Anyways...

Are there any good sites out there about script formatting or specific rules that I may want to check out?

Also, Bendis once said that the best way to learn how to write a script is to read other scripts. Is this true? Do you agree?
 
 
This Sunday
03:11 / 31.05.07
Reading other screenplays is a good idea, sure, to get a feeling for timing, rhythm, and the sorts of shortcuts used in screenplays that aren't found in prose, but also good for noting where people deviate from the standards. William Goldman's screenplays don't look like David Mamet's which don't look entirely like what you see as a mock-script in many screenwriting textbooks.

I would suggest reading screenplays of movies you're familiar with, to see how the pacing, the structure or phrasing, effect the finished onscreen presentation, as well. Or where the film doesn't adhere to the screenplay. I'm not presuming on you, really, but I have known people to immerse themselves in screenplays to help themselves, but immerse themselves in 'great scripts' for films they hadn't actually seen, and well, that's helpful in some ways just because they're really good scripts, but it's not as helpful.

Beginning, middle, end, is not (especially in a nonlinear presentation) really what the three act structure is about, of course, and I don't think it matters whether this is a solicited script, something you're thinking of pushing through an agent or something for a friend or yourself to direct. Script's a script. I would also suggest watching films or looking at screenplays and marking out the acts on your own. Doesn't ever have to be three acts, even if that's the most traditional from a eurocentric standpoint. TV's often in five, a lot of Asian films tend to be four acts, and so on. The one act, for some people, in incredibly potent, and these aren't necessarily time-based at all.

Take all the above with a grain and do your own thing, though. And good luck.
 
 
This Sunday
03:27 / 31.05.07
I will note that it's generally considered inappropriate or bad form to dictate technical information like camera angles or how to do a certain effects shot, in the script, but if you feel a particular focus or method of getting the info onscreen across to the audience, just write it in a way that allows the reader of the script to visualize/imagine.

The shooting script will have the specific technical necessities laid out. But, for example, the script for Gladiator has a good bit of shiny flashy car and Lone Ranger metaphors that will never show onscreen in a literal form, but inform the people working on the film how it should look/feel to an audience.

If you're working really low-budget (which is where most of my experience is), you probably should then write in the technical stuff, cuts and jumpcuts and pans, what's to be a prop arm and where you need a real hand, for time and money reasons. Not that it means anyone would ever adhere to your in-script suggestions.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
02:20 / 12.06.07
didn't mean any snark, sorry you read it that way.

i think the intended audience is important -- if you're going to shoot it yourself, then all that advice about "don't do camera angles" is less important. if you're going to try to sell i to major producers, then getting the form exactly right is much more important. if you want to get a fairly good amount of money to do a movie, there is a major difference between how you might approach the writing then, say, when you write experimental poetry, or a song.

which isn't to say you must cravenly write within a formula; far from it. you must bring a totally unique and personal story to the table. but you must also do it while thinking about what it means for people to throw down the money a movie needs and how to keep people sitting still for 2 hours in a dark room / at the television / etc.

i do think that begining, middle, end is exactly where we get the tree act structure from conceptually. even if the story is told backwards (memento) non-linear (pulp fiction) or totally shuffled (bad timing) there is still a discernible forward motion to the emotion of the story, and it's important to be able to see that in movies and figure out how it's going to work in your own script.

reading other scripts is incredibly helpful. its really interesting to see how people describe certain kinds of actions, how long scenes go on for in terms of page count, and what the story-telling aspects of dialogue looks like on the page.

i also find it super rewarding to watch movies and think about them in terms of script pages. i always watch dvds with the timer on and note down when interesting turning points happen, interpreting the minute numbers as page numbers. i actually keep an massive folder on my laptop of all the movies i've watched (when i can be bothered, i mean) with entries like "18 - first sight of the girl. he's doomed" (edward scissorhands) or "24 he gets the girls to come with him... END OF ACT" (The Swimmer) -- this way you can get this at-a-glance look at how other movies tell their stories in terms of TIME.

another fun / informative thing to do when you are watching movies is to spot the act breaks. notice what minute those happen and how each act ties the story together.

all this is like a totally different form of criticism than when you are interpreting or analyzing the meaning / metaphors / etc. of a film. this all a way of understanding the storytelling from within, so you can see what's at work in the mechanics and (hopefully) use that as you are building your own toolset for scriptwriting.
 
 
TroyJ15
05:01 / 12.06.07
Bendis is right...

http://www.script-o-rama.com/

I use this anytime I have a formatting question. Usually I think of movie that has a similar scene like the one I'm trying to script and then I go to the above link and find it.

As for the 3-act structure argument --- This may seem a bit assbackwards but i notice that most film's 3 acts reach their zenith during a heightened drama/action. Since this is a cop story maybe you should think of what 3 action set pieces or high drama you want in the film and how that can be (responsibly) plugged into the 3 sections of your script. After that you can kind of push the plot and the characters in the direction to meet those 3 major points that should be set-up in order of relevence. I do this a bit, taking into account the whole time what each character needs to get across as we approach each moment and how to get him there without forcing him there.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
06:22 / 14.06.07
and, um, i like final draft too.

been using its "index carding" and "scene outlining" function after i'm through a draft or two to see how the scenes are breaking down. neat.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
11:57 / 14.06.07
I can't afford Final Draft.

