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Troll-whispering

 
  

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Happy Dave Has Left
14:40 / 15.05.07
Really good article on 'troll-whispering' that I thought readers of the Policy might appreciate. I particularly liked the reference to disemvowelling.
 
 
Papess
15:39 / 15.05.07
7's, very cool article! The "disemvowelling" is very interesting technique. I really like the "Don't let assholes rent space in your head."

If only they did pay rent!
 
 
grant
16:11 / 15.05.07
I'm not sure why this is, but I suspect that it's because there's something fundamentally unfriendly about a roundtable where the participants are explicitly asked to participate in active, public, quantitative rating of one's peers. Like one of those experimental 1970s communes where everyone has to tell everyone else the absolute truth all the time ("Your laugh irritates me," "You have a fat rear end that I find unappealing"), this does a good job of getting all the cards on the table, but is less successful at inspiring an atmosphere of chumminess.

Wise Mr. Doctorow.

I want disemvowelling software.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
17:12 / 15.05.07
Disemvowelling sounds like pure genius! I mean I know getting a software add-on for the Barb is a nonstarter, but cut'n'paste the offending text into a WP package, do a find and replace on all the vowels, leave a note saying "this post disemvowelled by mods" and Bob's your uncle...

Canwecanwecanwe?
 
 
electric monk
19:29 / 15.05.07
Thanks for sharing that, 7's! I love the disemvowelling idea. Add my voice to the 'yea's' on that one.
 
 
Happy Dave Has Left
20:17 / 15.05.07
I've just realised, in a weird moment of interweb circularity, we had a 'vowel-less thread' a while back that got linked to by BoingBoing, which of course Cory Doctorow contributes to, and in that post he mentions disemvowelling.

Of course, BoingBoing also linked to the original question asking where do trolls come from?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:43 / 15.05.07
You know, I occasionally feel as though Barbelith is airlocked from the rest of the intarweb but of course it isn't. How very circuitous.

We could always intentionally post without vowels in response to trollish individuals...imagine one of Haus's prolonged, dissecting response posts further slowed to infinitesmal speed by the rmvl f vwls.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:03 / 15.05.07
Either that or we could revise offending posts so that they're all written in Kitteh.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:16 / 15.05.07
Either that or we could revise offending posts so that they're all written in Kitteh.

WANT!!!
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:29 / 15.05.07
On actual pictures of cute animals.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:52 / 15.05.07
NOOOO!!! THEY IS STEALIN MA FREEDUM OF SPEACH!!!
 
 
Happy Dave Has Left
23:01 / 15.05.07
INVISIBLE SENSAHUMA
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
23:31 / 15.05.07
IM ON YR BORD SHATRIN YR REEALATY TUNELZ
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:37 / 15.05.07
IS IT CAN BE BANNINATIN TIEM NOW PLZ?
 
 
All Acting Regiment
15:52 / 16.05.07
DO NOT LIKE DWORKINNZ!!!
 
 
Ticker
19:40 / 16.05.07
KITTEH FILTER ENGANGED!

 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:45 / 16.05.07
WHAT HAZ AH DONE?!

i is braek yr Policy thred. Sorrys. Goin to put 1 in Convo insted. It can be ontopics teim now.
 
 
This Sunday
19:51 / 16.05.07
If that picture could just be modded into really atrociously trollish posts. It would have a calming effect to anyone else in the thread and prevent some immediate overload response-posting, it's not nearly as threatening as some written commentary could be, and if they can't at least reevaluate their material after seeing it placed there there may be no hope for them. Or their soul.

With modding to kitteh as a second-strike backup response.

Kitteh with no vowels? That's for after they're banned but some of their posts are worth keeping around for context or something.

I'd almost volunteer to be the one to retype the necessary posts that way.
 
 
Ticker
19:53 / 16.05.07
So how would we use Kitteh or disemvowelling in case of troll? Would the mods just have at it or would we still be knee deep in discussions about 'when' to push the K/d button?
 
 
Ticker
19:58 / 16.05.07
DN, so are you thinking anyone who spotted a conflict with an inherent trollish bent could smackdown a lol image? Then if it wasn't heeded (or if it's just heinous) a mod could Kitteh-fy the post?

Or do we need an official containment image to signal 'we don't approve of this sort of thing here'. I think in the article linked they discuss the disemvowelling also serves as a visual signal to the readers to indicate disapproval.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:03 / 16.05.07
I think we then get into the thing of "who gets to decide if a post is kittehfiable/disemvowellable." I'd argue that distributed moderation could take care of that. Then there are those who find vowellessness or internet pidgin more irritating than the original, which is a fair enough response. I'd argue that there is precedent for this sort of thing in the form of the Rhyming Summary Project.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:08 / 16.05.07
That probably would have worked better when moderators were not being added essentially at random...
 
