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The Immortal Iron Fist

 
  

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The Falcon
23:08 / 12.04.07
So, while we're all posting about various post-Civil War titles that Marvel are releasing, I thought it apposite to bring one to the table that began during, but is set after, Marvel's popular in the stores/unpopular on the internets mega-event.

I have to confess some interest in the character, probably unusual for even someone like me in their late twenties - given the last time there was a decent (solo, I can't speak to the long run in the duo book Power Man and... having seen none of it; they don't make duo books anymore, whither Cloak and Dagger) Iron Fist title was the mid-1970's where the title ran for fifteen issues from '75, with a pre-X-Men Claremont/Byrne creative team, still raw and hungry; Here's the first cover featuring Danny Rand apparently beating the shit out of Civil War douchebag Iron Man. (I'm sure it was all a misunderstanding and they made friends until fateful 2006.)

Anyway, yeah, I never read any of that either but basically if you were a Marvel trademark fortunate enough to guest star in a Spider-Man title in the late eighties or early nineties, chances are I *heart* you for life (again: see Cloak and Dagger who've the added advantage of guesting in Power Packs I read also. There should really be a good C&D book.) And so, in a roundabout way, we get to Marvel Tales #197, a reprint of '77's Marvel Team-Up #63, the first part of a double-header that was to bookend the Fist-man's original series - I didn't get all that many comics as a young 'in, but used to be able to get a proper American one from the Banff Mace when we visited my Gran, and this was one such - I think I still have it, I'm damned if I know where, but more than almost any other comic, or superhero comic (I ain't forget you, Transformers) I remember it completely vividly without having read it for a good number of years - I even remember the Layton Hercules back-up feature well. It includes a stroganoff(?) recipe and the phrase 'piping hot'.

It's a heavily dramatic affair feauturing Spidey, Iron Fist, his girlfriend Misty Knight, Colleen Wing and the lead character's (because for all that Spidey was the marquee on Team-Up, this certainly was an Iron Fist comic) nemesis Steel Serpent. And at the end - SPOILERS for a 30 year old comic - Steel Serpent wins, basically, taking Danny's chi and leaving him crumpled, broken and powerless. Affecting stuff, when you're eight, I'd say, and something I never managed to get over by, for example, finding the next installment.

Twenty years later, it was time I righted these wrongs, and you might recall me being embarrassingly excited at the prospect of the book; as it went, the first three issues were very well-crafted, beautifully drawn affairs, but rather drawn out I felt - more Brubaker, solid character drama, than Fraction - wild ideas. (Incidentally, you can listen to the latter talking, at about 20-28 mins about this book along with his other, also very enjoyable, comics Punisher War Journal and Casanova and the upcoming Milligan-Infinity Inc.-paralleling Champions.)

With #4, the mix broadens out nicely though; Bru's meatiness is finally complemented and balanced by Fraction's sharp modernism, and it legitimately becomes one of my favourite two, three comics being published today (SPOILERS now follow, I suppose) - the Foreman-illustrated framing narrative, which I've certainly appreciated as a kind of cultural reappropriation with numerous legacy Iron Fists predating Danny in the role and actually instead of being some colonial white master are of the region of K'Un-Lun (fictional) and Tibet (real), brings his immediate predecessor Orson Randall - the Iron Fist of WWI: imo, the best character in the book and, I'd further speculate, Rand's (great?) grandaddy - into sharp focus, though only the crinkly edges of his and by extension the legacy's history remain evident, with Victorian airships, secret enigmatically train-stations and some real gun-fu, dragon-chi bullets - suck it up, Equilibrium. There's also betrayal, balletic and eroticised - and, thereby, all the more distressing - martial arts violence from Davos, the Steel Serpent, a crane-crone and her daughters and staple multitudinous Marvel terrorists Hydra with their not-so-staple war-engine Mechagorgon.

Visually, David Aja makes it a feast - he's been compared, not unreasonably, to the likes of Lee Weeks, Michael Lark and so forth, basically anyone whose drawn Daredevil recently which suggests a judicious use of blacks, a post-Mazzuchelli air, and is to some extent fair (one of the pages in an earlier issue looks identical to a Lark page), but Aja steps up to draw everything beautifully, and has something of a rugged experimentalism, I'd say JH Williams III vibe occasionally showing through; you get Steranko-whirls and impact zones in the panels, for example, and there's a great progressive movement page through nine panels in #3 with Fist evading SHIELD detention that really captures this sensation, something you'll less likely see the two aforementioned trying.