May I ask what these bits of software actually do, and if they would translate well into my comics writing work? I've read a lot of scripts in my life, but I've never really seriously considered "screenwriting software."

I mean, I'm capable of hitting Tab and CAPS LOCK all by myself, and most of the screenplays I've seen can basically just be done with a couple of macro buttons if Tab and CAPS LOCK aren't your thing, yes?
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
12:14 / 14.06.07
Re-reading, that seems snarkier than I meant it to. Basically, I know that there must be great utility in these programs, but I'm not sure what it is based on what I see on the printed scripted page.
 
 
grant
15:16 / 14.06.07
If collaborating, the "script notes" function kicks ass.

Little box appears wherever, you click it, it brings a little window up that says, "Needs a better poem here" or "Is this location available?" or whatever. And you can edit the note, put in replies, etc.

The auto-completing/formatting thing is nice, too. It remembers characters' names and locations, so it'll fill 'em in.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
15:23 / 14.06.07
i agree that final draft is insanely expensive software for what it does, and that is irritating.

because the format of a script is so important, its nice to be able to just madly type without thinking about it. the scene organizing features that i mentioned are cool. and really one of its most important aspects is simply that it's what everyone uses professionally, so people expect you to be able to read and send final draft documents.

i dont think it would help with comic scripts. there are many styles of comic script writing, and they are all acceptable, and they don't ever seem to look like a screenplay.
 
 
grant
15:51 / 15.06.07
I got my copy of FD from a friend who'd bought the latest version; I can't install a full version, but the demo does everything the full one does - as long as you have the CD in yer drive.

So it's possible to use the thing on the cheap.
 
 
matthew.
19:08 / 16.06.07
I'm having such a tough time starting. It's super frustrating. I normally just dive right into my projects, but because of the very careful structure, I need to plot it out. But I can't start. I get lost after the first couple scenes. Where do the characters go? GRAH!
 
 
Mystery Gypt
07:58 / 17.06.07
there's a variety of activities you can do to break out of that. Because there's so much to do on a screenplay, if one forward motion isn't working, a whole other one will. so here's a menu of things to try:

- write a biography of yr main character. maybe new bits of information will arise that help you in your story

- meditate on the ending, the final scene or two. what is the last big thing you want to have happen, what is the thing you are driving to? like, if you were writing, say, Blade Runner right now, you'd think -- "ok at the very end, Deckard and Roy have a face to face conflict where Roy chases and tortures Deckard using his superior strength... there is no way out for Deckard but in the last moment, Roy describes "what's its like to be a slave" and then dies of old age... they are alone on a roof in the rain" -- try something like that, really flesh out your ending. now you know where you are going to.

- write down in a free form manner any individual scene you can think of. then look at them all and see how one builds on top of the other

- think about what the music might be like, and if that might inspire more scenes

- imagine what the trailer would be like

- meditate on your "bad guy" -- without being reductive, because im sure you have a complex morality, but there is someone who is in the way of the protagonist -- so who is that, and why does he/she believe in what he/she is doing? that deckard/roy scene is a good example of what can come from taking your bad guys side, so try that.

- try to write a list of all the things your protagonist wants. then see if you can boil it down to one thing, and see how your whole movie can be a series of event blocking him from that one ever important goal.

report back here with any results!
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
15:27 / 18.06.07
Slight follow-up: there's an open-source film development utility called Celtx that has a good screenwriting utility built into it. It doesn't have nearly the flexibility that Final Draft and Movie Magic are supposed to have, but it is meeting my needs for now.
 
 
Benny the Ball
10:43 / 25.06.07
Yes, I write screenplays, and yes, I use FInal Draft (7) just for the formatting more than anything. I've also been lucky enough to sell x2 scripts and perform x1 re-write in my time, but need to write more. Trying a series at the moment.

Reading other scripts is good for getting a feel for the layout, but should put a big gap between reading scripts and other sources and writting. Never try to use anothers voice, find your own.

Tips I have (or rather things I have used)

Definitely have someone read the dialogue out loud. Most early scripts read too theatrically or too wordy.
If you are a man/woman/other get a woman/man/another to read the characters that you feel you understand least and give feedback.
Don't try to write another gender - just write a character.

The begining and the end are the tie ups - you can go anywhere, anyhow inbetween.

If you want to write a script - write what you want.
If you want to sell a screenplay to a studio - follow the rules and give it over as soon as you sell it. You gave it up the moment you decided to follow the rules...

Sorry, that last one sounded a bit Joe Esterez!
 
 
Mystery Gypt
14:03 / 25.06.07
oh that reminds me, joe esterhaus' book Hollywood Animal is an amazingly fun read, and can be pretty inspirational (yes, yes it can) and certainly helpd and so i reccomend it.

i didn't read his other one, which was ostensibly even more about writing.
 
 
Spaniel
19:25 / 28.06.07
The BBC have put together a nifty bit of free screenplay formatting software.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
23:20 / 01.08.07
I've gone from tentatively trying out Celtx to giving Celtx two unabashed thumbs up. It's not as configurable as pay software, but it's open source and seems like a very active community. It's doing everything I need -- the PDF pagination functions are less than perfect, but as far as raw scripting, it's better than fine.
 
  
Add Your Reply