 
This Sunday
20:08 / 16.05.07
I'd like to presume it could be noted in the FAQ as a notification, but then, how many people look much at the FAQ unless they're looking for a specific item/answer?

So it'd probably have to be tagged with some sort of text. Unless I really am not the only one who reads whole chunks of the Barbe-FAQ just to see what I don't know about the board or what's expected. If it is common, it could just be noted there and left alone when planted in-thread/post as needed.

I do think it would go a long way to disarming potential furious troll/offense-spawning posting, on all parts, though. Primarily because it's distracting and cute - while carrying a secondary meaning of warning.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:11 / 16.05.07
That probably would have worked better when moderators were not being added essentially at random...

Point.
 
 
Ticker
11:30 / 17.05.07
Ok so using TTS teh awesome Kitteh Filter thread in convo as an example, what do we think of semi mocking someone via a kitteh version of their statement if we perceive them as being trollish?

I think MWS rawked it pretty hard with these.

If for example TTS had posted a Kitteh Filter image for me during the exchange ref'd in those images...



ALERT! U IZ OPRESSIN' MA PEOPLES!

It would have (I think... who knows) broken my narrow focus and made me rethink what was up.But then me being me I wouldn't be offended by a lolcat even if it was saying my words.

Does the Kitteh Filter run the risk of actually offending people we don't want to offend?
 
 
Evil Scientist
12:05 / 17.05.07
Disemvoweling sounds more effective to me. I'd only heard about Kitteh-speak today and, as funny as I'm finding it, seeing a trollish post made up to look cutsey might be sending the wrong signals in some cases (does anyone really want to break down some idiot's Elders of Z rant into Kitteh? An extreme example perhaps).

I guess it's an effective ridicule option.

Another possibility is that trollish posts can be hidden with that fancy Spoilers feature, and a warning put in place to advise of offensive content. That might at least put a cover over it.
 
 
Happy Dave Has Left
12:39 / 17.05.07
I'm seeing a scale of troll-whispering here.

1. Mildly off-colour remark with what seems like ill-thought out assumptions behind it = KITTEH!

2. Potentially offensive content, but perhaps posted rashly (this troll might not actually be a troll, but someone posting drunk, or experiencing something in real life that's affecting their judgement) = Spoiler tag

3. Truly obnoxious, repetitive and unrepentant trolling = disemvowelling, followed by post deletions, followed by teh bannination.
 
 
Ticker
13:18 / 17.05.07
Well I'm a bit hesitant about disemvowelling someone's stuff rather than posting up a parallel kitteh sign because who gets to decide when to edit another's post is sort of up in the air.

also for the folks with reading disabilities do we have a cut n paste revoweller?

I understand the point of disemvowelling is to remove the text a step to gain some distance and to signify problematic text but I'm concerned with it shutting people out. Is there away to present it without unduly blocking legit peeps?
 
 
Happy Dave Has Left
13:34 / 17.05.07
Maybe a disemvowelled post, with the original behind a spoiler tag?

That way, people who want to avoid feeding trolls can skip on past and ignore.
 
 
Ticker
14:13 / 17.05.07
So I have to ask, do the mods on the sites using disemvowelling have more free reign to step in then they do on this board?

Do they just spot a problematic post, disemvowel it, and move on or is there a discussion first?

I suspect part of the point is a swift action to overt other people reacting to the post and so feeding the troll?
 
 
Ticker
14:29 / 17.05.07
sexy simple alternative unix option

Already available to unix/linux/mac people!
 
 
grant
16:36 / 17.05.07
Well I'm a bit hesitant about disemvowelling someone's stuff rather than posting up a parallel kitteh sign because who gets to decide when to edit another's post is sort of up in the air.

You do realize there's a "delete post" option under the "edit post" tag that the moderators see, don't you?

Who gets to decide would be a consensus of interested members of the board, as represented by the distributed mods, in theory. In practice, it'd be some group of three or four mods who agreed to do it, I think (unless Tom could add it to code, etc., future, etc., not not).
 
 
Ticker
17:32 / 17.05.07
Yeah but how often do mods delete a post quickly when it's not the poster themselves requesting it?

I guess I'm thinking anyone could throw a kitteh alert up without editing anyone else's posts while the mods decide on disemvowelling?
 
 
grant
19:47 / 17.05.07
Yeah, content-based deleting almost never happens, in part (I think) because it erases a permanent record of a poster's postings. It seems like disemvowelling would be far less "risky" in that way -- it's still comprehensible, still easy enough to reference, and still in the necessary context. It's just... not stabbing people in the face.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:37 / 17.05.07
So, just so I'm clear - we want to start editing the content of people's posts based on having decided that their contributions would be less offensive without vowels? That has some interesting consequences. Traditionally, we have had a farily powerful prohibition on altering other people's text, preferring to delete rather than amend. One reason for this is that altering people's text is easy to do - it takes only one vote in favour of a moderation action to alter text.

Right now, I'm not sure where we are going with this.
 
  

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