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Wii

 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:53 / 03.05.07
Okay Brubaleth. This thing's been out for... what, six months or something? And yet nobody's started a thread about it. I mean, we've got the one where we were all wondering how it was going to work and picking up on bits of pre-release news as and when, but aside from that - and the Zelda: TP thread - nobody's had anything interesting to say about the actuality of the machine and its controllers? No thoughts on how motion-sensitive control with the full three axes of movement affects the experience of play, or the connection between player and gameworld? Nothing about the potential for new types of gameplay? No impressions on any of the current line-up beyond Zelda?

I've had one for exactly a week now and, having become more familiar with the controllers, am starting to think about what they could mean for videogames, as well as beginning to appreciate the games that I currently own for it as games in their own right, instead of experiments in or introductions to the revolution.

But I'll let you go first.
 
 
Thorn Davis
08:00 / 04.05.07
I've been enjoying the new dimension it adds to the possibilities of sadism in The Godfather. People have often talked about the catharsis offered by violent games, and being able to physically act out battering someone with a baseball bat obviously adds to that. Sadly, it's the only interesting thing about the game.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
09:48 / 04.05.07
I'll be here very soon, I promise! All I know is that I just ordered Spider-Man 3 and I'm excited. I didn't read any reviews (there aren't any, apparently) but saw a few people on forums just raving about how fun the webslinging is with the Wii controllers. That felt like it was enough.

I'm sure it will be as flawed as all the other games, but the swinging was fun enough there too...
 
 
Lama glama
18:23 / 04.05.07
Spider-Man 2 was an incredibly enjoyable game once you get past the initial winning it and unlocking the best web speed part. I never knew the sequel was coming to Wii, so now I can't wait to get my hands on it.

I haven't touched my Wii in ages (hee). It's sitting there in the corner of the room, looking wistfully at me with that one narrow blue eye. Zelda was spectacular, Wii sports in fun once in a blue moon, but beyond that there's nothing remotely piquing my interest on the console at the moment.

Already the game shop I frequent has severely limited the space for Wii releases and peripherals, so I fear that the coverage and popularity of the console might go the way of the Gamecube did in Ireland, at least.

They need to get the new Smash Bros out, the new Mario and some other fantastic releases out before it slips into irrelevance.

I hear that some form of Final Fantasy is due out on the console eventually, which is definitely good news. I loves me some Final Fantasy, but have no intention of forking out for a PS3 for as long as it costs as much as a small cottage in the countryside.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
19:24 / 04.05.07
I really enjoyed Zelda.

That is about all I can say, honestly, because I haven't played much else on the thing. Wii Sports was fun but got old rather quickly. The Wii Play games only got played once, right after I opened the thing. I picked up the SSX snowboarding game which is fun if you don't care about doing any of the good tricks, because the controls are terrible.

Mario Galaxy looks to be entertaining. Paper Mario is cute, but I haven't picked it up yet. Smash Bros. and Metroid need to get here quick, because the little white box is sitting next to my TV these days doing very little.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
09:52 / 05.05.07
I mentioned Spider-Man 3 because it's probably the first "traditional" game I'm likely to play on my Wii, and I'm interested to see how it feels (reviews are very mixed, but I'm certain from them that I'll get enough joy from just swinging about that I can overlook the flaws which by all accounts are basically the same as the previous ones). Also it was £24.99 from the Gamestation website, and that's just about the type of price I'm willing to pay for new games.

The only other game I've tried that could fit in that category (I played Zelda on the cube) is Tiger Woods - which seemed to be massively popular on the Wii and I can see why. I never had interest in a golf game before - but now? Oh yes. I actually bought it for my Dad's 60th birthday. He really enjoys it, he's not normally interested in computer games. There was a lot of talk about how the Wii would simplify controls and be accessible for people. Wii Sports, Wario. Yeah, that's true in those cases. It was always true of Wario though, wasn't it? No, I think the genius in the Wii lies in just getting these people who wouldn't normally pick a controller up to feel like they want to hold the remote. It's got them willing to try.

