BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Baby Seals for XK

 
  

Page: 1(2)3

 
 
Ticker
18:09 / 09.04.07
Keggers, I think that seal is telepathicly telling me something.....
 
 
Saint Keggers
18:55 / 09.04.07
I think it's saying, "Yo quiero Taco Bell"
 
 
Ticker
15:11 / 16.04.07
I can't bring myself to go look at the images of this years hunt. I know I should, I know I need to witness those images, but clicking the slidesow button is just slightly beyond me at the moment.

International outrage has also found its footing. The United States, Belgium, Croatia, Panama, and Mexico have all banned products made from seals. Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands are considering bans. And the European Parliament has called for a full EU ban on harp and hooded seal products.

Dude, WTF is up with the US being ahead of anyone else on a ban for humane reasons? Ok I feel lsightly less scumy as a world citizen and an American.

Also back on the Native people's right to hunt:

5) You guys (opposing the seal hunt) aren't against native peoples surving and subsisting off seals, are you? What gives?
A: There are few indigenous peoples involved in the commercial seal "hunt". Inuit or Native people in the North hunt mostly in the arctic and primarily ringed seals. Most of the sealers in the Gulf of St.Lawrence are residents of the Magdalen Islands of Quebec. These are French speaking people. Most of the sealers of the Newfoundland Front are descendents of the European immigrants.

There are about 4500 Inuit in Newfoundland. However, the original Newfoundlanders, the Beothuk, were driven into extinction by the European immigrants. The last member of the Beothuk nation died in 1912. The Newfoundlanders had a bounty on the Beothuk and most were slain by MicMac Indian bounty hunters from New Brunswick and Quebec. Newfoundlanders also drove the Newfoundland wolf, the walrus, and the Labrador duck to extinction and extirpated the polar bear, and the pilot whale from Newfoundland territory....

9) There's a war going on and other animal species going exctinct all around the world. Why should I care about Canadian seals?
A: There is always a war going on someplace. People are continually fighting amongst themselves. There is also another war going on and that is the war against nature and against wildlife. All marine mammals are faced with extinction because of hunting, pollution and destruction of habitat and carrying capacity. There is no justification for waging this, the world's second largest slaughter of a mammalian species (second only to the Kangaroo, in Australia) and the largest slaughter of any marine mammals.

In addition the hunt is cruel, vanity and greed driven by luxury, (pelts), economically wasteful, propped up by subsidies and bolstered by propaganda.


from www.harpseals.org

Still can't click the link to the slideshow yet. There's something surreal about my expectations of the word 'slideshow' always being tied to something I want to look at.

Ung.
 
 
Ticker
15:15 / 16.04.07
Q&A pretty much answers all my questions about the hunt
 
 
Pooky Is Just My Pornstar Name
16:28 / 16.04.07
Thanks for creating this topic, XK. I've signed the petition, am boycotting Cdn seafood, and have forwarded the info from your links to various friends and colleagues. I know of at least two people that have signed the petition and are now boycotting Cdn seafood too.

Here's a pic of a Happy Seal so you don't want to go all explody.

 
 
Ticker
16:45 / 16.04.07
Pooky, you're teh awesome! (as is the lovely pic, thank you!)
 
 
Papess
17:05 / 16.04.07
That information is very misleading, XK. The Beothuk are not the only aboriginal people who engage in seal hunting. Many other First Nation people have since moved there. Those "french-speaking people" may have some ancestry from BOTH aboriginal tribes AND Europeon ancestry. Those industries, well, there is also a possibility that some of the "industry" mentioned, is actually owned by aboriginals. There is not much up there to live on. What is the obsession of taking away what little these people have to survive on especially, from a culture where whacking snakes and trophy hunting is acceptable?
 
 
Papess
17:12 / 16.04.07
There are over 45,000 Inuit in Canada. Minimizing the numbers to just those that live in Newfoundland is misleading if we want to compare that to seal kills.
 
 
Papess
17:36 / 16.04.07
7) If polls show that the majority of Canadian citizens are against the hunt, why don't they just stop it with a vote?
A: The Canadian Department of Fisheries and Oceans is a bureaucracy run primarily by Newfoundlanders. They set the policy. Politicians have basically rubber-stamped the wishes of the bureaucrats. Most of the Fisheries Ministers have hailed from Newfoundland.


That is just not true.
 
