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H&SBR: Cheating

 
  

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Slim
02:18 / 13.03.07
I'm trying to get some answers about cheating and why someone would do it. For the record, I'm not asking because someone cheated on me or because I'm considering cheating on someone. I'd appreciate it if people would relate their experiences, although I'd understand if people didn't want to cop to performing what many feel is a highly immoral act.

The questions:
How many of you have cheated on a signigicant other? What were your reasons for doing so? How did it make you feel? Did you continue to stay with the person you cheated on?
 
 
Princess
12:04 / 13.03.07
They are talking about this on loose women right now.
 
 
Smoothly
14:15 / 13.03.07
What do you count as cheating, Slim? Thing is, definitions are notable by their variance.

You might struggle to find people willing to confess to their infidelities (unless Princess doesn’t mind people using his secret email address for this), but there’s probably a whole thread to be had making sense of what constitutes cheating, and the complexities of the ethical factors at play.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
14:22 / 13.03.07
And you, Smoothly, could start one, no? I'd have a post in me for a thread like that.
 
 
Smoothly
14:30 / 13.03.07
If Slim wants this thread to focus on confessions and anecdotes, and steer clear of an exploration of the concepts, I will. But I'll wait for a steer from him.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
14:36 / 13.03.07
How many of you have cheated on a signigicant other? What were your reasons for doing so? How did it make you feel? Did you continue to stay with the person you cheated on?

I am ashamed to say that I have been guilty of cheating on quite a few of my boyfriends. It mostly stems from being opportunistic. "Hmm, that guy really fancies me, and considering we'll never date, why wouldn't I just sleep or fool around with him the one time? My boyfriend never has to know." Of course, I realised my actions were reprehensible and that it was definitely not the mark of any sort of healthy relationship between me and someone else if I felt the urge to fool around on the side. Sadly, I only ever felt a little guilty.

I try to be much better now because after learning something nasty about my ex after we split, I know cheating benefits no one.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:01 / 13.03.07
Sometimes it benefits the third party!
 
 
Smoothly
15:17 / 13.03.07
Or the sexy party.
 
 
Papess
15:36 / 13.03.07
Or an ambassador.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
16:08 / 13.03.07
I think cheating - if by cheating we mean sex or sex type stuff outside of a relationship which does not, in its "terms of service", include extra-curricular sex - probably results from pretending that you're happy in, and staying in, a relationship that you actually aren't happy in, probably because of the security unfulfilling situations can none the less give, and thus, rather than breaking it up, you pay lip service to it whilst going and servicing someone else's lips.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
16:11 / 13.03.07
OK... I'll pick up the glove. About 1 1/2 month after my first date with my SO, I had a very drunken and extremely filthy one-night stand. This was at a stage in my/our courting where we'd had 2 dates (the first which wasn't even a proper date, but a picnic with, amongst others, her brother present), and we'd kissed. At the time I didn't even know if we'd be living in the same country (we met in grad school here in London, and I wasn't in the least sure if there was any relationship coming into being. Nevertheless, it so happened that we both stayed here (still London), and we've now been together for almost 2 years. I haven't told her about this, and might not do so. But I do feel guilty.

Why did I do it? Simple. A drunk, B horny, C a willing person (girl) was there, also matching A & B. Was it right? I don't know.

Is this cheating? I don't know. Sometimes I feel yes, sometimes no. We hadn't made any pledges, the R-word hadn't been mentioned. At the time it was very touch and go. As I said above, neither of us were sure where we were going (both literally and metaphorically). It's not something I think about very often, and I'm not waking up in a moral panic over it. Sometimes, though, it's a tad... strange. I guess.
 
 
Smoothly
16:21 / 13.03.07
Allecto Regina, I don’t think it’s as simple as that, I’d be nervous about diagnosing unhappiness on that basis anyway. I think someone can be very happy in a relationship and yet still seek sexual gratification elsewhere.
To look at it another way, solo masturbation and private fantasies, lusting or daydreams could also be pointed to as similar evidence that one’s sexual relationship was unfulfilling to some degree, but that would condemn every relationship I know as an unhappy one.
 