People will put up with a lot of finickicy (although this is a crticism I'd levlel at EA, lauded as they are for presentation, all their menus and everything is fiddly and not overloaded with detail, it's hard enough to work out what everything does without them obscuring it in such ways) controls and the like just for the chance to swing the remote like a golf club (in a more realistic and complex setting than in Wii Sports). They don't mind learning it then, it's ok. I am certain my Dad wouldn't have been interested at all to play the same game on a regular controller. In fact, often for people more familiar with "regular" controls it feels overcomplicated in comparison to what came before. You have to get used to it.

I think it'll be interesting to see how both developers and retailers react to, basically, the Wii being the most popular console now. It is, isn't it? In sales terms, at least. Most of the shops I frequent have huge Playstation 3 spaces and treat the Wii as if they expected it to perform exactly like the Cube. Or as if it's treated like an entirely separate novelty compared to the proper consoles. I've seen some things posit that only PS3 and 360 are true next generation consoles, but I guess that depends which way you want to go, doesn't it? And as for developers, I think it all boils down to how seduced they are by the need to "cutting edge" graphics as opposed to thinking up unique and interesting things to do with the Wiimote. I think there could be a big split in the games industry, in some way. Lead format? It's all fucked. I have a feeling a lot of developers can't help but be lured down the graphics highway.

It seems sad to me, because I don't really care about graphics in those ways. I mean, theoretically every Wii game could look as good as Wind Waker or Resident Evil 4. but they don't, simply because most developers don't have as good programmers or artists. If the art is good, the game looks good, I can't really concern myself with how sharp things look because so often the base art and design of things is so broken and poor that it doesn't matter what resolution it's in, and regardless of console.

I think Nintendo were very right to release the Wii when they did. It's put them in a very attractive position, and not just in terms of revenue. I think the good/great games should be coming at just about the right time, in terms of the length of time after launch and the availability of the console. It's not a new thing. Although, I've had a perfectly acceptable amount of play from my new console - from both it's own games and a lot more Virtual Console games that I really intended.

And I think re-releasing things like Resident Evil 4 is a great thing to do as well. This is the new mainstream. It seems to annoy gamers the most. But the work is there, the work is good. If I was sitting on a critically acclaimed work (which perhaps underperformed compared to expectation) then I'd sure as fuck release it again, to a new and wider audience. It's good for the Wii, gives a good account of itself, it's good for the gamer, as far as I'm concerned. And a budget price and all. What's not to like?

I think it will be very interesting to see how things go, because it's increasingly hard to predict. And I'm definitely hopeful of what's to come on the Wii...

Now, where's Paper Mario? Oh, Nintendopaws.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
09:56 / 05.05.07
Ahem, that post was a bit more sprawling than intended.

I should add, Wii Sports bowling has been a big hit in my house as well. I'm still aiming for a perfect score! It's a lot of fun working out the spin and subtelties you can put in the control. I played Wii Sports almost every day for months, for about 15 minutes or so, which is a quick burst style of gaming Nintendo seem very fond of at the moment. Although there's more than that an all.

It's an interesting itme for games, and I really hope some of these promising things are delivered and built upon...
 
 
netbanshee
16:29 / 05.05.07
It seems that the lack of a proper Wii thread really comes down to reasons: console availability (which electronics giant do I have to be at at the crack of dawn on Sunday?) and the slump in titles between launch and what the fall will bring.

I got some hands-on with my friends console about 2 weeks after launch and it was quite a bit of fun. As Suedey had mentioned, Wii Bowling was a big hit. It got folks together in the same space to play games, something I don't see as much as I used to. Beyond those experiences and some VC games that we downloaded and played, I haven't been compelled to jump through hoops to get my hands on my own though.

The way I see it, I'll drop cash on a Wii as soon as Super Smash Bros Brawl and Nights show up. By then, the platform will be more established, I'll have enough games to choose from (gotta get the new Paper Mario too) and I might actually be able to buy a Wii without too much difficulty.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:55 / 06.05.07
I'm not sure. Maybe it's because actually having my hands on the thing is still a new experience to me, but I love it. One of the things I noticed about the 360 was that I didn't get the rush that a new piece of gaming hardware normally gives me - when I'm most excited about having a new bit of kit, I'll find myself picking up every game going, just to see what they're like, and that never happened with the 360. It is happening with this, though.

