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Pomegranates: symbolism, imagery, poetry

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17:00 / 26.04.07

Hi, Lithers--this may be a light thread for Temple, but it's not quite light enough for Convo I think. I'm looking for images, poetry, lines of text, history, and symbology of pomegranates. A friend of mine is researching before designing a tattoo for herself.

She's starting with the Persephone myth, naturally enough, and she has the usual classical sources. Then there's the Jewish tradition and Biblical and early Christian symbolism. I'm interested particularly in medieval manuscripts, alchemy, and Arabic texts, which are things that I know feature pomegranates but I don't know much about.

Ideally we would eventually get a short quote, line of poetry or prose, or even a four or five word fragment, that distills the essence of pomegranate (like a syrup which could be poured into the vodka of life etc hah hah.) that she could incorporate into the design.

EmberLeo, I know you've written some on pomegranates here before...want to kick us off?

17:07 / 26.04.07

I was reading something lately about the pith of pomegranates being a contraceptive. Let me see if I can fish it out.

17:12 / 26.04.07

62. And we shall make specific mention of some. Pine bark, tanning sumach, equal quantities of each, rub with wine and apply in due measure before coitus after wool has been wrapped around; and after two or three hours she may remove it and have intercourse. Another: Of Cimolian earth, root of panax, equal quantities, rub with water separately and together, and when sticky apply in like manner. Or: Grind the inside of fresh pomegranate peel with water, and apply. Or: Grind two parts of pomegranate peel and one part of oak galls, form small suppositories and insert after the cessation of menstruation. Or: Moist alum, the inside of pomegranate rind, mix with water, and apply with wool. Or: Of unripe oak galls, of the inside of pomegranate peel, of ginger, of each 2 drachms, mould it with wine to the size of vetch peas and dry indoors and give before coitus, to be applied as a vaginal suppository. Or: Grind the flesh of dried figs and apply together with natron. Or: Apply pomegranate peel with an equal amount of gum and an equal amount of oil of roses. Then one should always follow with a drink of honey water. But one should beware of things which are very pungent, because of the ulcerations arising from them. And we use all these things after the end of menstruation ...

From here.

17:23 / 26.04.07

I should probably add that it is very interesting to note that Persephone does not have any known offspring even though Her myth is directly associated with Fertility and the seasonal cycle.

18:01 / 26.04.07

EmberLeo, I know you've written some on pomegranates here before...want to kick us off?

*blinks* I have? I don't have much to add outside of the Persephone myth, just now. I quite like pomegranates to eat, and associate the fruit and candles of that scent with Samhain and connecting with the spirits during the proper season.

--Ember--

20:04 / 26.04.07

Lots of cultures give the fruit lots of meanings (and it's in the coat of arms of a few medical associations).

Myth collectors call it multivalent. Fertility, longevity, prosperity. Good wedding gift in Greece and China, and possibly among Bedouins. It's also supposedly important, in Islamic cultures, to eat every seed of a pomegranate, since one seed in each fruit came from gardens in Heaven.

And you wouldn't want throw that out.

20:16 / 26.04.07

Julia Sweeney tells these stories:

I saw pictures in Tibet of the goddess Hariti who was a child eater, but the Buddha cured her of her child-eating by substituting a pomegranate for a child, and Hariti was satisfied with the bloody, crunchy pulp – which I guess was SO like eating children. Anyway, Hariti reformed and afterwards became a protectress of little children. In Japan she is called Kishimojin, and she’s called upon by infertile women to help get them pregnant. She is shown nursing and infant, which is held in one hand and in her other hand she is holding...a pomegranate, of course.

But my favorite pomegranate legend is a Jewish one. The Talmud has a story where the wife of a Rabbi disguises herself as a forbidden beautiful maiden to test her husband’s fidelity. When the Rabbi sees her he is overwhelmed with passion. The disguised maiden tells him, "If you bring me a pomegranate you may ravish me to your heart's desire." So, he climbs to the top of this tree and gets a pomegranate. When he arrives back to where the maiden was, he is shocked to see his wife standing there. Ooooops. "Hi honey, do you care for a pomegranate?" Eeeek. The wife doesn’t seem to be too mad, she sort of laughs and says, “Hey it was only me all along, darling!” But the Rabbi is so devastated by his behavior that he says, “Nevertheless, I would have done evil.” And then he fasts himself to DEATH. Oh dear. Oh dear. That is really feeling bad.

