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A barrister provoked outrage during ongoing UK rape case

 
 
Ticker
00:21 / 24.05.07
A barrister provoked outrage yesterday by claiming that the victim of an alleged gang rape was so fat she would have been 'glad of the attention'.

We've been screaming and jumping around in the headsick thread about this but Quants mentioned maybe people in the UK might be able to actually do something about it.

This is the sort of thing I write to the ACLU about and my local gov reps. I'm not really clear on the UK system but shouldn't this person be booted?

I feel very strongly regarding people who justify rape in any situation especially when they try and place the blame on the victim by doing so.
 
 
Quantum
00:30 / 24.05.07
First step for complaining about barristers is their chambers, which I imagine are being flooded with complaints right now. Let's help flood them some more! Someone find out which chambers she's with and then if they don't respond or you're not happy the governing body seems to be the barstandardsboard.org.uk.
 
 
Quantum
00:32 / 24.05.07
Oh no. Oh I can't. I tried to look but the Metro article made me too angry. Tomorrow.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
04:45 / 24.05.07
While I consider the 'argument' offensive and stupid I doubt complaining about it will get anywhere, the solicitor is simply using what she presumably thought was the best tactic to get her client off, I suspect that she felt she would be able to attack the credibility of the defendant in a way that, if done by one of her male colleagues would have automatically backfired. Or maybe I've been watching too much Boston Legal. But this may also be a situation of using an argument in a court case which she wouldn't dream of using in real life.
 
 
Saturn's nod
05:49 / 24.05.07
Sheilagh Davies
Barristers (Other) based in the Kings Bench Walk area of London
Tel: 020 73532501
Address: 10 Kings Bench Walk, Temple London EC4Y 7EB
 
 
*
06:27 / 24.05.07
Here are, I think, the applicable parts of the code of conduct:

General purpose of the Code

104. The general purpose of this Code is to provide the requirements for practice as a barrister and the rules and standards of conduct applicable to barristers which are appropriate in the interests of justice and in particular:

(a) in relation to self-employed barristers to provide common and enforceable rules and standards which require them:

(i) to be completely independent in conduct and in professional standing as sole practitioners;

(ii) to act only as consultants instructed by solicitors and other approved persons (save where instructions can be properly dispensed with);

(iii) to acknowledge a public obligation based on the paramount need for access to justice to act for any client in cases within their field of practice;

(b) to make appropriate provision for employed barristers taking into account the fact that such barristers are employed to provide legal services to or on behalf of their employer.

Part III - Fundmental Principles

Applicable to all barristers

301. A barrister must have regard to paragraph 104 and must not:

(a) engage in conduct whether in pursuit of his profession or otherwise which is:

(i) dishonest or otherwise discreditable to a barrister;

(ii) prejudicial to the administration of justice; or

(iii) likely to diminish public confidence in the legal profession or the administration of justice or otherwise bring the legal profession into disrepute;


(b) engage directly or indirectly in any occupation if his association with that occupation may adversely affect the reputation of the Bar or in the case of a practising barrister prejudice his ability to attend properly to his practice.

Part VII – Conduct of Work by Practising Barristers

708. A barrister when conducting proceedings in Court:

(a) is personally responsible for the conduct and presentation of his case and must exercise personal judgement upon the substance and purpose of statements made and questions asked;

(b) must not unless invited to do so by the Court or when appearing before a tribunal where it is his duty to do so assert a personal opinion of the facts or the law;

(c) must ensure that the Court is informed of all relevant decisions and legislative provisions of which he is aware whether the effect is favourable or unfavourable towards the contention for which he argues;

(d) must bring any procedural irregularity to the attention of the Court during the hearing and not reserve such matter to be raised on appeal;

(e) must not adduce evidence obtained otherwise than from or through the client or devise facts which will assist in advancing the lay client's case;

(f) must not make a submission which he does not consider to be properly arguable;

(g) must not make statements or ask questions which are merely scandalous or intended or calculated only to vilify insult or annoy either a witness or some other person;

(h) must if possible avoid the naming in open Court of third parties whose character would thereby be impugned;

(i) must not by assertion in a speech impugn a witness whom he has had an opportunity to cross-examine unless in cross-examination he has given the witness an opportunity to answer the allegation;

(j) must not suggest that a victim, witness or other person is guilty of crime, fraud or misconduct or make any defamatory aspersion on the conduct of any other person or attribute to another person the crime or conduct of which his lay client is accused unless such allegations go to a matter in issue (including the credibility of the witness) which is material to the lay client's case and appear to him to be supported by reasonable grounds.