And that's mainly because of the controller. I'd probably not even consider buying something like Excite Truck if it came out on any other console, but each time I see it sitting on a shop shelf, I have to fight the urge. I want to know how it feels to play a game like that with this controller, find out how well the developers have used it.

Even divorcing myself from that thrill of the new, I'm enjoying the games a great deal.

Elijah: The Wii Play games only got played once, right after I opened the thing.

Oh, I quite like Wii Play. It gets better the more time you put into it. The pool game is wonderful and easily the one of the bunch that makes best use of the controller - it took me a couple of attempts to get to grips with it, but once I did the sensation of actually cueing was entirely natural. Alright, so games that use the forwards/bakwards motion are always going to suffer a little, because it's impossible to marry your real world depth perception to an image on a flat screen, but that's unlikely to ever mean anything worse than having to spend a few minutes acclimatising to the way your motion is translated in-game each time you boot up.

The rest of the content in Wii play is super-lightweight, of course, but that's part of its appeal. I will keep returning to it in order to try and get all platinums. It's a missed opportunity in an awful lot of areas, but it's a nice thing to have for when I find myself tired or bored - brain-free gaming.

I picked up the SSX snowboarding game which is fun if you don't care about doing any of the good tricks, because the controls are terrible.

I couldn't get the hang of the controls at all for over a week, but they just clicked a couple of hours ago and I found myself hammering the high scores. A lot of the ubertricks are impossibly difficult to pull off consistently - gesture recognition is always going to be hit and miss, so making those gestures really complex was a stupid move on EA's part - but there are enough that have more simple patterns (the heart, the loop) that you can ignore the others and not have your game suffer as a result.

It's almost the exact opposite of the more common Wii strategy, though - possibly a more complex set of controls than you'd ever be faced with on a regular controller. That makes for a real mountain of difficulty as you get used to the controls, but once you climb it the game comes together as something dead nice. I can see myself spending a lot of time with it, once I become totally comfortable with how to play it - the basic directional control (tilting the nunchuk left and right to turn, using the stick on top of it to make those turns tighter) feels lovely, it's got a superb soundtrack (a first for a recent EA game) and it's just fun. Once you know how to play it and if you can be bothered putting up with some serious annoyance while you don't, that is.

Suedey: Most of the shops I frequent have huge Playstation 3 spaces and treat the Wii as if they expected it to perform exactly like the Cube. Or as if it's treated like an entirely separate novelty compared to the proper consoles.

It's a difficult one for the shops, I suspect. I'd imagine that none of them really trust Nintendo Europe - this branch of the company gets by more on good will and lucky accidents than anybody else in the industry, and always has done - but there's also the fact that it's probably not worth shops putting big Wii displays out or giving over a large amount of shelf space to the console's games, because it's not like they're stocking the console for people to buy anyway. Why give space over to games for a console that you can't buy because of stock shortages?

I read a lot about how the machine's suffering from a drought of decent software, how there's been Zelda then nothing else, but that's doing a disservice to some smart little games. Super Monkey Ball is still great, even if I am a bit disappointed by the limitations that Sega have put on the range of the remote (the game only registers tilt up to a certain, fairly shallow degree, which makes things a bit more difficult than they need to be). The sensitivity and responsiveness of the controls (outside of that one issue) are amazing - I was totally expecting a large amount of delay between me tilting the remote and the game responding, but it's as good as instant.

Kororinpa (renamed something boring and literal like 'Marble Maze Meh' in the US - good old US gaming marketing people and their need to be videogaming world's Cuprinol) treads similar ground, but arguably does the same thing much better - it feels like a real world ball/maze game, with a physical sense of reality that SMB doesn't have (although, to be fair, SMB has never particularly aimed for reality in its physics or gravity). It also uses more of the remote's range, asking you to turn it at 90 degree angles to spin the maze around and roll the marble over what were previously walls, then back around again.