 
Ticker
17:37 / 16.04.07
'Trix, everything I'm reading seems to be advocating *only* the native people's hunting of the seals and *not* commercial hunting. AFAIK from reading these articles if all infant seal hunting for fur was banned it would not affect the economic or sustainable hunts of the Inuit, who hunt the adults.

It appears, and please correct me, the Native people primarily hunt the ringer seal and not the harp seal and do not as a general rule hunt the pups but only the adult animals.

If you would like to discuss the rights of Indigenous people and conflicts over animal rights in a new thread I'd be happy to follow you over there.

I am not seeing a conflict in relation to banning seal hunting for fur harvested from pups and preserving the rights of Indigenous people but I do think it's a bigger global topic and would be best served in a wider context.
 
 
Papess
17:45 / 16.04.07
It should be discussed, because a lot of the "facts" are given on these sites are without proper context or are just outright lies. I don't think it is a good idea to be taking them for truth. I don;t have a problem with Inuit commercializing for profit either.
 
 
Tsuga
01:37 / 17.04.07
Personally, I have a problem with anyone commercializing some things for profit.
It's tough, though. I want to respect cultures I don't totally understand and whose practices I may sometimes disagree with. It's hard to say to someone living in a harsh place without a shit ton of options that they shouldn't do something for themselves, their family, or their community.
The lines aren't always crisp and
____________________________________________________

delineated nicely.

I certainly don't know enough to have a truly informed opinion, either. I realize that.
But, still. Some things just suck.

Oh, and:
 
 
penitentvandal
07:08 / 17.04.07
Dude, WTF is up with the US being ahead of anyone else on a ban for humane reasons?

CLUE: Which country is responsible for the seal-culling?
 
 
Ticker
13:49 / 17.04.07
VeVe: are you saying we get off our butts to hassle the Canadians? Huh. I thought maybe it was we couldn't resist Bridgette Bardot...


Anyway to return to the land of serious...
The following is very stream of consciousness and I invite critique of my process. I am not trying to present a solid argument but rather how I am arriving at my conclusion.

'Trix I spent a good chunk of last night considering what you are saying.
I agree much of the anti-hunt data is skewed and am certainly willing to look for less biased info. However the one report linked upthread about the cruelty of the vivasection-like live skinning confirmed by third party autopsy report doesn't appear to me to biased.

As it appears you would like to address the rights of Indigenous people to hunt in this thread I felt the need to focus down to this specific hunt rather than review the entirity of the global issue.

That said, Tsuga's comments above also resonated with me in my consideration of how to address your viewpoint.

I personally value all life equally across species lines and while obviously I hold those in my immediate circle of greater importance to my own happiness I do not believe any of them or myself has a greater claim to life than any other being. Right, well we kill by involvement in the food production process, in the development of our society's infrastructure, and the numerous human conflicts not to mention the animal/human environment/human conflicts.

I'm trying to avoid the romanticism of the noble savage when I say that not all cultures kill thoughtlessly or without respect but honor the lives being taken. I understand that this is not some universal pre Western state of the world garden of eden but a construct of idealism.

In my construct the killing of any being for survival is balanced out with humane methods. I believe there is enough suffering inherent in the difficulties present to each of us to motivate us not to add to the burden of others. This sets me up to consider the suffering of roughly 350,000 seal pups annually against the suffering of the humans who require this harvest for a cash crop to go about their own survival.

I find that in reviewing the human ability to adapt much faster for survival than the seal I cannot accept that the humans involved depend absolutely on this harvest for survival in the manner it is currently performed. I do however believe the reports of enviormental change threatening the seals on a much broader scale. So on one hand I'm considering human suffering economically and seals suffering physically and on the other hand species over all survival rates.

Simply put I cannot accept any reason for vivasection or accidental vivasection or potential vivasection of another species. That the motivation for killing the young of a species already threatened by our actions on a global level is their fur, clearly a vaniety item for the majority of consumers, is repugnant and it does not seem to me to deprive the users of anything of essential value.

Allow me as an ominvore to address the issue of right to kill and eat other animals. I do not believe we have the right to promote suffering and in fact have a moral obligation to prevent it. We have at our disposal the means to end both human and animal (and plant) suffering on a grand scale and yet stubbornly refuse to change the way we do things. It's an overwhelming shift in collective behavior that is absolutely essential for our collective survival.