 
Princess
16:23 / 13.03.07
(Anyone who wants to use the secret email thing should feel free, it's for whatever people want to use it for)
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
16:27 / 13.03.07
I want to use it for HOOKING UP WITH UNSINGLE BARBE-HOTTIES!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
16:28 / 13.03.07
Sadly, they have all gone into the West.
 
 
Princess
16:57 / 13.03.07
Another post from a secret poster:

"Okay, I've cheated. I had a crush on someone for a while, and tried to deal with it by talking about it with the person, openly admitting it. Well, the crush was mutual (I knew this anyhow.) Then after about a month of avoiding each other and being very well behaved, we got durnk together and I kissed hir. Not just kissed. Did as much as was possible without removing any articles of clothing. I told my partner about it a few days later. Ze wasn't impressed and asked me to cut all contact with the person. Well, I tried to cut contact, but it didn't work. So for a few weeks, I saw the person on lunch breaks at work, lots of lying in parks talking and kissing and trying to figure out whether it was serious. And to my partner, I pretended that I had dealt with the problem. This didn't last long -- it was like maintaining two selves in parallel universes. Incredibly tiring. Plus I felt like a fucking asshole. So I broke up with my partner. I didn't tell her what had been happening.

Why do people cheat? For any number of reasons. I think I became attracted to someone else because things had been really difficult with my partner for a long time -- life had been difficult for both of us -- and I felt like the relationship had become about domesticity and weighty responsibility rather than joy/fun/lightness. I always wanted to be non-monogamous, but my partner didn't; I'd gone along with that for a long time because I never felt attracted in an urgent way to anyone else until the crush happened. But by that stage, we had already detached from each other quite a lot. It wasn't about making my partner jealous, or playing a game within the internal dynamic of the relationship. I think it was a sign that we were ready to break up.

But the dishonesty, I feel bad about that. I didn't have the courage to be honest, I guess. I didn't want to hurt my partner. I didn't want it to become a weapon I could use to make hir feel rejected. But I witheld knowledge that ze might have used to decide what ze wanted: ie, I'm pretty sure that if ze knew I was still seeing the crush, ze would have told me to leave straight away. This way I gave myself time to make the decision about staying or leaving. Really, I was managing the situation for my benefit. I don't feel trustworthy or ethically 'just'. So I'd suggest that if you really want to fuck someone else, be honest about it. Don't be cruel, but be as honest as you can be. Otherwise, you just give yourself food for hating yourself. Which is maybe why some people do it in the first place. "

(Also, you're welcome, you mysterious poster you.)
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
18:40 / 13.03.07
if by cheating we mean sex or sex type stuff outside of a relationship which does not, in its "terms of service", include extra-curricular sex

Going by that definition, then I've cheated on exactly one SO. It was a very unhealthy relationship, however, and compared to the numerous other ways we abused each other the cheating is really just a side note to a horrible relationship that left the two of us feeling both repulsive and repulsed for months after the relationship was put down forcefully.

Beyond that, I've never cheated on anyone I actually cared for. I'm curious as to how one justifies it, or deals with the shame and guilt afterwards. Unless, of course, you're some sort of cold-blooded monster that just abuses people's emotions for shits and giggles. In which case I want to hear all about that.
 
 
ibis the being
22:21 / 13.03.07
I have, in my younger days, sort of passively mini-cheated, in letting myself receive a kiss or two from someone on the side, or mushing from one relationship to another without being clear to the first person about my lateral movement until I was already moving. My reasons - I was young, I wasn't ready for major commitments (but didn't really know that), and I lacked the confidence and assertiveness (and maturity, surely) to just go for what I wanted without being dishonest or covert.
 