I just picked up Elebits (or Eledees as it's been renamed in Europe - licensing issues again?) and that's a game that really does show how much potential there is in the the remote and nunchuk. It's like an entire game built around Half-Life 2's gravity gun, only with you actually holding the gravity gun IRL. Lift things up with the remote, pull them towards you or push them away from you *by pulling them towards you or pushing them away from you*, chuck things around, open doors and drawers by actually opening them - it's brilliant, brilliant, brilliant stuff. And all this while using the stick on the top of the nunchuk to walk around the environments as and how you please. If anything, this is the game that finally takes the 3D first-person viewpoint and turns it into honest-to-god virtual reality - all that's missing is the physical sensation.

Got a wonderful art style to it, too - story told in painted bits of work that look like the cutscenes from Christmas NiGHTS, and has an appealing ugliness to the Elebits/Eledees themselves.

The other thing that the machine really has going for it - as long as you're not using a European one - is the Virtual Console. I'm limited to the PC Engine/TurboGrafx games now, because I'll be fucked if I'm giving Nintedo Europe another penny for dodgy, half-arsed 50Hz versions of classic games when there's no reason why they couldn't have had 60Hz options in them (this would have taken about three minutes to sort out for each game, if that), but the range of titles available andf the promise of more to come should mean it's an invaluable service to people with NTSC versions of the console and, again, makes a mockery of the complaints about a lack of software, imo.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:41 / 07.05.07
Oh, and Wii console numbers - might as well use this thread to post them, too. Mine's 7736 7498 5481 8146.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
12:14 / 08.05.07
And here be mine!

2405 6211 2822 4499

I'll be back with something more substantial to add later. But let's get those Mii's flying back and forth!
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
17:58 / 09.05.07
Just a quick post to say I really don't reccomend Spidey 3. Had an uncomfortable feeling about this once the reviews started trickling in what with ordering it on a whim before I saw any.

It's so strange.

Let's get this straight, the swinging mechanic is really awesome. Just awesome. It feels pretty great once you get the hang of it. And the game underneath, the battles and so on, they're all basically the same as they ever were. The same as the first game, any Spidey game. No shock.

But that's not even my problem. No, basically, the game isn't finished. Otherwise, I honestly wouldn't care. There'd be enough for me to have my fun and be done. But the graphics are poor. Not just poor - they'd be poor even if they were polished and smooth because the art style is so drab regardless - but they're glitchy, clippy, jaggy, the frame rate stutters all the time. It's really quite bad. Animations stop and loop, and jerk and the characters can stop moving. It's like it's pushed the wii to breaking point, but it's not even doing anything that the previous game didn't do (and better, I think. I really need to track down a copy to check).

This game is fucking buggy. I've had mission complete things flash up when I'm in the middle of a mission, had to try and stop and talk to people who are standing on cars and bins, people constantly walking through walls. And I don't complain about stuff like this lightly. It has to happen a lot, it's not little random things, it's all the time. I've only played it for about 3 hours!

There could be an awesome game of this, and it's so clear. It's just never there.

I really wish somebody would meld the free sandbox city environment complete with free swinging spidey excellence to some rhythm action and wario ware style actions - but combined in to a more action setting. Some more tangible control and purpose. Integrated mini games, throwing up surprises. With huge on screen prompts at certain moments, and total hyperbole-driven presentation (crying out for Bugle headlines). Big, bold, brash and fun. Primary colours all the way. Streamlined and arcade, but still with a whole city to swing around in.

It makes no sense to have spider-man be under complete control in some circumstances like this, like trying to hone in on the head of a pin from the moon, there's way too many variables involved in trying to control him. But this isn't even new, combat in these sorts of games always feels a bit off and fiddly.

And fiddly is the key. Goals never clear, in game actions never quite registering. You do things but you're not quite sure if it's worked or not, there's no clear indicators of anything. It's all fuzzy and indistinct.

I'm debating whether to trade this in while I can still get something for it, but the swinging keeps drawing me back and I can't decide. Why must they torture me with this small joy! Because I want it - and enjoy it - every time, but the lack of game or even a decent product always disappoints me. Maybe it is just best to stick with Spidey 2 until they come up with a better one. I'd actually really like to see Capcom or somebody like that have a go at a game like this.
 
 
Lama glama
20:58 / 09.05.07
I really loved the second Spider-Man game, so I started poring over the reviews S3 earlier today to see what the verdict was.

Gah!