It's hooked onto an Oriental and historical mystique vibe nice and tight now (and there's less of an atrocious parade of ads in the latter issues, which does help) and, as for me, I'm locked on. I know some of you gotta be reading this.
 
 
Mario
23:23 / 12.04.07
It's a well done comic, but a couple of things about it disappoint me.

First, Fraction seems to find Orson Randall more interesting than Danny himself. The Iron Fist we've been reading for years has almost been reduced to a sidekick role in his own book.

Second... Steel Serpent AGAIN? Sometimes it feels like every Iron Fist story is either Steel Serpent or the return of Master Khan.

That being said, it's better than most of Marvel's recent output.
 
 
The Falcon
23:49 / 12.04.07
Yeah, it's kind of become - and if you've read the eight-pager in the Civil War: Choosing Sides (which i paid the equivalent of $5 for just for that) reprinted in the Director's Cut (urk) of #1 this is fairly explicitly pointed up - about Danny's journey to find himself; I think it's only the most recent issue that foregrounds Orson, really, and as a plot point he's obviously privy to a lot Danny isn't. I mean, I do think he's a better character, as I say; grizzled and broken (though he recovered quick enough) WWI survivor, son of Victorian-era genius beats out billionaire martial artist for my money.

When you say 'the Iron Fist we've been reading all these years'; are there a great deal of comics over the last thirty years that do foreground him? I know he had a couple series in the nineties, both with eyetearingly bad art iirc, but I'm generally not aware of there having been much Rand-centric action in these last few decades.
 
 
matsya
00:24 / 13.04.07
"Iron Man's repulsor ray KNOCKING ME OUT!"

"Iron Fist's kung fu blow DESTROYING MY ARMOR!"

fuckin priceless

"OH NO I AM UNCONSCIOUS!"

only a short step from

"Mother, he has killed me!"

What! You egg!
 
 
This Sunday
01:31 / 13.04.07
"Iron Fist's kung fu blow DESTROYING MY ARMOR!" is the title of the next painting I do. Regardless of actual subject.

It does make me sad, thinking about this book and several others recently, that blatant social, internatin, and racial and gender politics cannot be tackled head-on in mainstreamy comics or supertights books. Because there's such history, much of it horrorstory and embarrassing in the light of thirty-years-later, that could be mined and detourned and commented on, parodied, reevaluated, or otherwise used to generate interesting and useful considerations on these topics. But they won't happen more than one glib throwaway line every three issues or so.

If I'm wrong or forgetting anything recent, please, by all means, shoot me the book's title and an example.

I'm probably going to at least glimpse at the TPB for this, when it comes, though. Are Brubaker and Fraction actually writing this together, like a committee-style story-meeting, or is one providing input and the other jobbing it down into a script?
 
 
Spaniel
06:46 / 13.04.07
I agree that Orson is currently a lot more interesting than Danny, but I expect that to change over time, it is, however, potentially a misstep at this point.

As for the Steel Serpent, bring him the fuck on. I love what they've done with this character, transforming him from a failure to the champion of anti-Kun Lun. He's Iron Fist's own Sinestro, with a built in mythology, and it more than works for me.
 
 
Mario
09:59 / 13.04.07
Well, Power Man & Iron Fist lasted 125 issues. He didn't have many appearances from 1986 to 1991, but that's because he was dead at the time.

He also headlined the Ostrander Heroes For Hire series, which I kinda liked.
 
 
The Falcon
20:44 / 13.04.07
Are Brubaker and Fraction actually writing this together, like a committee-style story-meeting, or is one providing input and the other jobbing it down into a script?

Well, apparently they story-conference over Xbox 360 ping-pong; judging from Fraction's audio interview, they do write discreet sections - he mentions Bru penning, bagsying even, the Severin bit and himself, not crying into milk, getting to write instead the Heath.

On Orson's involvement - I think it's worth pointing out the books prefix is 'Immortal' and this suggests, along with all the historical frontloaded bits about 13th-18th C. versions, that the scope is not ever going to be solely about Danny Rand; perhaps something like they are all human avatars of the dragon, Shou-Lao - probably better than that, I'd hope, but also the forthcoming #7 is going to be an all Wu Ao-Shi issue. I also note with interest that both the male, Oriental predecessors share a family name, Bei Ming-Tao and Bei Bang-Wen, so I wonder if there's going to turn out to be some family lineage with Orson, presumably, miscegenating (horrible word) into the K'Un Lun bloodline and you get maybe the Bei or Wu line meeting Rand(all - note the last three letters peeling off the aircraft at the opening of #4,) maybe something like that.