I think we would be most likely to succeed by drawing attention to the fact that this incident has shown the legal profession in a bad light, and if unredressed will drag the bar into disrepute. It does not follow that because a teenage girl is heavyset she will enjoy being raped; there is no chain of reasoning appropriate to a court of law that from the evidence of her weight can prove or even strongly suggest consent to sexual activity. I think that shows that the statement was intended only to "vilify, insult, and annoy".
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
06:37 / 24.05.07
I believe that Sheilagh Davies belongs to the Chambers of David Nathan, QC - 9 Lincoln's Inn Fields, London. Remarkably, she appears to be the go-to barrister in the Chambers for sex cases.
 
 
Ex
07:12 / 24.05.07
there is no chain of reasoning appropriate to a court of law that from the evidence of her weight can prove or even strongly suggest consent to sexual activity.

I think this is the nub - using a common prejudice to try to encourage the jury to make an intuitive leap is not on. But I'm interested as to how far barristers routinely present 'commonsense' argument that are completely unreasonable and offensive arguments to support the contention that someone has consented to sex. As I understand it, because predicting the likelihood that a person will consent to sex is near to impossible, they often build on really shallow foundations - here, not thin = grateful for attention = consenting, but also common (I think) is the idea that certain clothes = sexually active, grateful for attention = prone to having sex at short notice with strangers*. Past sexual history is used a lot - in one way understandably, as people can have patterns of behaviour, but in another way it just cements this idea that there is a type of person who has sex a lot, and as a result can have no legal protection of their right to refuse. (Which makes me really aware that every time I have a new sexual partner or engage in a non-normative sexual activity, my chances of helpign a successful conviction for rape or assault dwindle frantically.)

(There's a big gap here between 'what I think can be feasibly prosecuted under the present system' and 'what I think constitutes rape or assault' - sorry if I appear to be callously blurring that distinction. Obviously, no matter how often or how you have sex, you still have the right to consent or refuse.)

So how far is this commonly taken, and in which directions? I've seen a lot of this particular case, but I don't know if it's more unpleasant than others (not that one shouldn't haul it up to account and complain anyway). Are barristers allowed to encourage the jury to generalise from a person's class, or regional background, or ethnicity, that they're more likely to be having sex in certain circumstances? Or would that be considered too much - in which case, why is the grateful sex-starved overweight girl an acceptable stereotype to bring up?

(*rather than arguing that clothes had giving the impression to the accused that a person consented, which is slightly different)
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:43 / 24.05.07
This is the email address for David Nathan chambers: chambers@9lif.co.uk

The Bar Standards Board prefers you to complain to the chambers first.
 
 
Ticker
14:54 / 24.05.07
Remarkably, she appears to be the go-to barrister in the Chambers for sex cases.

*sits down*
Buh?

Thank you for taking action on this! Do you think Stateside emails would have any impact?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:21 / 24.05.07
Hang on, you want to argue with people who are paid silly amounts of money to argue for a living. Have the years you've spent on this board with Haus taught you nothing?
 
 
*
16:25 / 24.05.07
You can't tell me that the entire UK legal profession would support this. I know the US state Bars are very VERY particular about lawyers doing anything that they think shows the profession in bad light. I knew someone who made a TV commercial for his practice that was just like every other TV commercial for a law practice, except that there was a Troll doll on the bookshelf over his right shoulder while he was being a talking head. The Bar made him pull it.

SURELY this counts?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:00 / 24.05.07
But I doubt there's even widespread public knowledge that this happened, let alone outrage at it.
 