For myself I see one line of that change being firmly drawn at consuming only humanely raised and slaughtered animal products and giving up all non essential luxury items which promote suffering. I find in my heart no acceptable justification for killing a large portion of another species' infant population let alone how it is currently performed. I do not believe we have the right to box veal calves and I do not believe we have the right to club seal pups. We most certainly have no right to potentially skin them alive.

Perhaps my ideal construct and romanticism of Indigenous people is showing when I say I do not believe they use these methods or hunt these seal pups. However as Tsuga stated some things are simply not acceptable by anyone ever. I believe inhumanely killing a seal pup for its fur falls into this category.
 
 
Cailín
14:12 / 17.04.07
XK, I urge you to go to this link and read its contents in their entirety.

I was going to put up a lengthy post about the errors of assumptions, the twisting of the facts, and the inability of those outside my country to fully comprehend the situation, but, frankly, I am far too angry about the nonsense and misinformation I am reading in this thread to be as articulate as I'd like to be at the moment. Maybe I'll post later, when I am calmer, or maybe I'll just let it go, since my arguments are the same arguments my government has been making to the rest of the world for decades.

My Canada includes the seal hunt.
 
 
Ticker
15:19 / 17.04.07
Cailín thanks for posting the link. I hope you can put aside your anger and express yourself here productively. I'm hoping to be educated as part of this process and discuss these things with people with the goal of figureing out what is propaganda and what is not.

I'm hoping you've read the links posted upthread challenging the Canadian government's assertions.

I'm not clear on what's really happening and what's not. I'm not even sure if we can figure that out on a message board. However I do hope we can productively share information.

Perhaps the best we can hope for is to provide each other with as many sources of information as possible so we can each make up our own minds on the issue.

Possible propaganda or fact: WARNING GRAPHIC
Humane society's slideshow on the current seal hunt

Seal Hunt Enforcement Officers Turn a Blind Eye to Sealers Violating Regulations, Attempt to Stop HSUS' Documentation

Cailín, Justrix, other people with other viewpoints than my own:

I am willing to review whatever data you would like me to look at in a respectful manner and I hope you will review what I post in the same manner.

This is a heated emotional topic for many of us. My hope is we can express our ideas and beliefs while treating advocates of other points of view with respect.
 
 
Papess
15:39 / 17.04.07
I'm not clear on what's really happening and what's not. I'm not even sure if we can figure that out on a message board. However I do hope we can productively share information.

I am not certain either, but as I said earlier, most likely the truth is somewhere in the middle. We do need information to figure out where that middle could possibly be, and to consider all issues, including that of culture and socio-economic viability, balanced against our prejudices and emotional biases.

I do understand your outrage, XK, but I am glad you are willing to have discussion about this to understand the matter. I would like to understand it better than I do, as well.

The Canadian Outdoor Heritage Alliance from 2005. There are too many issues to this situation to be just considering one perspective.

I would also like to link to this theological analysis on factory farming. I am not a christian, but there are some interesting insights from the author, Suzanne Woolston of Boston University. It might also put some perspective on the seal hunt issue, by comparison.

In the mean time, I think I am going vegetarian again.
 
 
Ticker
17:08 / 17.04.07
Ok so,

In reading the articles 'Trix posted I've pulled out a few pieces that I think we overlap on;

The lethal factor our current and ongoing animal holocaust in America is deceptively simple: economics. Greater profits can be realized by increasing the number of animals living per square foot in any given farm space, as well as an increased speed at the time of slaughter and processing. Compassion is costly, in both time and space. Compassion therefore, is a luxury. This truth should be sobering: our capitalist system is a powerful tsunami, a sweeping wave of undeniable momentum. Would-be ethical impulses for good are overcome, covered over, and swept away by the great pounding of an incessant rationalization: how much return on the investment per square head? for the corporations, and how much will it cost me to feed my family this week? for the general public. Cruelty is cheap, in dollar terms, but is costly in the currency of human culpability.

All living organisms require food to sustain their life. Within that absolute, human beings must grasp with compassion the nuanced complexity of interdependence: the use of animal protein for sustenance does not require the brazen cruelty of factory farming. Alternatives to factory farming must be sought out. This may involve using biotechnologies to mass-produce non-animal protein for human consumption (see David Pearce, "The Hedonistic Imperative").


I think we agree factory farming is evil and needs to be addressed. However I'm not seeing how that fact cancels out the issue of the seal hunt. I feel fairly confident that I have addressed it in step with my views as an omnivore.

If we start with the premise that the entire way our culture interacts with animals for food and by products is wrong, how does that rule out the inhumane conditions of the seal hunt?