Looking at screenshots on some websites shows that graphically, the game is sub Spider-Man 2, which on a console like the Wii is unacceptable. Y'know in Spider-Man 2, when you climb to the top of the Empire State building and look out across Manhattan, all of the textures are there and the game looks so amazing. In S3, climbing to the same locale shows everything as textureless. It just doesn't make sense why the game doesn't look as good as the PS2 version of S2.

Apparently, the Wii version is more restricted than the PS3 and 360 versions. It turns out that the development of the game wasn't carried out by Treyarch who did fantastic jobs with the earlier numbered Spideys, but by a company called Vicarious Visions.
They've done some fairly good ports before, like Doom 3, so I just can't get why they've screwed up with S3.

I still just might give it a rent though, just to see what everybody is complaining about.

Oh, and finally: Penny Arcade.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
21:43 / 09.05.07
Or can I reccomend it?

Cos fuck if swinging around the city in this one isn't one of the finest things there is. It's very intuitive and you have so much more control over it than the other versions. Which makes sense given the controls. Sharp turns, veering off down gullys, swinging right round things and skimming rooftops. It really is a wonderful feeling. When you get in to the... flow (I couldn't make that pun) of it it's like holding on to a huge Tony Hawk combo. Swinging higher and higher until you're weaving a little web around the biggest buildings in the city, swinging round them and darting between them like it's the most natural thing in the world.

But of course - no, I couldn't actually whole heartedly reccomend it to anyone. Because work like this can't really be endorsed, it just can't. It's not good enough by any standards, even if it does hide away such wonderful swinging mechanics.

I wouldn't say Treyarch ever even did fine work on these other games (and I got a lot of joy out of them). It was always a bit of a mucky job, but it had some good stuff in there. I'd put it on a par with the Tony Hawk games (athough I think the Spider-Man games could really benefit from their main focus just being some sort of crazed rhythm based combo action like I mentioned above) really. Something a bit low budget, kind of grubby at the edges. Good when you're free and flowing on your board, but attempting to do anything precise always ends up in a fiddly mess, and breaking the whole world a little. So here - with regard to swinging, combat or whatever. Imprecise and awkward. If the main good points of the game could be grafted on to the whole, and the whole wrong headed third person nature (the illusion of freedom really being better than the reality of freedom in these games, because rules equal boundaries to guide and bounce off and play with, and without it the flaws of the gameworld are immediately exposed) of these games abandoned, it could be such a wonderful thing.

I could envision a whole game which controls like the swinging of the Wii version, but without the tedious running in to walls and the like.

It certainly is baffling why it doesn't even look as good as Cube Spidey 2 though.
 
 
ORA ORA ORA ORAAAA!!
09:14 / 14.05.07
my wii number is 7410 5975 2098 5666.
I have/will add all the people who post here, so you can see my uncannily accurate mii-representation. Excitement!
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:05 / 15.05.07
I love Excite Truck. It's one of the best original arcade racers around atm.

Takes a couple of races to become happy with the control. There's an initial period where it feels as though the response time is lacking, almost like the remote isn't registering the smaller movements you make, which disappears once you realise that of course smaller movements aren't being recognised - you're driving trucks and dune buggies, vehicles with the springiest suspension you can get.

After you've made that small mental readjustment, it's just fantastic fun all the way - an absolute riot. Forget the motion sensitive controls, because it'd be a huge laugh even without them. Tracks with huge jumps, deformable terrain, stupid rock out music, a seriously expansive draw distance - you can see to the horizon, lots of opportunity for squeezing new high scores out of each...

The initial difficulty setting is possibly a bit too easy, but that's no big - it welcomes you in with open arms. That's led to a bit of negative criticism about longevity, but it sounds like that's baws from reading board-based opinions - looks like some unlockable bits andpieces hidden away (including tracks) and it's definitely one of those games that you return to forever simply to waste some time with. It does nothing particularly spectacular, but it does a lot of things solidly and with a silly grin. Excellent.