Anyway, if anyone's dithering in considering either picking this book up or fully proclaiming its greatness: here is the answer. Thass a f*&% yeah, right there.
 
 
Spaniel
18:51 / 14.04.07
That's the answer I've been giving people.

Super kung-fu has needed a place in comics for a long time
 
 
Mark Parsons
04:54 / 15.04.07
I just caught up with all four issues and was very pleasantly wowed. If the team can keep up this level of quality, we're in for a damned fun, cool & memorable ride.
 
 
The Falcon
20:48 / 11.05.07
This month Danny Rand kicks a Hydra terrorist through a pneumatic train. Okay?

Also, every one of his Fist of the North Star moves has a better name than they would there. Frankly, if you don't have purest love for this comic you have earned my cold, cold hate*.

*Ohhh, how I wish I were joking.
 
 
Mario
21:18 / 11.05.07
I will admit that, on it's own, IIF is a great title.

But I still can't shake the feeling that Bru & Fraction would rather be writing "The Immortal Orson Randall".
 
 
The Falcon
22:24 / 11.05.07
To an extent, perhaps. But I will actually lay money, and then not post it (like I've not posted Gumbitch's sponsorship) for some time, that he dies next ish.

Anyway, as I've already said upthread - 'Iron Fist' is clearly, and interestingly, being treated, with some progressive cultural outcomes (I think? however minor) - as a mantle, hence the title. Your alternative makes little sense in this respect, Mister M.
 
 
Mario
22:44 / 11.05.07
Oh, I agree that Mr. Randall is not long for the world. But, in a way, that's almost a bad thing. A dramatic death is often the fate of a Mary Sue character, often with the canon characters gathered around weeping.

And while the concept of prior Iron Fists is not new to this story (having been mentioned before, as far back as the original Iron Fist series), this is the first time one has been an active part of a story.

I think that's my biggest problem with the series. Danny Rand himself has nothing that makes him special.

He's not the first Iron Fist. There have been 65 others, including the kung-fu monk Iron Fist, the female pirate archer Iron Fist, and the nutty swordsman Iron Fist.

He's not the only living Iron Fist. There's another, who is not only more skilled, but comes with badass double chi pistols.

He's not even the only Immortal Weapon. Now there are six others.

All these characters have a hook. Something that makes them stand out. What's Danny's?
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
23:48 / 11.05.07
"What's Danny's?"

I think that's probably what we're building up to. I mean, hasn't that been the character's problem for ages? He's just sort of... eh. He was only ever popular as part of the Luke Cage Odd Couple or while pretending to be Daredevil.

Sides, I figure he's the Last Iron Fist.
 
 
The Falcon
21:58 / 28.06.07
I will actually lay money, and then not post it for some time, that he dies next ish.

Well, it'd now be [+] [-] Spoiler

In the end, there are [just about] monthly superhero comics and there is...

The Immortal Iron Fist, to give it it's full glorious title. God, I love this book. Black comedy, pathos, violence, tight-weft plots, great cliffhangers*, violence, popping dialogue, art so good it hurts, did I mention violence?

#6 has a lot of that. To the point of almost being '...beyond meaning', as one sadly-missed miniseries, particularly round this parish, a few years back touted for its never-to-be-seen successor. Anyway, there are pistols, swords, iron fists, rifles and kicks to the face aplenty adorning a surprisingly meaty story, given - you know - all the VIOLENCE. It is beautiful. Comics are, frankly, made for this.

*I cannot wait for it to get seriously abstract in 'The Seven Capital Cities of Heaven'. Nor also for 'Mary-Sue character' (a cheap criticism, imo, and one which I consistently find surprisingly needling) Orson Randall's headstone, in the Brereton-paints-over-Chaykin-pencils (hello, Thrillkiller team) Annual.
 
 
Mr Tricks
19:01 / 29.06.07
Well, what's got me interested is how ther other 6 "living weapons" will be broken down.

According to GENERAL KUNG FU THEORY, there are 4 methods of attack: ti (kicking 踢 ), da (striking 打 ), shuai (throwing 摔 )& na (locking – joint
manipulation 拿 ). This is general framework that can pretty much be applied to all martial arts, regardless of style. Iron Fist would seem to all into the category of da.

