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CRYSTAL CASTLES

 
  

Page: 12(3)

 
 
Quantum
14:17 / 16.05.07
Ask me what I'm wearing...
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
14:27 / 16.05.07
does it have a track ball?
 
 
Quantum
14:30 / 16.05.07
It's got a bell on the end... well, a bel in the middle anyway. It's wash day.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
14:32 / 16.05.07
A choker?
 
 
This Sunday
14:36 / 16.05.07
Cat collar, surely.

(Anyone else have the urge to draft the Ballad of One-Ball Tom, the Hard Travellin', Easy-Goin' Cat? Extra points for She-Ra and getting a drunk Bear in there.)
 
 
Papess
14:40 / 16.05.07
Nina: Objectified?

I certainly know what being objectified is. I just didn't think that stating how beautiful I think someone's appearance is, is actually objectifying them. However, like I said, I have experienced objectification at an acute level, and I may not have proper boundaries in place and some confused perceptions about sexual objectification. I am trying to work on this, as I don't want to be the same misogynistic, sexist idiot that I have been subjected to.

I deeply and sincerely apologize if I being was offensive.
 
 
Quantum
14:47 / 16.05.07
She-Bear... She-Bra... Tom was a'wanderin' near and far, came across a Bear in a She-Bear-Bra...
No, it's not coming.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:05 / 16.05.07
Leaving aside the tomfoolery for a sec... I think the distinction between "paying a compliment to" and "making a comment about" is a very useful one - I hadn't really thought about it in those terms before.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
15:20 / 16.05.07
Interesting Haus. I've just spent a good chunk of what should be work-hours trying to get my head around what was wrong with me saying "she is gorgeous". On the one hand, one could easily say, as did Anna, that that's objectifying her, as I thereby reduce her to what I consider to be good looks. On the other hand (notwithstanding my garbling of the English language), when I said in reply to Anna that I generally have problems with being told that I'm wrong to compliment people on their looks cuz that constitutes objectifying, I can't help but think that that bloats the meaning of objectification beyond the point where it's usable. By the same token, would I also be objectifying if I commented that a female-id Barbebod was showing great empathy, given that emotional language is traditionally seen to be the domain of women? Or am I completely off the rails? Could be.... I'll go have a smoke.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
15:36 / 16.05.07
Reckon there's probably a difference, as well as between paying a compliment to and commenting on, between saying "X is hott hurr hurr" etc and saying "X is making me feel attracted to them". The latter acknowledges the power the fancied has over the fancier...
 
 
Seth
15:37 / 16.05.07
The picture made your hand fly winkleward.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
15:53 / 16.05.07
WHAT IS WINKLE PLZ? KITTEH IS INNOCENT

YOU ARE MEANY

^.....^
{0}_{0}
 
 
---
15:55 / 16.05.07
Best convo thrad in ages.
 
 
Seth
16:00 / 16.05.07
These thrads are made for wankiepix.

It's like Weetabix only...

Oh GOD.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:00 / 16.05.07
There's something for everyone.

On the other hand (notwithstanding my garbling of the English language), when I said in reply to Anna that I generally have problems with being told that I'm wrong to compliment people on their looks cuz that constitutes objectifying, I can't help but think that that bloats the meaning of objectification beyond the point where it's usable.

Possibly, but I think your use of "compliment" again shows that you have missed at least some of the point of what Annina said. You are not complimenting the lead singer on her looks - you are making a comment about the lead singer's looks. Different things.
 
 
This Sunday
16:02 / 16.05.07
Allecto, I think I'd read those in complete reverse-sentiment. Claiming someone's 'making' one attracted to them would be presuming their consciously making an effort for/towards one. That they're hot, would seem to be more honest of an opinion, since they're clearly, especially if you're talking about someone online based only on a photograph or tenuous familiarity, not 'making' you do anything, and the read is purely personal/internally-manifest.

Unless that's what you meant and I'm misreading.

I do think this is a question that could be moved over to another forum for some real dissection, though. Headshop or Art/Fashion, which doesn't get enough traffic.

