BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Science of Sleep

 
 
Sibelian 2.0
16:05 / 13.03.07

Saw this recently, having been a fan of Gondry since his awfully clever Cibo Mato video. I liked it lots, but then I'm very forgiving of meandering plots, wacky characters and anything that smacks of invention. These days any attempt at anything different is such a breath of fresh air in comparison with the ubiquitous corporate-plotted CGI infested turds that are clogging up the multiplexes that I sit in breathless joy before even slightly limp, fragile little orchids like this film (anyhow, I have a fondness for actual limp fragile orchids). One of my pals hated the main character and thought he was a whiny git and my SO hated the girl cos she was cold and stand-offish.

But I am a hopeless romantic, and thought it was cute.

What about you?
 
 
Twig the Wonder Kid
16:48 / 13.03.07
Mark Kermode's review of this really pissed me off, in that he didn't like it because it lacked the structure of Eternal Sunshine, yet a week later he was singing the praises of the utterly formless anti-narrative of INLAND EMPIRE. I.e. it's okay for Lynch, but not for Gondry.

Gondry is one of the most inventive film makers around. I'm yet to see anything of his that I didn't like. And this film I thought was particularly good because it was just so damn ... charming.

The characters are just so obviously meant to be together - simply because they were both as stupid and pathetic as each other. This is what made us care.

It's only a matter of time before Gondry gets offered a huge sci-fi summer blockbuster.
 
 
Sibelian 2.0
18:04 / 13.03.07

It's only a matter of time before Gondry gets offered a huge sci-fi summer blockbuster.

This gives me mild shudders. I'd much rather he concentrated on the whimsical, introspective stuff. Even his music videos are very gentle and personal, really, and I couldn't see him taking on anything requiring the currently fashionable levels of gore and interpersonal ugliness that characterises the modern blockbusters of *any* flavour without screwing it up.

It might be okay if it was a comic adaptation but I'm not at all sure which one.

Sorry, this is thread-rot, isn't it?
 
 
Spaniel
19:18 / 13.03.07
Well while I haven't seen Science of Sleep (want to!) I think it's not necessarily unreasonable to complain about lack of structure in one instance, and sing its praises in another. Some films needs more structure than they have, some need less.

I'm sure you know all this, but it's worth saying.
 
 
Twig the Wonder Kid
19:38 / 13.03.07
Yeah Boboss, but in both the films in question the structure, or lack of it, was appropriate and effective.

The next Gondry film sounds interesting, Be Kind Rewind - "A man (Jack Black) whose brain becomes magnetized unintentionally destroys every tape in his friend's video store. In order to satisfy the store's most loyal renter, an aging woman with signs of dementia, the two men set out to remake the lost films, which include Back to the Future, The Lion King, and Robocop."
 
 
symbiosis
20:07 / 13.03.07
I saw Science of Sleep a couple weeks ago. While I was watching it, I hated it. It blurred the lines between conscious and unconscious behavior, some scenes are intentionally not meant to be clearly one or the other. This is very creative and it was well executed.

At times it reminded me of cheezy romantic comedies where the male lead is allowed to stalk and say mean things, while the female lead continually gives him the benefit of the doubt only for the sake of the plot. In the real world, women, of course, do not do this and are, in fact, cruel in these scenarios.

However, after I spent most of the movie thinking that the writing was lazy on this account, the last scene pulled it together for me. The guy was saying things to the girl, obviously unfiltered subconsciousness, and it was like they were sharing a dream using reality.

The whole movie was more like a premonition, who knows what happened. Although as such the plot becomes less important, the feeling the movie left me with reminded me of my own dreams and was my first experience in art of the sensation I actually have when I'm in my dreams, saying or doing natural, yet stupid, things.

Ultimately this reminded me of The Idiots, which is another movie I hated most of the way through but then finally began loving it in the last ten minutes. I think there are definite parallels between these movies.

The horse was an exceptional idea. The foam room/inner head concept, with dream pot and dual cameras was also really well concieved and executed. The lead actors voice was perfect, hypnotic.

I did wish the hot next door neighbor who put up with him would have been more eccentric, she wasn't convincing, from the writing, as someone who would accept the guy.

I highly recommend it, but don't take an indie film newbie to it and make sure you are well rested.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:04 / 14.03.07
The Science of Sleep is, in the end, a film about a guy who isn't just highly socially maladjusted, but actively delusional, and a woman who tried to have some kind of friendship with him in spite of his stalkerish behaviour. Anyone who thinks it's a romance or that the two lead characters are meant to be together needs help themselves, frankly.
 
 
Twig the Wonder Kid
09:15 / 14.03.07
Well cheers Flyboy. Thing is, I don't think you can really say Charlotte Gainsberg's character was a particularly good catch for anyone who isn't socially maladjusted and actively delusional.
 