It was also named for a grammar error.

Paintings by Botticelli and Da Vinci.

20:30 / 26.04.07

Kishimojin is also often holding a mongoose.

But here, with a pomegranate and child:

"Whoever resists our spell
And troubles a preacher,
May his head be split in seven
Like an arjaka sprout;
May his doom be that of a parricide,
His retribution that of an oil-expresser
Or a deceiver with [false] measures and weights,
Or of Devadatta who brought schism into the Samgha;
He who offends these teachers of the Law,
Such shall be his retribution."

She has many names.

Perhaps a quote from this passage of the Kama Sutra might be a bit too much for a tattoo.

Unconditional Love

20:46 / 26.04.07

Sekhmet is sometimes said to be tricked by Ra into not killing all of humanity by mixing jugs of beer and pomegranate juice so she gets drunk before she does so (juice like blood as above).

23:29 / 26.04.07

One of the Christian Rosenkreuz stories has got Christian visiting some sort of eatery (restaurant, tavern, handily available kitchen) and he asks if they've got a pomegranate. He is told by an old woman 'no' and the story goes on, to memory, never again addressing why it was significant to have the pomegranate namechecked. It was translated from German, in a small-print collection of CR stories published sometime in the sixties on very thick paper. If it rings bells for anyone else, perhaps they could provide a title or more helpful linkage.

Also, and I believe clearly magickal because it broke and pollenated more parts of my brain than anything Grant Morrison ever wrote, there was a sort of advert in Tresierras grocery stores (I saw it in two, one in California, one outside Tijuana), some years ago: Woman, blonde, looks kinda like Donna Reed crossed with Rosie the Riveter with a bit of a halo, bearing a baking tray of split open and steaming pomegranates, and a phrase beneath: 'Decorate your oven. Heat.'

I've been walking around with that never leaving my head for more than a few days at a time, since possibly ninety-eight or so.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

03:44 / 27.04.07

Apparently, pomegranates are connected to Hera as well as Persephone, which theoretically dates back to her time as an Aegean Triple Goddess figure. Bearing in mind that I'm getting this from the wiki page on pomegranates, so be wary. It mentions something about them being mentioned in Exodus and seeds being sewn into priest robes.

They are one of my favourite fruits, and I always make sure to eat one on my birthday as a symbol of death/rebirth.

05:47 / 27.04.07

Images of Ganesh frequently show him carrying a pomegranate in his trunk. I'm not quite sure why this is - possibly some of the associations that grant lists. Will dig and get back to you.

13:14 / 27.04.07

Pomegranates feature behind the High Priestess in the Tarot, and symbolise feminine sexuality among other things. Kinda like figs.

21:20 / 28.04.07

I've heard that pomegranates are related to Hera as well, but not only as a pre-Olympian goddess -- the spiky calyx supposedly looks like her crown as queen of the gods.

12:10 / 29.04.07

XK - "I should probably add that it is very interesting to note that Persephone does not have any known offspring even though Her myth is directly associated with Fertility and the seasonal cycle."

That is interesting, I guess it reflects the fact that she is the daughter of a fertility goddess, and is less a fertility deity herself... more a representation of spirit itself as it moves from the land of the living, at which point that land flourishes, full of spirit and life... and then to the land of the dead, where she rules, and the life leaves the land of the living with her. She is the movement of life, not the producer.

/end barely relevent comment

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22:49 / 29.04.07

Wow! I've been on holiday so haven't had regular internet access, and I was quite pleasantly surprised at all the wonderful information this thread has collecte so far.

Sorry for namechecking you, EmberLeo; a post of yours came up when I google-searched barbelith and pomegranate. I'll try to find it again and also post some of the alchemical stuff my own research turned up.