I don't know how it is elsewhere, particularly (although I did get myself into trouble a couple times in Jordan for it), but in the States there seems to be a significant run of paranoia about up-front compliments. I compliment/comment on people's hair, shoes, general air of good-lookingness all the time, often without thinking it through very well, just because something strikes me, and a fair amount of the time, the complimented is pretty sure I'm angling somewhere.

We could get mileage and great use out of such a thread, I'd think. Discussion on the whats and whens and hows of compliments/comments and objectification. People fishing for comments, and when they get them, how there's bound to be someone on-hand to take offense. The whole 'all women are little sister' mentality. The 'Can't you take a compliment? I just said you've got fine titties.' mentality. And so on through dishonest backpeddling and/or earnest statements of appreciation.
 
 
Glenn Close But No Cigar
16:05 / 16.05.07
I've just spent a good chunk of what should be work-hours trying to get my head around what was wrong with me saying "she is gorgeous".

I think the clue's in the subjective personal pronoun. As any fule kno, you should have said "ze is gorgeous"...
 
 
Kiltartan Cross
16:06 / 16.05.07
I always thought crystal castles was an old classic shitty video game where you're a teddy bear in a wizard's hat. with a trackball.

If it's any comfort, that was my first thought. They don't make 'em like they used to.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:26 / 16.05.07
People fish for comments

It seems almost cruel to ask you to tie your comments in to the topic under discussion, DD, but could you explain how exactly the lead singer of the Crystal Castles has fished for comments in this thread?
 
 
---
16:29 / 16.05.07
Ahh! I just realised who Tony Wilson is. You were stood talking to Tony Wilson about Factory Records, that's unreal. I'd have been asking about Shaun Ryder from the off.
 
 
This Sunday
16:32 / 16.05.07
how exactly the lead singer of the Crystal Castles has fished for comments in this thread?

I don't think anyone did. But I do think someone's made the case for it with... "X is making me feel attracted to them" and other posters presumably genuine confusion about when it's appropriate or not to make commentary of such sort as "She's hot" or "You're hot." Yes? In other words, things to be discussed in another more specific 'what compliments/comments are appropriate and when' type thread. Clearer?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:45 / 16.05.07
Well, clearer, except that if one starts off with both "take offense" and "dishonest" as keywords for reactions that are not one's own, such a thread is unlikely to get very far without descending beneath the ice.

If we're talking about a simple help and advice thread - "when is it appropriate for me to tell people they are hot?" - then that is a somewhat awe-inspiring concept, but could at the very least prompt some fine one-liners.
 
 
This Sunday
17:06 / 16.05.07
such a thread is unlikely to get very far without descending beneath the ice.

Hence, me not starting it. Someone who can at least pretend to be even-handed should, if anyone does. I'm not bound to presume my reflex actions or tastes in social behaviour are held by everyone else or should be universalized. If no one does start it, I'll assume the interest isn't there, and the questions that are arising from this simple thread in Convers are being dealt with elsewhere.

And to further clarify, I did not mean at all to suggest anyone here is treating all or anyone in that demean/protect mode of little sister when concerning real living adult women, but that it is demonstrated often enough in real flesh-bound life that (a) I'm willing to take a pretty opinionated stand that it's often offensive to behold and (b) am assuming it engenders a discomfort in other people, as well, and perhaps contributes to uncertainty/paranoia about when/what is the 'your/they're hot' talk is appropriate.

(I should be drunk to post this. It'd be a fab excuse.)

To move things back to where they were... the gal in question reminds me quite a bit of someone I knew ages ago and had been getting significantly sentimental about lately. I'm going to hijack the image/scene, then, and make up happy thoughts in my head that she's out making rocking music and online debates being waged on whether it's appropriate to call her hot.

And does saying 'Crystal Castles' not weird things to anyone else's mouth?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
18:57 / 16.05.07
WHAT IS WINKLE PLZ? KITTEH IS INNOCENT

Winkle n. (wĭng'kəl): Teh harbl.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
09:40 / 17.05.07
I deeply and sincerely apologize if I being was offensive.

