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Saints

21:17 / 09.04.07

This is the thread to talk about Saints. I'll admit to knowing not much about the practice but being really intrigued. I'm having a bit of a "maybe Christianity" month and it's all a bit confusing and massive, but I know that if I do go towards the Big J it will quite likely be through big, magical Catholiscism. So, what can people tell me about Saints. What's the official line on them/their use and how is that similar/dissimilar to most peoples actual practice? Do people have favourite saints? Do people have Saint related experience?

I'm coming to this topic from a place of poverty, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, if there where any Catholics out there who wouldn't mind talking about stuff by PM, that would be great.

Saints of personal interest:
St. Angela Merici, a rocking, gender equality promoting, education providing, Pope refusing nun.

St. Expidite, an almost certainly made up figure in charge of wordplay, fast delivery and procrastinators.

and St. Christina the Astonishing, a floating, possibly mad woman, who had travelled through all three of the afterlives, could smell sin and would hide in ovens just to avoid it.

Epop Bastart the Justified, I

21:23 / 09.04.07

Nisargdatta Maharaj

Solid. Spent his life running a tiny tobacconists in Bombay, and looks like he could drill holes in walls.

21:28 / 09.04.07

Thanks for that Epop. He sounds cool.
I didn't say it, but Epop's post reminded me, though *my* specific concern is for official Catholic Saints, I'd be really happy for people to post stuff from other traditions too.

00:37 / 10.04.07

I'll write more tomorrow, but saints are a wonderful way to put a human face on the ineffable -- there's something sophisticated (and, to many, somewhat questionable) about using biography the way cults of the saints do.

I've inherited a family concern with St. Antony of Padua, although I probably express it a little differently than most of my predecessors.

01:29 / 10.04.07

Speaking of which, Peter Brown’s Cult of the Saints is a wonderful little book about how early Christians used relics. It isn’t by any means a list of Saints, but I highly recommend reading all the way through. Its slender and dense.

Unconditional Love

11:59 / 10.04.07

Ancient Christian Magic This might be worth picking up with regards to a christian magical practice in general, I will give it alook when i explore the mix between coptic and ancient egyptian, so its on my to read list.

But it might help to open up how a practice with saints can be greater explored in a magical fashion.

20:07 / 10.04.07

Here's an older topic about relics of the saints, just for your fun and edification. It has a post by me with pictures of St. Antony's incorrupt larynx.

20:17 / 10.04.07

Oh, and in case your first bits of reading about the saints haven't made it very clear, the whole saint-thing is one of the frayed edges of Catholic practice -- there's a fine line between praying for intercession (Oh, St. Joseph, tell God to help me sell my house) and praying to (Oh, St. Joseph, help me sell my house). The line is fine, but very important.

Some of the writings about the communion of saints seem very similar to ideas linked to bodhisattvas -- a community of once-human, now-divine beings who are somehow present after death and willing to intercede on our behalf with heavenly forces.

21:31 / 10.04.07

Thanks for the grant. That was actually one of my major concerns. Though I know worship of the saints is an official no-no, I wondered how often it happens anyway. I know with a lot of Catholic syncretism/folk magic it's really the saints rather than God who are being worshipped. I've been looking round a lot and I've seen a lot of catholic Catholics veering back and forth over the same line. Something to watch out for if Catholicism becomes my new practice.

I've realised that I actually want to know more about Catholicism than Saints. I think a saints topic will stand on it's own, so the Catholic thread is here

09:26 / 11.04.07

I am most familiar (which isn't say much) with Saint Jude - patron of Lost Causes. I went to Saint Jude's Episcopal Church growing up, and our relatively small congregation was joined periodically by the desperate and despairing who were looking for one last hope before giving up entirely. Suicidal, infertile, abused, dying, etc. etc. A fair few of them found the hope they sought. But then a fair few of them primarily needed a community of caring people to take their welfare seriously, so I suppose that's not per se miraculous. Still, I have a fair bit of respect for Saint Jude.

Saint Christopher - patron of travelers. My father used to go on many business trips, and wore an amulet of Saint Christopher for luck and safety. It seems as good an idea as any, eh?

Saint Francis of Assisi - patron of animals. Pets often have amulets of Saint Francis hanging from their collars. I recall an annual pet blessing day at my old church growing up. I don't know if it was held on his feast day. He was also the founder of the Franciscan monks, who are known for devoting themselves to lives of poverty. Mostly I know about him because San Francisco is named for him, and there are a lot of things named Saint Francis around here as a result.

Likewise Santa Clara Valley was named for Saint Clare of Assisi, who founded the Order of the Poor Ladies, (aka the Poor Clares).

--Ember--

21:29 / 19.04.07

St. Teresa of Avila rocks hard!

"Teresa felt that the best evidence that her delights came from God was that the experiences gave her peace, inspiration, and encouragement. "If these effects are not present I would greatly doubt that the raptures come from God; on the contrary I would fear lest they be caused by rabies."

""May God protect me from gloomy saints," Teresa said, and that's how she ran her convent. To her, spiritual life was an attitude of love, not a rule. Although she proclaimed poverty, she believed in work, not in begging. She believed in obedience to God more than penance. If you do something wrong, don't punish yourself -- change. When someone felt depressed, her advice was that she go some place where she could see the sky and take a walk. When someone was shocked that she was going to eat well, she answered, "There's a time for partridge and a time for penance." To her brother's wish to meditate on hell, she answered, "Don't." "

"St. Teresa's position among writers on mystical theology is unique. In all her writings on this subject she deals with her personal experiences, which a deep insight and analytical gifts enabled her to explain clearly...She is intensely personal, her system going exactly as far as her experiences, but not a step further."

Quotes 1 and 3 make me thin of her as the kind of Saint who would dig Barbelith.

19:07 / 10.10.07

Not much to add, just wanted to show people this gallery of found Madonna (Blessed Virgin, not "Like a Virgin") images.

CLick here for beautiful art.