Going back to the Wii itself, I'd forgotten that it's the only properly backwards-compatible console this generation. It's just a shame that Gamecube games are so difficult to come across nowadays, especially the best ones - had a look through the second hand racks of some local games stores today and couldn't find one that had any of the big names in (Metroid Prime, Mario Sunshine, Zelda: Wind Waker, etc.). If Nintendo had any sense, they'd re-release a lot of the Cube catalogue, but package the games in Wii-branded boxes (with a flash on the front to let people know that they need to have Cube memory cards and controllers to play them). I never understood why Sony didn't do this for PS1 games when the PS2 came out, either.

But that's another reason why the complaints about a lack of software are difficult for me to agree with - just get the Cube games that you've not played. Me, I'm after 1080 Avalanche and Viewtiful Joe 2.
 
 
netbanshee
17:36 / 03.06.07
Finally got my hands on one of these about two weeks ago and I've been putting it through its paces. Despite it not being a "next gen" console, it looks pretty decent on a 1080p flat panel with a component connection.

I haven't gone out and picked up any additional titles for it aside from a few VC games that I wanted to get my hands on. Really hoping for a reissue of Majora's Mask.. the only Zelda game on a home console that I haven't spent much time with. From all of the praise it's gotten here on the board, it's definitely an experience that I don't want to miss.

Super Paper Mario is definitely attracting my attention and loved the previous GC version. I just know that it's a time commitment that can't be made at the moment.

I'm salivating at the notion that by next year I'll be able to play Nights and SSBB on this console. I didn't have a Saturn or N64 of my own to play these games as much as I wanted. I should get off my butt though and pick up SSBM.

Randy - a proper re-release of GC titles sounds like a great idea. I'm sure there's a few titles I'd want to get to round out the GC collection of the shelf.

It would be nice to see Nintendo start to capitalize on the Wii / DS interoperability. Pokémon aside, are there any other titles that can or will take advantage of this feature?

Here's my Wii code: 2572 3540 7387 4024
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:39 / 03.06.07
Nintendo have traditionally been quite bad at realising the full potential of links between their home consoles and portables. The only thing that might make them reconsider this with the Wii and DS is that there's no need for the player to buy additional hardware to get the link to work - well, not if they've got a wireless setup at home, anyway.

Majora's Mask is on the Zelda Collector's Disc (it's called something like that, anyway) for the Cube, so you don't necessarily have to wait for it to appear on the Virtual Console. If you can wait, though, I'd suggest doing so - there's an odd bug in the Cube disc that causes the game to crash at random moments and, because of MM's innovative save structure, can wreck your experience of the game.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:55 / 16.09.07
Thought it worth pointing out that Nintendo Europe have started releasing some previously Japan-only games over the Virtual Console download service. It's currently limited to games that appeared on the firm's own hardware and is being promoted as a special event - six games over three weeks - as opposed to a decent and proper move towards providing official access to games that we've been denied up until now, but at least it's something.

For reasons best known to themselves, one of the games will only be available until the end of September - Super Mario Bros: Lost Levels. that's out now. Also available now is Mario's Super Picross, which is a smart little puzzle game that should be familiar to DS owners.

Next week is Ninja Gaiden and some other ninja thing that i don't think I've heard of before, the week after is Gradius III and Sin & Punishment.

The last of these is enormous news and suggests that somebody at Nintendo frequents a number of videogames boards. It's one of the most desirable N64 games and something that's attained near-legendary status. Developed by Treasure, only released in Japan, supposedly something of a showcase for the hardware.

What's interesting about this is that they've made no effort to change these games for their western debuts - there's been no translation work carried out, they're just the regular Japanese ROMs. I suspect this is also one of the reasons why, so far, nothing's been mentioned about Japanese Nintendo games being released in the US - Sony US have been funny about not allowing *any* Japanese text or vocals into their releases (which is yet another example of that arm of that firm's idiocy, imo) and I could quite easily see Nintendo US taking the same stance.

On the plus side for American Wii owners, previously Japan-only PCE CD games are going to start appearing on their VC service, which is something that has yet to be mentioned in relation to Europe. First up: the original Cho Aniki.

Of course, this last bit of news will be pointless unless Nintendo either release a hardware add-on that expands the Wii's meagre storage space or allow customers to save VC games to memory card. Them CD games are going to swallow it - I'm not sure that I even have enough space left for one CD release on the internal memory of my console now.
 
  
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