Added to this is the concept of the Seven Stars (qi xing 七星 ) of the body. These are the parts of the body to most useful as striking weapons: head, shoulder, elbow, hand, hip, knee, foot. If Iron Fist could be considered to be having domain over the hand (fist) then are we to expect him to fight an IRON HIP?

Or will he be dealing with the 4 other Chinese elements? FIRE,WOOD,EARTH,WATER? Or will it break down to 6 other Kung fu weapons? those are broken down into tons of categories: Fist, Spear, Sword, Bow, Stick, Rope & Knife?

I suspect an IRON BODY type of guy will be in the mix somewhere... Just some of the fun ideas these last issues have left me with.
 
 
The Falcon
20:52 / 29.06.07
I love you.
 
 
Mario
22:11 / 29.06.07
I can give you a little information, gleaned from another board. Based on the Chinese characters on the upcoming covers, the 7 Weapons are:

dragon, dog, turtle, crane, monkey, spider, and tiger.
 
 
Mr Tricks
23:08 / 29.06.07
Weird. I Guess DRAGON is Iron Fist's.

All but Turtle, Crane and Spider are part of the Chinese Zodiac.

Turtle has a special significance in it's role as the Chinese "ATLAS" as well as it's role in the I Ching.

CRANE is big in Kung Fu mythology.

But Spider? . . . That's an odd one. I'd sooner have thought MANTIS for its KUNG FU significance.
 
 
Spaniel
22:43 / 30.06.07
THIS

"I have the best kung-fu. So bring it"

YES

Issexcomic
 
 
Spaniel
22:44 / 30.06.07
But serously, fuckingood
 
 
Mario
00:59 / 01.07.07
There are the animals of the four compass directions: Tortoise, Phoenix, Tiger, and Dragon....
 
 
Essential Dazzler
00:20 / 28.09.07
Dear Marvel, please stop letting Howard Chaykin draw books I'm reading. Thanks.

Lots of Iron Fist this week, and apart from Bumface, it's all good.
 
 
Spaniel
19:29 / 28.09.07
I will have to get back this thread as I don't have a lot of time right now. Needless to say I'm still enjoying the comic, but I have complaints. Quite a few, in fact.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
05:34 / 01.10.07
I have to say, this may be my favorite book marvel is currently putting out. I got hooked on the trade, and I love this Kung-Fu goodness. I'm just sayin'.
 
 
The Falcon
19:55 / 02.10.07
I'd be interested to know what these complaints are, Boboss - I reread the two latest books in hope of anticipating the critique to be posted forthwith, but really, I dunno. There's maybe something perhaps a bit... facile about a fair portion of Fraction's work? An element of that; I consider it best tempered and offset by his cowriter here, who I'd imagine would've been the major draw for any Barbeliths actually reading the book (I'd really like to hear from a few folk that I'd bet are reading this; it remains absolutely my very favourite regular comic - some distance ahead of Batman, for example.)

Anyway, yeah, Fraction - I just think he kind of effortlessly, and not too conspicuously or obnoxiously, hits touchstones of what-constitutes-the-exciting-comicbook; in #9 the vaunted Ellisian 'fight comic', scene transitions straight outta Street Fighter, something that really you'd have thought Marvel comics might have broken some recent ground in in their storied history but no, and in the Annual primarily Planetary or your LOEG histories that never were (I did think we strayed too far into cute pulp with Barko, in fairness, and sure it's less literary than either example - I don't like any Djurdjevic sequentials I've seen yet either, too much gloss, covers are great tho'; also #7 went some distance over this here brane-line of "acceptably cute" - really an issue ideally only P Craig Russell could have drawn, that one.) Generally, though, I'm happy to consider him the best prospect for writing the kind of books I like there's been since, I dunno, John Smith's career withered and died - notions of his facileness, which I've mostly just expounded here personally, are to my mind counterbalanced by scenes like Danny, climactically, reading the life of Orson - just too touching for me, that, for the pulsing heart of loving and celebrating i) reading and ii) lost friends.

It's hard to distribute credit in this case, of course, but I do tend to offer Fraction the plaudits for the exciting and kind of daft, leftfield bits.
 
 
Spaniel
09:23 / 03.10.07
I want to reread this run before I judge my opinions settled, but at the moment I'm feeling (and yes "feeling" is the appropriate word) that this comic, despite it's fun and worthwhile rebuild of the Iron Fist mythos, just lacks any real weight. I simply don't find myself caring about much of it or getting any real sense of drama, and while I recognise that fault my lie with me - with my expectations, with my criteria for what makes good comics, and/or for not reading closely enough - I'm worried that it has much more to do with Fraction's abilities as a writer.

