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Underground > Temple >

Brazilian witchcraft

  
 
rakker
15:18 / 19.05.07
Hi!

I'm thinking of doing and article on brazilian witchcraft/magical traditions and/or religious traditions from africa still prevalent in the culture. But I'm at a bit of a loss as were to start. I'm currently in Natal, the captial of Rio Grande do Norte. Were would be wise to head off to? Salvador?

Also; what *are* in fact the traditions?

I'm very grateful if anyone here can clue me in. Links/references/potential sources/explanations and any other tips much appreciated!

Best regards,
r.
 
 
rakker
15:20 / 19.05.07
(I don't speak Portuguese, but it seems so far that around 50% of the people I meet can communicate fairly well in Spanish, so I get by.)
 
 
ghadis
10:43 / 20.05.07
Dont have much info myself i'm afraid but i was just wondering why you're thinking of doing an article on something you know nothing about. I tend to think that articles work best when they are written by people who have some knowledge and experience of the subject that they are writing about. Unless you're writing something for a school or college project i guess or someone has asked you to research and write it.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:35 / 20.05.07
Seconded. Rakker, old chap, I rather fear you haven't thought this through. Is this a specific request or assignment from someone else? If not, maybe you should consider another subject. Unless you're planning a long-term,in-depth study I suspect that the results will be rather thin and ill-informed, especially since you've chosen to come to an English-speaking magic forum populated largely by Brits and Americans to ask what the magical traditions of Brazil are. I do hope you're researching elsewhere.

I also suspect that if you choose to pursue this topic your lack of Portuguese may be more of an issue than you think. "Getting by" in one Latin-based language amongst speakers of another Latin-based language IME means that you are confined to the barest essentials of language; being able to wish someone a good day or order a beer is not the same as being able to understand a deep and complex magicoreligious system. Unless your article is going to be yet another of those "and then the chap with the funny hat on started doing things with a rattle and the other people began dancing" sorts of pieces, and I'm not really sure how many of those the world actually needs.
 
 
Feverfew
18:56 / 20.05.07
Perhaps this would help?
 
 
*
20:56 / 20.05.07
(Test failed. I suck.)

Rakker, the way to learn magic from people—and whether you're approaching this as a student/fellow-magician or as a skeptical anthropologist or as a curious outsider, you're asking to learn magic—is not to act in the way you're doing now. It leaves one with the impression that you think magic is a commodity you can buy from someone whose language and culture you don't share. That's disrespectful and makes the people who can help you disinclined to do so.

I hope you learn a lot while you're in the country. I think no matter what you find, it has the potential to be a very valuable experience for you. I envy you the chance to be there and to engage with the people you will meet.

You will benefit more from this experience if you remember that the people whose home you have come to are not there for your entertainment and edification; they have lives and desires and goals of their own. You might be asking "How can I help?" or better still "How can I keep from doing harm while I'm here?" In that way not only will people recognize your sincerity and be more likely to help you, but you will not anger the practitioners and their ancestors and Gods, and still more importantly you will leave the people and their ways of practicing no worse off when you leave.
 
 
*
20:59 / 20.05.07
(Meta-note for rakker and moderators: If the above works badly, please accept my sincere apologies and feel free to remove the lolcat as needed.)
 
 
Papess
21:11 / 20.05.07
cool.
 
 
This Sunday
21:30 / 20.05.07
I did inquire with friends from who were going to be in Brazil relatively soon, and are Camentsa from Columbia, to see if they could recommend a good reference place, someone who takes the time out for the spirituality-tourism or likes doing little press junkets to promote outside awareness of culture and practices, but was just hit with an e-mail request for (a) vouching, and (b) credentials.

If rakker makes it back soon, that may be an option (b, not a), but otherwise, rakker, I'd suggest just meeting people wherever you find yourself at, and seeing where it lands you. Unless it's a paid gig, in which, you should be hitting up Brazilian contacts or sites/boards, as suggested, and using whomever put you on the job's resources to further.
 
 
Quantum
10:50 / 21.05.07
Rakker, I hope you have fun in Brazil. But when you wrote what *are* in fact the traditions? it made me want to cry a little bit and post a link to google or wikipedia which will answer a lot of your basic questions.
I hope I don't seem mean, but I hate it when people use Barbelith as a substitute for ten seconds of research. Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil#Religion for a start.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
19:30 / 21.05.07
Well, Wikipedia and Google are not repositories of a bunch of people who claim to know something about the magics. Certainly, neither is guaranteed to be accurate, although of course neither is Barbelith. Perhaps getting one's starting information from a number of different sources at once is not a terrible idea.
 