"This is another example of those who neither understand nor respect
proper wildlife management getting involved in matters best left to
trained biologists who make their decisions based on scientific studies
and biological truths," McQuay concluded. "The seal hunt is closely
monitored and tightly regulated. Sealers are well-trained in humane
hunting methods and are, as a group, responsible and law abiding. COHA
has nothing but respect for the sealers and their right to earn a living
without being harassed by those who have little understanding of the real
world."


Okay let's ask the biologists and sealers. I suspect we will find a wide range of opinions there as well.

Warning issued
The Telegram (St. John's)
Mon 22 Jan 2007
Page: A1
Section: Front
Byline: Rosie Gillingham
Source:


"If sealers continue to harvest at the same rates over the next few years, it could spell trouble for the herd population, according to the Department of Fisheries and Oceans' leading marine mammal scientist."

Poor ice conditions have had a big impact on the mortality rate, Stenson said. It has resulted in the deaths of many pups, which have drowned..

"You start getting to the point where there's fewer young coming in. It's kind of like our rural communities in Newfoundland - the young just aren't there," said Stenson, a biology professor at Memorial University and member of the committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada marine mammal subcommittee.

"And when it really has an impact is when those young should be there to breed, which happens (in seals), on average, at around five years of age."

Other causes of mortality include struck and loss - in which sealers shoot and kill the animal but are unable to retrieve it - and fishing gear catches, in which young harp seals are caught in fishermen's gear while they catching lump fish in the spring.

Stenson said for the commercial hunt, scientists estimate a between two and five per cent loss due to struck and loss. However, he said scientists apply a 50 per cent loss in the Arctic, where data is collected and recorded in varying ways. Seals in the Arctic and Greenland, he said, are also often shot in open waters. When compiling a population model, the seals in the Arctic and Greenland are included since they are from the same population, which is migratory.


DFO mismanagement

Economic alternatices to killing

BRUSHING SEALS FOR THEIR FUR:
As might easily be imagined, baby Harp seals have some of the most amazingly insulative fur on the planet. Each individual hair follicle of their famous "white coats" is hollow, keeping the babies warm and happy in the subzero temperatures. As the babies continue through their stages of growth, they begin to molt and lose this outer layer of super insulative hair. This is when they can be easily brushed and the hair collected for bedding and other applications. Paul Watson and the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society has attempted on multiple occasions to introduce this idea to the world, and more importantly, to the Canadian sealers themselves. Although the money offered to the sealers for each brushed seal was MORE THAN THE SUBSIDY OF AN UNWANTED PELT, the idea was rejected time after time.

The sealers reasoning for rejection? As one sealer put it in 1999 in the Magdelein Islands, "Seals are meant to be clubbed, not brushed. We dont want nothing to do with no faggoty idea like that". (yes, an another amazing yet actual documented quote caught by the media)
 
 
Papess
13:17 / 18.04.07
I think we agree factory farming is evil and needs to be addressed. However I'm not seeing how that fact cancels out the issue of the seal hunt. I feel fairly confident that I have addressed it in step with my views as an omnivore.

This is where it gets tricky, as I understand it. I stress, this is only my understanding. This is the tricky part, because this is where we have a cultural issue. The hunt consists primarily of Inuit, or at the very least, is originally a part of their way of life. A culture and people who are struggling with a destructive, inharmonious culture brought by European settlers. These settlers are the ones who are creating the industries which puts the Inuit culture and the environment at risk, and yet, it is the Inuit who have to pay the price for it? Who are we, to take one of the few opportunities they have and impose "our" (as a European descendant myself), supposed set of "ethics" upon them? It is "our ethics", our culture as settlers, which causes the devastation of their culture AND their environment, and we are imposing OUR ethics on them?

I know it is terrible. Killing and violence is deplorable. But, for our society to be so hypocritical and simultaneously, take another brick out of this culture rendering their lives even more unsustainable, leading to further suicides and cultural decay...I just find it hypocritical that white-euro ethics (a lot of which, or lack of which, is causing environmental catastrophe) are campaigned against these people, and the little corner "our lifestyle(s)" has painted them in already. I imagine from their perspective (to stretch the metaphor further) it is like asking them to levitate while we paint underneath them with the same ethical brush we have painted the rest of North America with.
 
 
Ticker
14:05 / 18.04.07
The hunt consists primarily of Inuit, or at the very least, is originally a part of their way of life.