I'm pointing the finger at Fraction here because I know for sure that Brubaker is more than capable of making me give a shit. Anyone know how the writing is divied up on this? Is Brubaker's name on it simply to boost sales?

All that said, Iron Fist does still manage to rank pretty highly in Boboss's list of best superpants.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
11:21 / 03.10.07
I watched a video of the pair yesterday. Apparently Fraction writes first drafts, Brubaker rewrites, Fraction re-rewrites, Brubaker re-re-rewrites and bungs it to the editor.

Although I may have gotten lost amongst all the back-patting.

Fraction did describe the comic as "A Bonsai Tree of Kicking" which is how I'm describing it from now on.

Your feelings are interesting Boboss, I don't get anything like that from the comics. I'm scared to re-read it incase I do, now.
 
 
Spaniel
12:15 / 03.10.07
I hopeful that I won't feel the same way post a reread.

Must do it soon. Very soon.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
14:24 / 03.10.07
After hearing Boboss and Gumbitch's drunken but hearty recommendations this weekend, I'm definitely going to be getting the trade of this. i did read the first issue, but it coincided with me feeling a bit 'bleh' about excess comics at the time, so I ignored it. But now I relaise that there is definitely room for superkung-fu comics in my diet. What was I thinking?
 
 
Mario
00:40 / 04.10.07
I still can't shake the feeling that Fracbaker simply don't like Daniel Rand all that much. In the first arc, he was basically lead around by the nose by Orson-Sue Randall, a cooler character who knows more than Danny does about the Iron Fist.

And now, he's being lead around by the blue-eyed serving girl, who not only cheap-shots Danny, but knows more than he does about K'un L'un.

(Is it me, or does Danny's nose keep getting broken?)

The character is almost completely reactive.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
02:59 / 07.10.07
Frubaker definately loves Orson Randall. That said, I get the feeling that by the end of "The Seven Capital Cities..." we're going to see Danny Rand operating on a new level.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
10:27 / 07.10.07
I still can't shake the feeling that Fracbaker simply don't like Daniel Rand all that much.

Lines like "My name is Daniel Rand. I am ... Incredibly rich. It's pretty great" and "My capabiliities apparently have infinite depth. And infinite ways to kill men. Like this one ... the Black-Black Poison Touch. Awesome" would tend to support that idea.

He does seem like a fairly problematic character, in terms of his motivation. Granted, his life, his corporation and the heavenly city of K'un-Lun are supposed to be in danger at the moment, but it feels like at any time he could go off and play golf in the Bahamas instead. Which he would be fine if he was being actively written as a sort of amiable dilettante, or a rich kid riding for a fall, or any of the other possible variations, but so far Brubaker and Fraction (and I'm inclined to blame Fraction for this) don't appear to have decided. Even his origin blurb, which describes him as "a captain of industry, a hero on the run and a member of the underground New Avengers" seems a bit confused; it's difficult to see how he's coping with all this, and yet he manages to truck along somehow, largely unflustered.

Which might be the point, that the Rand family cash plus the power of the Iron Fist mean he's a disengaged camper generally, but it could equally just be down to flaws in the writing.
 
 
Spaniel
12:18 / 07.10.07
It's also, as Mario says, down to way that the character has been primarily reactive. All that stuff about being a captain of industry and an Avenger on the run gives us very little insight into the character, and is classic telling not showing.

Okay, in the first episode we have Danny running off to check out the Wai Go offices on a hunch, but after that decidedly unexplained bit of decision making he's basically shunted from issue to issue.
Instead of homing in on Danny Rand the focus has been on a whistle stop tour of the new and improved Iron Fist mythos, some snazzy genre rooted ideas, and Orson Randall. Now, all that has made for a pretty entertaining comic, and I can see why they felt it was important to get us up to speed on the supercool world they've invented, but putting the focus on Orson and not Danny is an interesting and potentially worrying move. I mean, I can see how they ended up in that place - I can think of a number of positive reasons why they would have made that choice - but putting the spotlight on someone other than the lead character often means that the writers are struggling to make that character work. I hope that's not the case here. In fact I'm hoping that now that Orson is dead, and the fallout dealt with in the annual, we're going to be seeing a whole lot more of Danny.

By the way, I enjoyed the book a lot more on a reread. Despite my griping, there's a lot to like here.
 
  

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