 
Spaniel
14:59 / 14.03.07
(v.excited about Be Kind Rewind. Would be lovely to get the cinema now and then so I could actually join in one of these discussions. Arses)
 
 
nighthawk
15:15 / 14.03.07
Thing is, I don't think you can really say Charlotte Gainsberg's character was a particularly good catch for anyone who isn't socially maladjusted and actively delusional.

Why?! From the little characterisation she gets, I don't see why anyone would think her stupid or pathetic...
 
 
CameronStewart
15:36 / 14.03.07
Gondry is one of my very favourite creative people in the world, I was thrilled to get the chance to (very briefly) meet him a few years ago, I've watched the Director's Label music video compilation so many times it's a wonder I haven't burned a hole through it, I love Eternal Sunshine and even the much-maligned Human Nature.

My girlfriend is similarly enamoured of Gondry and we were hugely excited to see The Science of Sleep. We left the theatre considerably less excited. We felt vaguely sad, having just seen the first major disappointment from an artist we both really enjoy. I thought the story meandered, was largely a less effective retread of his previous work, the characters were fairly unlikeable, and the little childlike animated bits that usually work so well in small doses in his music clips seemed repetitive and tiresome here. Maybe I have to give it a second shot but I remember that horrible feeling of disappointment as we walked silently out of the theatre and I'm not in any rush to experience it again.

Something interesting about Be Kind, Rewind: for all the recreations of movies that will appear in the film, Gondry instructed everyone in the cast and crew to NOT go back and watch the originals, so all the costumes, sets, and dialogue will be based solely on their memories of the movies. Which has the potential to be really, really funny, I think.
 
 
nighthawk
16:07 / 14.03.07
I thought the story meandered, was largely a less effective retread of his previous work, the characters were fairly unlikeable, and the little childlike animated bits that usually work so well in small doses in his music clips seemed repetitive and tiresome here.

This was pretty much my reaction. I enjoy Gondry's visual inventiveness to a point, but its not enough to hold together a feature length film. By the end it all just seemed a bit self-indulgent and flabby.
 
 
Sibelian 2.0
16:47 / 14.03.07
Why?! From the little characterisation she gets, I don't see why anyone would think her stupid or pathetic...

I agree. I actively liked her. I thought she managed him reasonably well considering his great strangeness. I read her rather slight characterisation as ordinary groundedness, and I decided this was one of the things attracting him to her.
 
 
PatrickMM
03:06 / 15.03.07
I thought her characterization was fairly consistent, and worked well with the themes of the film. She was at first enchanted with Stephane, and his potential for creativity, reflecting some of what she wanted herself to be. The scene where they're making the diorama, and he throws the clouds in the air, is just full of joy and shows why she might like him.

But, his neuroses gradually overwhelm her and prevent them from having any sort of real relationship. The painful scene for me is when Stephane sees her dancing with some guy and loses it, to the point that even when she agrees to meet him for coffee, he just can't get himself to go. In the end, she tells him why things can't work out, and his behavior only reaffirms that thinking.

The tough thing for me is that Stephane is so clearly an analogue of Gondry himself, and the film is so harsh on him. Not since Fosse's All That Jazz have I seen artist make such an elaborate tribute to his personal failings. I loved the film, and I think it got unjustly ignored upon its release. It's a really inventive and challenging work. I can certainly see why people found it disappointing though, it lacks the optimism present in a lot of Gondry's video work. There's fun stuff in there, but it's ultimately quite depressing.
 
 
haus of fraser
14:40 / 15.03.07
I really enjoyed the movie- am i the only one?

I got to see it a few weeks ago when he did the guardian interview at the NFT, I thought it was the first film he's made that joins the gap between his videos and his film work. From stop motion animation and giant hands to crazy knitted subplots i liked it.

I didn't enjoy it as much eternal sunshine but it had its own charm, I liked it a lot more than Human Nature.

While Flyboy may be right about the lead characters mental state, i enjoyed the childish fumblings around each other and the badly controlled moments of jelousy. While they were certainly extreme reactions these moments reminded me of being a teenager and nights of embarressment apologising for a friends bad behaviour- or the morning after the office party- did i really say "That" to my boss...

The biggest problem is that it doesn't go very far in terms of linear narrative its a tightly wound ball of jelousy that ends in frustration, but it has many beautiful distractions along the way.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:42 / 15.03.07
Oh, I enjoyed it, I thought it was ultimately quite provocative, and certainly stimulating in terms of the questions it raises (and not in some shitty Borat-style "ooh, provocative!" way). I can certainly see a lot of people interpreting the creativity of the protagonist as a justification for him. But it seems to me that the film ultimately doesn't accept that, and shows that being this kinda weirdo outsider isn't romantic and cool, it's crippling and dangerous. There's a definite disconnect in the film between content and tone, because while the tone is usually bordering on twee, the content often isn't.