I'm not sure I agree that this commercial hunt that is happening now has any direct relation to the hunt of the Inuit.

My research into Inuit hunting methods seem to indicate a profoundly different set of methods and ethics. Again I'm trying to avoid overly romanticizing the Native people.


A common theme in Inuit art is the depiction of traditional hunting practices. Many prints are careful records of the old ways of catching game. While many Inuit still obtain part of their diet from caribou or seal, with the appearance of new technologies from the South, old methods, such as hunting with kayaks, spears and seal skin floats, are now rare. As Paulosie Sivuak of Puvungnituk commented in a letter featured in a 1968 Inuit Art Centre catalogue, “It is very true that the Eskimos used spears or harpoons, bows and arrows before guns were brought up to their native lands.” But he then goes on to state, “…do not forget that the Eskimos have changed their life. They don’t wear skin clothes or live in igloos now. They are changing to white man’s ways presently.”


the above is from Inuit hunting art article

So, I don't believe I am being critical of Inuit hunting methods specifically but rather the massive modern commercial hunt for fur products *not primarily used for food*.

If the biologist working for the Canadian government I quote upthread is correct and the seal population is showing signs of depletion why should anyone be allowed to hunt them for a non essential luxury item?

If the issue is the abuse or mistreatment of Native people why not suspend all non Native hunting and cease the commercial sale of seal fur?

there are many sites listing the historic ethnic rituals of the Inuit around the seal hunt. again and again proper treatment of the animal is cited as an essential aspect of their hunt. This includes placing fresh water in the mouth of the animal and even:

Some Inuit believed that the spirit of a seal would be offended if killed by an undecorated harpoon.

So ethically I think we are talking about a eurocentric commerical hunt for fur that works at high speeds to slaughter as many seal pups as possible and often leaves the meat unused at the site of the skinning. The act of killing is performed as quickly as possible so the next animal can be caught. There appears to be no time alloted to determine if the animal is even actually dead before the skinning begins because of the demands of the clock.
 
 
Quantum
14:49 / 18.04.07
Interesting aside on Inuit livelihood here
 
 
Papess
14:50 / 18.04.07
If the biologist working for the Canadian government I quote upthread is correct and the seal population is showing signs of depletion why should anyone be allowed to hunt them for a non essential luxury item?

The reason for the depletion is environmental, caused by euro-ethics, not the seal hunt. Although, it is a good point that no one should really be allowed to hunt them because of that, but the weight of that responsibility should not be for these people to bear.

If the issue is the abuse or mistreatment of Native people why not suspend all non Native hunting and cease the commercial sale of seal fur?\

I am not sure. I imagine it is because Inuit hunter deserve the right to commercialize. Why would we have two standards?

Some Inuit believed that the spirit of a seal would be offended if killed by an undecorated harpoon.

This is not an issue of ritual and culture, per se. It is the very survival of these people, which I don't think can be comprehended fully, unless one spends time north of 40;deg , which is at stake here. Cutting them out of a marketplace only further impoverishes them and their ability to function as a people. Confining them to quaint aesthetics, while marginalizing their very survival is an issue is hardly fair. Their actual culture has been trashed, and ethically, I don't think any government can justify holding the lives of these particular animals over the lives of the people. Unless, it is all based on aesthetics.

So ethically I think we are talking about a eurocentric commerical hunt for fur that works at high speeds to slaughter as many seal pups as possible and often leaves the meat unused at the site of the skinning.

The hunt is a part of Inuit culture and currently, helps sustain their lives - not their way of life, but their lives. For example: Medicine and medical equipment, which is controlled in this country, has to be purchased at a great cost to communities. We cannot expect Inuit to completely function outside the structure we impose on them. If they make money from selling the resources available to them, how can I impose idealistic ethics upon them? Standards are set and followed as closely as possible to make seal hunting a sustainable resource, is that not good enough?

The act of killing is performed as quickly as possible so the next animal can be caught.

The act of killing should be done more slowly then?

There appears to be no time alloted to determine if the animal is even actually dead before the skinning begins because of the demands of the clock.

Where does this come from? It is a depiction of a killing machine that is a bit questionable. Demands of the clock? The hunting season? Like any other hunting season, I suppose.
 
