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Debate a tragedy

 
 
Hieronymus
15:25 / 19.04.07
Some of this might be a bit rambling or emotionally raw. I just heard news that a friend of mine knew one of the victims at Virginia Tech.

Is there a need for a decorum policy in the face of a tragedy? Case in point: in the case of the Virginia Tech massacre, is it respectful/disrespectful to conflate a discussion about a psychopath's rampage with a discourse about gun control?

Should two threads in a situation like this be created (one to focus on the facts or information of an event vs. discussion of its broader sociopolitical scope) or are the merits of the debate warranted within one thread, based upon the context?
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
16:17 / 19.04.07
I think it is normal that when someone kills multiple people the question "How could this happen?" gets asked. In the case of a mass shooting the answer to that question will undoubtedly involve the fact that the killer was able to obtain the weapons that were used.

When that happens it seems only natural that people will have varying opinions. On Barbeltih sharing opinions through discussion is the way we do things. Gun control became part of the issue almost immediately, by the US media and the leaders of foreign countries. I do not think it is possible to discuss the shooting without also discussing the means the killer had to procure his weapons.
 
 
sleazenation
19:13 / 19.04.07
Personally I see the wider debate on Gun control in the US as being best suited to a specific thread on the subject and have put in a mod request in an attempt to bring some focus to the VT thread, but, as was pointed out to me in a PM, more than half of the thread is now on the wider subject of gun control.

So what is the most effective course of action?

Repositioning and retitling the current VT thread to being about US gun control laws in general and start a new VT thread or attempting to spin the gun control stuff out to its own thread.

What do you all think?
 
 
HCE
19:45 / 19.04.07
It's tricky -- certainly gun control in general is deserving of a discrete thread, but how do you not talk about gun control when somebody's killed a lot of people with guns?
 
 
sleazenation
19:53 / 19.04.07
I take your point, I guess I'd argue that a thread about VT itself can go many places including looking at grief, media reporting and the immediate aftermath at VT and around the US, whereas a thread about the rights and wrongs of gun control that used the events at VT as a jumping off point would probably veer around a bit onto examples and debates, historical examples, policy frameworks etc that aren't so tightly focused on VT.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
04:48 / 20.04.07
I have no problem with someone starting (or more like re-starting) a thread to discuss handguns and their availability in the United States. However, if one is not currently active and it comes up in a thread which is about what could arguably used as case A for people who think that gun controls are too lax I don't think it's wildly off-topic to discuss it. Seeing as this idiot invoked the names of the Columbine killers as martyrs, it wouldn't be off-topic to discuss them in this situation either.

After a tragedy such as this, one of the questions everyone from elected officials to Joe Internet asks is 'how can we make sure this never happens again'. A discussion on gun availability is a natural part of this discussion.

I'm afraid I don't see how any discussion could be disrespectful as Hieronymus frames it, I'm perhaps more used to the phrase being used in an attempt to shut down an area of debate.
 
 
HCE
06:55 / 20.04.07
If people need a space to grieve, a message board may or may not be a good place to do that, depending on how individual relationships are structured and what the culture of the board is. A thread on the shootings in Switchboard doesn't strike me as an ideal place for that, but I take sleaze's point that gun control is the type of issue that could easily swamp a variety of other aspects or ways of examining the events. Maybe this is already happening, but perhaps the people interested in the other approaches could keep up their conversation about that while efforts are made to port gun control out to another thread? I believe I saw somebody had bumped another one.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:36 / 20.04.07
If people need a space to grieve, a message board may or may not be a good place to do that, depending on how individual relationships are structured and what the culture of the board is.

Very true. If the thread had been set up for the purpose of grieving, that would be a very different thing, and there is certainly a space for that.

I thought that the specific argument about gun control between Boboss and Kirk Ultra was getting out of hand, and threatening threadrot not particularly because of the gun control issue but because it was turning into flaming, and flaming rots threads. This is a failing of the conversation rather than the topic. Should they have exercised more decorum because of the subject matter? Perhaps so, and perhaps so should Hieronymus, and in both cases one's own expectations might colour one's reactions. However, the idea of a "decorum policy" strikes me as decidedly tricky to conceive of or enforce. If a thread is to be intended purely for people to mourn, in a decorous fashion by whatever standard of decorum we are applying here, then it can be flagged as such in the topic summary. In this case, a degree of confusion was introduced by the change of summaries, which Flowers did to reflect how the thread had actually developed, but the first summary itself did not specify that the topic needed to be approached in a particular way, apart from the usual requirements of topicality and Barbetiquette.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:45 / 20.04.07
I can see how a problem would arise if people were merely using a bunch of fresh corpses as a soapbox from which to espouse their political views (see Jack Thomson, for example), but I'm not really getting a sense of that from the thread.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:55 / 20.04.07
Well, indeed, which was why I found the particular choice of language used in the thread rather upsetting.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:05 / 20.04.07
Oh, no disagreement here. I mean that in general, it's true that it's hard not to discuss gun control when talking about something like that. Probably slightly easier not to get vicious with each other.
 
 
Spaniel
17:45 / 20.04.07
I'm not sure I wrote anything too inflammatory in the thread in question. I disagreed with Kirk's continual assumption - as I saw it - that gun control laws cannot succeed in reducing gun crime, I voiced that opinion strongly because I was of the impression that Kirk was failing utterly to examine that very important point. I then posted once more, in the wake of Kirk's counter post, to say that while I thought that Kirk had failed to engage properly with what I'd written, I wouldn't be posting anymore in that thread.

I think the worst that can be said for what I posted was that it was a little dismissive and could be construed as slightly unethical as I was putting Kirk in dilemma: either post a retort inthread and look like he didn't respect Id's wishes or post nothing in response and lose the last word. That is, of course, nonsense as he was always free to start a new thread, as Haus has now done.

For what it's worth, I was venting a bit that day and I think I could have handled the situation with Kirk better. My dismissive tone and failure to really unpack what I was thinking were errors and probably didn't contribute to good feeling.

As it stands I don't want to continue the discussion because the whole thing depresses me horribly.
 
 
Spaniel
18:14 / 20.04.07
Umm, actually scratch that, I think the worst that can be said is that I was posting terse dismissive comments in a thread where emotions were bound to be running high. Not a good plan.

My only excuse is that my emotions were running high too.
 
  
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