I also really liked the representation of the kind of dreams we have which are pure id: the ones in which we destructively rule the world and fuck the co-workers we don't even like...
 
 
nighthawk
16:08 / 15.03.07
I can certainly see a lot of people interpreting the creativity of the protagonist as a justification for him. But it seems to me that the film ultimately doesn't accept that, and shows that being this kinda weirdo outsider isn't romantic and cool, it's crippling and dangerous.

Yes, and echoing what you said upthread, it also teases apart the notion that these two are 'made' for each other because of superficial similarities typical of scripted characters, like 'creativity' or 'weirdness'. Other films would have made this the root of their unconventional but brilliant romance, but these characters do their best to undermine such facile presentations of love and relationships.

I did enjoy parts of this film, and I definitely found it more stimulating than some of the uninspiring dross in the cinema at the moment (The Illusionist, anyone?), but overall I felt it lacked coherence, which is why it left me disappointed.
 
 
thewalker
23:42 / 15.03.07
It blurred the lines between conscious and unconscious behavior, some scenes are intentionally not meant to be clearly one or the other.

this i loved, but then i am a sucker for any time/reality stretching, reminded me of Terry Gilliam, a bit.
 
 
thewalker
23:44 / 15.03.07
Stephane is so clearly an analogue of Gondry himself

exactly what i thought, obvious from about three minutes into the film.

Any theories on the point of the ending? happy ever after? or.....
 
 
CameronStewart
00:56 / 16.03.07
...I think I have to watch this film again. You're all quite persuasive in your arguments.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:37 / 16.03.07
happy ever after?

No way! You know the bit in a hostage negotiation scene where the cop gets really close to the crazy guy with the gun and is just saying "just give me the gun... go on, that's it, just give me the gun" quietly and gently? That's kind of how I interpreted the end of the film, albeit that there's genuine affection there too (so let's say the crazy guy used to be the cop's partner, or something).
 
 
Sibelian 2.0
10:30 / 16.03.07

just give me the gun... go on, that's it, just give me the gun" quietly and gently?

Blimey. Well, that's certainly the last time *I* break into someone's house and fix their mechanical pony for them...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:32 / 16.03.07
Yes. Exactly. He BREAKS INTO HER HOUSE. I'm sorry, but if you think secretly breaking into a woman's house without her consent is a romantic gesture, evereverever, no matter how cutesy and charming and gentle and playful and twee your actions once you've broken in, you have serious problems, and had the film concluded any other way, it would have been a tool for enabling douchebags.
 
 
Sibelian 2.0
10:34 / 16.03.07

happy ever after?

Well, who knows? There's been so much blurring of reality and fiction that by the end we've no idea if the whole final sequence is a representation of his final massive mental breakdown or the end of his neurosis through finally getting the girl. She *has* participated in his mental meanderings quite happily before...

Or so we're led to believe...
 
 
Sibelian 2.0
10:58 / 16.03.07
Well, I don't think breaking into people's houses is a romantic gesture, no... but forgiving someone for doing so *might* be.

We're left with only very vague hints at the end. Clearly the riding off into the distance is all about him, but we can't be entirely sure what's pushing him towards this imagery, either he's given up on reality completely or he's been given permission, in some sense, perhaps by her gestures in the last "real world" scene, to engage with those images in a validated way, i.e., through her deciding she might want to give it a go. She makes it clear throughout the whole film that she's not really all that interested in a relationship with him, but in the last scene she doesn't look like the cop negotiator that you describe to *me*. She struck me as the sort that would eventually simply phone the police if she wanted rid of him, and if that's what we're intended to understand as being her desire, wouldn't Gondry have shown this?

Sorry, I'll be slightly clearer: *I'm* a hopeless romantic and hence enjoy films about relationships and anything that features fantasy, even carboard and felt fantasy of this type, I didn't *really* mean to imply that I thought this film was, in fact, *tremendously* romantic. It has yearnings in that direction, but if anything it's an excellent picture of what happens when hopeless romantics end up having their fantasies put through the meatgrinder of real life. Everything gets entangled and messy and thwarted, but in the end there's hope. Perhaps. I think whether or not you take hope from the end of the movie depends on you, it's quite deliberately a very ambiguous ending.

I should add, probably, that I've never broken into anyone's house and fixed their mechanical *anything*. Just so we're on the same page...
 
 
thewalker
20:15 / 16.03.07
lets not forget that, breaking and entering aside, they are perfect for each other......
 
  
Add Your Reply