 
This Sunday
20:42 / 24.05.07
Mainstream media, at least here in the States, tends to keep rape-related trials relatively quiet, but I did assume at least online discussion/outrage at this would grow from yesterday. It hasn't, noticeably. So, yeah, widespread public ignorance in the UK or across the globe is probably true enough, but it doesn't have to be that way. I'm kicking links and notes to as many people as I can, in the hopes of generating the kind of noise I, myself, haven't got pull for.
 
 
alas
20:49 / 24.05.07
The point of complaining to her chambers or to the bar is not to "win" an argument; the point would be to let them know that a contingent of intelligent members of the British public, on whose good will they depend for their livelihood (and they all surely depend not just on private monies but also, at least indirectly, on public funds, yes?--via legal aid cases and the money that supports the judiciary, etc.), are deeply offended by this argument and believe that it does present the barrister, & the legal profession as a whole if she is in no way held accountable for her words, in a very bad light.

You may not "win" the argument, but the chamber will have to deal with the complaints; if they get a significant number of them--even just 10-20--they will have to assume that each one represents something like 500 people who did not write/call, and they will MAYBE think twice about using such arguments in the future.
 
 
Quantum
10:28 / 26.05.07
Alas is made of sense.
 
 
Saturn's nod
06:33 / 02.06.07
Dear [gender signifier],

I am in receipt of your e-mail. Mr David Nathan QC (head of chamebrs) is currently away. The jury in the case to which you refer were unable to return a verdict. The prosecution are considering whether to apply for a re-trial. Until this matter is concluded, i am sure you will appreciate that Mr Nathan could not possibly comment.


[name]
Senior Clerk.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
15:39 / 05.06.07
A similar situation happened in Australia where a barrister who suggested to teenage gang rape victim Miss C that she was "moaning in pleasure" stated: -

"It is unfortunate that alleged victims have at times been questioned in a way that is upsetting," Mr Jankowski said yesterday.

"However, in certain cases that must be undertaken in order to ensure that the accused receives a fair trial."

Mr Jankowski was appearing for one of 14 men accused of repeatedly raping Miss C over six hours at three different western Sydney locations in August 2000.

His client, one of the men found guilty of the rapes who was a juvenile at the time and cannot be named, had claimed Miss C willingly accompanied him into a toilet for sex, which she denied.

It was in the context of the noises coming from the toilet, which Miss C said was her crying for help, that Mr Jankowski put the controversial question which related only to this one allegation of sexual assault.

"You have to ensure that in doing your job for your client in cross-examination which at times has to be robust, you are also mindful of the alleged victim's distress and the jury's reaction to that distress."

 
 
Supaglue
09:58 / 07.06.07
That Australian trial seems to be slightly different - The scenario outlined by the barrister was based upon issues of fact, and was the putting of a defence case.

The charming Ms Davies however was passing an unpleasant, opinion based comment of no probative value.
 
 
*
16:42 / 07.06.07
"Moaning in pleasure" is not fact, it's an interpretation. You can hear someone making sounds but only the person making them can tell you for sure what they signify. If you cast doubt on the person's own explanation of the significance of the sounds they made during an act they charge was rape in a court of law it's tantamount to "she really wanted it anyway," which is exactly what Ms. Davies has proposed. Equally, it's possible to be raped, experience physical pleasure and vocalize accordingly, and for the act to still be wrong and a crime.
 
 
Supaglue
09:25 / 08.06.07
I don't think that's the case at all. If a material element of the evidence hinges around the noises from the toilet, then it's a matter that should be put to witnesses who heard the sounds as to what their interpretation of the noises were. Any interpretation has evidential merit to the facts.

Challenging a victim's account of events has to be done. The Australian barrister above has to put his client's version of events. It can and should be put in as careful and sensitive way as possible, but it still needs to be put - from the context of the article it seems the barrister was alive to the difficulties of these cases and hopefully was as delicate as he could be.

I think it's too far a step to say that putting to the victim that the noises were not of distress is tantamount to saying she was 'asking for it'. It is implying that the sex was consensual and that she is lying about events, certainly, but there is never going to be a way around that in a trial. The very fact there is a trial at all, and not a guilty plea entered at an earlier stage is by its nature saying that the complainant is not correct, for whatever reason.

A victim should also have a right to hear the defendant's account of events and provide rebuttal.
 
 
Supaglue
13:01 / 08.06.07
As an afterthought, perhaps 'victim' is too emotive a word to be using as I have.
 
  
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