 
Ticker
15:39 / 18.04.07
Er, Justrix I'm having the distinct impression that you haven't been reading the links I've posted which explain the speed of the hunt and how it is performed. It is not a season it is a few weeks -even days- when the pups are still young enough to be on the ice but beginning to change their coats. Plus the speed of the kill is so the animals do not escape into the water. If the hunter is rushing onto to the next animal they are not taking the time to ensure a proper kill. The Humane society is listing several violations of hunting procedure due to recklessness on the part of the hunters.

As for Inuit's value over the seals I can only say that allowing a society to hunt an animal in this monsterous manner for a luxury item does not encourage me to think it gives a damn about anything except profit. If profit is the holy grail then surely the Inuit are likely to be (and have been) on the extermination list along with the seals.

Again the Inuit account for 3% of the annual hunt. As a note the Wiki is showing signs of vandalisim so YMMV.
 
 
Red Concrete
08:30 / 19.04.07
Has anyone else noticed that around 100 seal-hunter boats have been trapped by ice, are running our of food and fuel, and the coast guard is having to rescue them?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:37 / 19.04.07
Just came here to post that, actually. I must admit, I know you're not supposed to take pleasure in the misfortunes of others, and I've never been a great believer in karma, but... maybe just this once I might make an exception?
 
 
Papess
13:38 / 19.04.07
Mum's pretty reliable about these things.
 
 
Ticker
13:49 / 19.04.07
Whoa. Big Fat Scary Whoa.

Well I hope everyone gets out ok.

It does remind you why the Ocean has been feared and treated with respect by so many people for so long. Perhaps it is only under the influence of our culture's current state of technological hubris that we often overlook these potential dire events.
 
 
Cailín
14:44 / 19.04.07
As for Inuit's value over the seals I can only say that allowing a society to hunt an animal in this monsterous manner for a luxury item does not encourage me to think it gives a damn about anything except profit.

They've been hunting with these tools for 4000 years. Who are you to criticize techniques that have been perfected over thousand of years? And if you had any idea how most of the Inuit actually live, you'd know the word "profit" doesn't get much play in their vocabulary.

Whether seal is a luxury item is completely open to debate. The fur is used by the Inuit for clothing - because it's bloody cold where they live. If the fur also lands in places where it is a luxury item - well, I'd sooner wear wild seal fur than farmed mink. The meat is packaged for human and animal consumption. The oils are used for medicine and industry. This isn't just a luxury fashion item. I know it's easier to focus on the pelts, because that's what the anti-hunt literature puts out there, but there are far more uses for seal than fashion.

And, just as an aside, but something I think is worth examining, fishermen hunt seal in the winter to offset the period of the year when they have no income. There aren't a lot of options for temporary work in that part of the country for that season. These aren't corporate masterminds, just guys who catch fish for a living, most of whom don't have a whole lot of education or training to do anything but fish and hunt. If you deny them the hunt (white guys have been participating in the hunt for several generations), how are they supposed to feed their families? And don't say welfare, because, really, that is not an answer to anything.
 
 
Ticker
15:00 / 19.04.07

They've been hunting with these tools for 4000 years. Who are you to criticize techniques that have been perfected over thousand of years? And if you had any idea how most of the Inuit actually live, you'd know the word "profit" doesn't get much play in their vocabulary.


Er, that's not what the Inuit say about their own hunt if you read the posts upthread.

Also in the last few posts I've tried to present that the Inuit hunt consists of 3% of this particular harp seal hunt.

There aren't a lot of options for temporary work in that part of the country for that season. These aren't corporate masterminds, just guys who catch fish for a living, most of whom don't have a whole lot of education or training to do anything but fish and hunt. If you deny them the hunt (white guys have been participating in the hunt for several generations), how are they supposed to feed their families? And don't say welfare, because, really, that is not an answer to anything.

Did you follow the links upthread about suggestions made to harvest the seal fur via brushing the seals? Or tourism? Fisher people are experts on the area surely they would be qualified tourguides?

Cailín, I'm having a hard time believing you're reading the other posts in this thread throughly.
 
 
Ticker
15:18 / 19.04.07
Please read this BBC article from 2006
 
 
Cailín
17:08 / 19.04.07
Er, that's not what the Inuit say about their own hunt if you read the posts upthread.
“…do not forget that the Eskimos have changed their life. They don’t wear skin clothes or live in igloos now. They are changing to white man’s ways presently.”
Is that the one you mean? The isolated quote from 1968, found in an art exhibit at Carlton University? If there's something in this that I'm missing, please, enlighten me. The Inuit still harpoon seal, although, I am willing to admit, this practice is far more common in the Arctic than along the Atlantic. But the practice is not gone. Atlantic hunters primarily use rifles - even more likely to kill instantly than a harpoon.