I didn't really think you were being offensive. I don't fundamentally have a problem with anything that's been said in this thread, I was just trying to level out what was happening because I felt that what you, Nolte and Allecto said could equate as comments and that no one comment was better or worse then the other. The same amount of objectification was happening with all of you, that's not specifically offensive, it's simply something that people do. I think that when any of us jump on something that's sexist we need to regard it in a very broad context rather than reacting to one statement.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
10:15 / 17.05.07
That's very kind and helpful, Anna. But I still want to apologise, if belatedly, because I'm slowly and (I hope) surely coming to realise just how much of a male-first, heteronormative, straight-privileged mind-set I'm coming from. Hell, I only became properly aware of those two last terms in the last month or so. If ya want more proof, or just something to snicker at, go to the last page of the Convo pics thread and witness my utter stupidity in response to Mono Chrome's weird and wonderful photo.

Secondly, it's taking me time to adjust to the basics of Barbelith, and perhaps internet board communication in general, as evident in my inability to distinguish between a compliment to a person in my presence and making a commment about that person's image as presented in this thread. Not to mention how the latter did, in some measure, constitute sexist objectification. I promise to exercise more caution in the future and I wholeheartedly appreciate any and all past and future comments, complaints or commiserations. Thanks, peeps, for giving me some great and most needed feedback.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
10:25 / 17.05.07
I was objectified once. Was made to dress as a standard lamp for a fancy dress party. Have to say I didn't like it. Legs were taped together at the shin and thigh, had to shuffle around gingerly to keep from falling over. Couldn't bend at the knees properly, either. Nightmare.

And when we say 'feel like a woman', do we mean in a Shania Twain kind of way, or a Melissa Etheridge kind of way?
 
 
imaginary mice
11:40 / 17.05.07
Er… would it help if I objectified Gerard Way to balance this thread? Easily done. Gorgeous guy, thanks Te.
 
 
Papess
13:24 / 17.05.07
Anna, I am in agreement with Nolte. I do appreciate your even-handedness, but I am also glad you called attention to it.

I would like to add, that although it triggered alot for me, that is fine, I was quite primed for it, thankfully, and it help me to formulate my questions regarding self-hatred and misogyny, in Feminism 101 thread.

So, I am more grateful than offended, Anna. No worries!
 
 
*
16:43 / 17.05.07
In brief—sorry I was not even-handed. I had wanted to say how I felt about the comment (that it made me uncomfortable) and invite an explanation; it wasn't my intention to make a general statement about sexism in the thread or I would have done so more explicitly and more generally.

I don't necessarily have a reference for everyone's relationships here, and that gives me a certain tendency to fragment things and only pick up on one or two things at a time; I'll try to notice when that's happening.

I appreciate your explanation, Allecto; thanks.

Also sorry my engagement with the thread has been kind of drive-by; I've been busy with work this week and it's been hard to keep up.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
17:06 / 17.05.07
This thread clearly isn't about music, then - but Allecto, why not start a new thread about "the Castles" in the Music Forum? I refuse to give in to the fact that most people here would rather read a Geoff Johns comic or wank into a sock than listen to exciting new music...
 
 
grant
17:29 / 17.05.07
I refuse to give in to the fact that most people here would rather read a Geoff Johns comic or wank into a sock than listen to exciting new music...

Do we have to give up the former to do the latter?
 
 
All Acting Regiment
18:03 / 17.05.07
I will start a new CC thread in music, and we might have it involve other related stuff as well (as I think they probably function by reference to some sort of micro-scene thing, although I don't know).

W/regards to:

Allecto, I think I'd read those in complete reverse-sentiment. Claiming someone's 'making' one attracted to them would be presuming their consciously making an effort for/towards one. That they're hot, would seem to be more honest of an opinion, since they're clearly, especially if you're talking about someone online based only on a photograph or tenuous familiarity, not 'making' you do anything, and the read is purely personal/internally-manifest.

Ahh, but saying "they're hot" implies objectivity/exercises power over them by putting them in the hot box without their permission.

Oh wow.

Let's just sort this out once and for all:

"She's hot!"
"You're hot!"
"I think (in my opinion) she is hot!"
"I think (in my opinion) you are hot!"

Pick one or suggest a better one. I'll be over in R&M makin my threadz.
 
  

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