 
Lord Switch
08:00 / 22.05.07
Hello Rakker. Try this
http://www.exu.moonfruit.com/
or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quimbanda

they have excellent info on Umbanda and Quimbanda which is meant to be Brasilian witchcraft.

As fars as I understand there are quite a few versions of Brazilian witchcraft:
Native american shamanism
native ameican shamanism mixed with catholicism
native american shamanism mixed with african religions
Catholic Witchcraft (old wives magic)

One of your best bets is to look in the yellow pages and look for pet stores and look for magickal supply shops in the same area. As a lot of these practices requite animal; sacrifice it is a good bet to stake out the places where the supplies can be found.
If you're looking at old wives magick or things with a strong catholic leaning go to catholic churches and related shops :P

I don't think you should run up to them and tell them that you are writing an article. Start talking, if you manage to get over the language barrier, if not, hire a guide.
Keep in mind that the further south you travel the more shamanic the practices will become; there are also alot of native traditions in south america that are more than willing to work with whites and you can actually undergo tranining or in some cases experience visionquests with ayahuska and simillar drugs.

Are you generally interested in magick and religion and/or is this purely an academic interest as part of your previous magickal career, or are you interested in actually doing work with and becoming part of the tradition?
If you want to be part of the tradition and you come to barbelith to ask about it I feel that you need to reconsider and perhaps experience some of the practices and hear some of the stories/beliefs firsthand. If it is just curiosity then, unlike others, I think that you should sate your curiosity and learn/ try to understand things as much as possible. You're not exploiting anything. Do report your findings to the board, as I for one would be interested in what you find out
 
 
Quantum
13:03 / 22.05.07
Wikipedia and Google are not repositories of a bunch of people who claim to know something about the magics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Occult is such a repository.

I certainly agree you should have several sources, but I don't think it's too much to ask to look at an encyclopedia entry before turning here for advice.
I think perhaps I'm being oversensitive, I have the same problem in the Lab. Please everyone ignore my curmudgeonly moaning, carry on...
 
 
rakker
21:59 / 23.05.07
Pardon late replies. Been busy. Went to Salvador after wrapping up work in Natal, by the way.

Ghadis; as to why I’m doing an article on something I know nothing about. I’m a journalist, dude. It’s what we do. I’m a curious guy, with an interest in magic. And I was asked to do this particular story by some friends who do a magazine back home in Norway, and their next theme issue is on magic. And I’m in Brazil. They pay is shit on this particular assignment, so I’m doing it basically for friendship and fun. I asked you guys because I’ve been lurking on these forums since 2001, and thought you might have a few useful tips/addresses. So that’s why.

Talks to strangers: Wow. We sure are in negative mode here, aren’t we? So far, I feel that I can communicate relatively well with everyone in Spanish. Like, I don’t know. 30% understanding with most people. 50-70% understanding with educated people/people with an ear for language. There is also a university here, wherein I presume I’ll find an English-speaker or two.

For 1 month only: Thanks for the link. I’ll try to see if I can somehow procure it here, though somehow I doubt it.

id entity: FYI; I’ve a bachelors degree in journalism, worked in a full time job as a journalist for the past two years, and quit my job to go do freelance journalism in South America this year. I’ve dabbled with magic and been very interested in the subject for four or five years, which I’ve mentioned here: http://www.barbelith.com/topic/21004, here: http://www.barbelith.com/topic/21115 and here: http://www.barbelith.com/topic/25869

One of the last sigils I launched a year or so back was; “I want to become an International Man of Mystery.” Last week, I was flown in from Santiago de Chile to cover a crime story in Natal, Brazil. Earned 2700 pounds in 7 days. Magic’s ok in my book, y’know?

Decadent: Thanks.

Quantum: Thanks man. I’m aware of Google. I’ve worked as a journalist for four years, have the education and have been active on the web since ’95. But thanks anyway.

Lord Switch: Cheers, yours is the first post I found useful. Right now, as I said above, I went to Salvador, where the African candombe-influence is pretty heavy. My idea right now is to start of at the University of Bahia, try and grab a hold of someone who knows a) the subject b) English, and start from there. As a journalist and quasi-practitioner, I’d of course love to participate in a ceremony (id entity; sure I’m a fucking tourist. Ain’t we all?). We’ll see what turns up.