As for tourism: are you shitting me? Tourist season on the east coast is summer, because the weather is pretty rough the rest of the year. Funny, fishing season runs all summer too. So, these ideal tourguides, the fishermen, are already working six days a week when they could be operating these tours. Not to mention that there are far too many potential guides to be employed by the limited number of tourists who head through the area each year. (There has been a big push to increase tourism in Newfoundland, with limited success.) This suggestion does not address the economic situation at all. They need income in the winter, particularly at the end of the winter, when their summer and autumn earnings run dry.

Combing a seal does not extract the meat and oil also sold as a result of the hunt. Ergo, less income, fewer products (seal oil is a fantastic source of Omega-3 fatty acids, which aid in development and maintenance of the brain, eyes and nerves).

I took a look at the BBC article above. Canada was offered $16 million to stop the seal hunt in 2006. The hunt brought in $33 million in 2006. Hmm... Perhaps that less-than-adequate offer was made with the intention of failing to add fuel to the fire?

Cailín, I'm having a hard time believing you're reading the other posts in this thread throughly.
I'm reading, and taking a lot of what I read with a grain of salt. I trust Fisheries and Oceans Canada with their facts over the Humane Society of the United States. An interesting link about what the HSUS actually does with its money.

If you're so concerned about animal rights, there is a beartrap issue currently getting coverage in New Hampshire. Maybe it makes more sense to put your energies into fixing the abuses in your own country before pointing fingers at other nations, where you obviously don't understand the issues, the people, the culture or the climate.
 
 
Ticker
17:40 / 19.04.07
If you're so concerned about animal rights, there is a beartrap issue currently getting coverage in New Hampshire. Maybe it makes more sense to put your energies into fixing the abuses in your own country before pointing fingers at other nations, where you obviously don't understand the issues, the people, the culture or the climate.

I find this a disrespectful attack on me personally when I have only offered you the utmost respect in this discussion. First you are assuming I am not already involved in these issues. Secondly you are assuming that this is not a global issue, a stance I personaly find to be ridiculous considering that Canada exports the majority of seal products and the environmental concerns on this planet.

If you had been reading my posts you would have read my polite request to share information and mutually educate people reading this thread. I am more than happy to support you presenting your insights and perceptions but only if you can do so productively.

Making assumptions about other people particpating in this thread and attacking them does not position your arguments in the best light. Providing actual data does.

The link you provided in your last post does not seem to be working for me, can you provide another?


Perhaps these orgs are abusing people and taking their money for nothing. Instead of being hostile towards me how about researching that angle more deeply?
 
 
Quantum
17:45 / 19.04.07
(seal oil is a fantastic source of Omega-3 fatty acids, which aid in development and maintenance of the brain, eyes and nerves).

Human flesh is a fantastic source of nutrients and protein. Doesn't mean I can nip into a nursery and cosh as many children as quickly as possible before they escape, does it. Even if it's my job.
To address Justrix, I personally would be delighted if hunting were restricted only to the Inuit, that would be a relatively huge success.

This reminds me of the whaling issue rather a lot. You say that the fisherman are already working a six day week? Why don't they guide tours for those days and earn more money and let the seals live? You can shoot a baby seal with a camera more than once.
 
 
Quantum
17:47 / 19.04.07
you obviously don't understand the issues, the people, the culture or the climate.

That does read to me like an unnecessary, condescending personal attack too.
 
 
Ticker
17:55 / 19.04.07
Sea Sheperd article

It is also a fact that the anti-sealing movement has been led by Canadians and not by foreigners. Rebecca Aldworth of the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) is a Newfoundlander. Brian Davies, the founder of International Fund for Animal Welfare (IFAW), was from Fredericton, New Brunswick. Dr. David Lavigne is from Guelph, Ontario, Farley Mowat is from Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, and I am from St. Andrew’s, New Brunswick. What we have all done was reach out to the world for support to end an obscene atrocity in our own nation and the world has responded.

As a Canadian, I find the seal slaughter to be the greatest blemish to ever smear the maple leaf flag. It is a disgrace and an abomination. We will end it in the name of humanity and it will be done because we have the support of the international public and the seal killers do not.
 
  

Page: 1(2)3

 
  
Add Your Reply