Quantum: Trust me dude. I do know how fucking Google works.

Again; sorry if I caused any offence. Just thought you guys might be knowledgeable dudes willing to help, y’know?
 
 
Quantum
22:17 / 23.05.07
“I want to become an International Man of Mystery.” Last week, I was flown in from Santiago de Chile to cover a crime story in Natal, Brazil. Earned 2700 pounds in 7 days

That's pretty fucking cool.

Apologies for my curmudgeonly demeanour as I say, your initial posting was sparse and I like to encourage people to give to the Temple as well as use it as a resource. My bad.
 
 
Seth
23:03 / 23.05.07
Thanks for the background rakker. That's all good context, but bear in mind that you've only just told us that stuff. There's no way any of us could have known it in advance, and so the responses you've received are pretty understandable.

If want to make requests in future you'll probably get better quality information/responses if you give us a more detailed, more complete pitch. That way you're less likely to receive mystified/fun pokey/teaching you to suck eggs answers.
 
 
Seth
23:12 / 23.05.07
One last. There certainly are knowledgeable and friendly dudes here who are willing to help, but it's probably the kind of place where people will want as much information as possible before they know where and how best to begin.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
23:12 / 23.05.07
Wow. We sure are in negative mode here, aren’t we?

Be fair. I only had what you wrote to go on, which was pretty scanty. Now you've filled us in with some of that cruical background info the project looks a bit more reasonable, but I was ill when we did mindreading.
 
 
rakker
23:53 / 23.05.07
Awright. No hard feelings.

Now that all that's out of the way;

Any of y'all got any good clues/sources/references/background material/names/addresses with which I could start?

Love, hugs'n kisses

r.
 
 
rakker
23:56 / 23.05.07
And if you don't want to post them out here for all to see, my email is ole.peder.giaever [] gmail.com

Cell: +4795743142
 
 
Quantum
00:05 / 24.05.07
You might want to think twice before posting your phone number- I'm sure it would be fine but I'd recommend PMing to people if they ask rather than posting it openly. Anyone with internet access can read this, after all.

There are Brazilian posters here (Dead Megatron springs to mind) but I don't know how many, or how many read the Temple, or how much they know about indigenous practice. I'd be interested to hear more about what you find out on your escapades.
 
 
rakker
00:13 / 24.05.07
It's on the web anyhoo. If it turns out to be a nuisance (or however you spell it), I'll just switch phones. Zournalizms a very public profession. Look; here is I: olepeder.wordpress.com
 
 
rakker
23:14 / 25.05.07
I just came back from a Quimbanda ceremony on a highway. Sacrifice to the god Exu (Legba-like opener of gates, ruler of streets, crossings and cemetaries) in order to strengthen a curse against a restaurant-owner, ordered by his estranged spouse. Here are some pictures: http://picasaweb.google.no/ole.peder.giaever/Quimbanda?authkey=ISDZq9QoMp8

They’re in the reverse order I’m afraid. The reason there are so many similar shots is I want to give my friends a few to choose from. I’m the white dweeb getting cleansed before the ceremony.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:28 / 25.05.07
Oh dear.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
23:35 / 25.05.07
Ecch. dude, a report of a cursing would be less nasty if a context were given. Notice I say "less" instead of "not".
 
 
This Sunday
23:41 / 25.05.07
What sort of article is this (to be)? I know it's bugging other folks, I know I'm not the only one who might be jumping the gun a bit here, but seriously. Is this a travel piece, a look at the funny foreign folks piece, a lifestyle ethnographic day-in-the-times-of story?
 
 
rakker
23:47 / 25.05.07
I was asked to do a story on brazilian magical traditions. This is, from what I've gathered so far, one of them. There is still research left to do. Seems that Quimbanda is an outcrop of the larger Candomblé-tradition. Candomblé is, from what I've learned so far, religious traditions brought over from Africa by the slaves, and further developed on this continent. Quimbanda was described to me today by a professor at the local university as concerning itself for a large part with "darker stuff", but also healing and warding. The man I met said that he would do curses, for a fee, and also wardings. Evidently, it's relatively hush-hush, some of it.

Me? I'm very interested in people and cultures in general. And eager to learn and experience as much as possible about the way people live, all around the world. I was sort of amazed that we were actually standing there, slaughtering a hen, in the middle of the road with cars zooming by. I just want to understand. Or at least try to. Y'know?
 
  
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