 
Scarlett_156
22:29 / 13.03.07
The designation of sexual activity outside a recognized/so-called "committed" relationship as "cheating" has its roots primarily in religion, and secondarily in perception of property rights. It's only normal to want exclusive access to the sexual favors of one's favorite-- but it's as normal to want to sample the favors of others.
 
 
Corey Waits
22:50 / 13.03.07
I was in a relationship that wasn't entirely healthy. I felt as though I was putting a lot more into the relationship than my SO and the whole thing had become extremely tiring. Around this time I met someone else and we totally clicked. I had a massive crush on her and did my best to flirt with her and spend time with her until I decided to break it off with my SO and pursue this new opportunity.

Whilst I had absolutely no physical contact with this girl prior to the breakup with my SO, my SO still considered it cheating when she found out about it.
She had a way of being overly-dramatic, but perhaps she was right. Being in a relationship with somebody who loves you whilst you have no feelings for them and actually want to be with somebody else is dishonest at best and completely fucking heartless at worst.

Probably not exactly what you were after Slim, but my experiences on the subject matter either way.
 
 
Slim
23:23 / 13.03.07
Smoothly: Thank you for your restraint. If you want to explore what defines cheating then go ahead. If possible, I would like to stay away from the ethical aspects of it because then you take a tumble into the realms of ethics and religion. I merely mentioned the "immoral" aspect of it because I recognize that not everyone would be comfortable sharing their exploits. To specify more clearly, I'd like to steer away from post's like Scarlett's (no offense Scarlett). That discussion is probably better suited for another thread.

I'll leave it to the individual poster to decide what the definition of cheating is. If they feel that sex, kissing, or only stray emotions is worthy of the definition then so be it.

As Tuna has mentioned (and in a better fashion, I might add), I'm trying to get at the multiple root causes for cheating, the psychology of it, how one justifies it, etc. I felt like the best way was for people to relate first-hand experiences with it. Now that I've thought about it, though, people should be free to relate those of friends (if they are sure they know the whole story) or times that they themselves have been cheated on so long as they received an explanation for their partner's actions.

A small confession: This thread is not a result of pure curiousity. I have been with numerous women who were cheating on their boyfriends to numerous degrees. Sometimes this happened with my knowledge, sometimes without. I'm not proud of my actions but I tend to go after what I want, consequences be darned. As one can imagine, things can get messy and they sometimes result in very negative consequences for the both of us.

I still do not understand why it happens or how people can do it to someone they love. I turn to Barbelith, the fountain of knowledge that it is, for clues to the mystery.
 
 
Slim
23:24 / 13.03.07
Also, everyone who has been willing to post about their actions has been a help. Thanks for contributing to what is often a very sad and touchy subject.
 
 
Leigh Monster loses its cool
23:49 / 13.03.07
kali: Sadly, I only ever felt a little guilty.

I had this experience too, and wondered about it. I had one particular relationship in which I was less than honorable, but really never felt guilty about it, despite the fact that I knew it would devastate my partner if ze found out.

One of the reasons I cheated was to prove to myself that I wasn't owned. The other was an attempt to demonstrate to myself that intention and action were one and the same, morally speaking. I was just leaving Catholic high school and was sort of struggling with the concept of sin and impurity being something internal and inherent. I knew, conceptually, that it was a bad thing for me to be attracted to other people; it would hurt my partner to know it, and it was an impure impulse. But I felt no guilt for it. By cheating I was attempting to make manifest my internal sin to see if I felt guilty for it (of course, this is all hindsight now). I never did.

I'm sure I would have felt guilt had I been caught, but it would have been the resultant hurt that would have made me feel it, not the act of cheating itself. Since I was never found out, I never felt guilty, which unnerved me because I like to assume that my conscience is a good moral guide.

But, and this may just sound stupid, I have come to have a hard time grasping why people get jealous if I am attracted to others. As long as it doesn't detract from my love for whoever I'm dating, what harm is attraction, or even sex? I've been cheated on as well, and the only times that the sex has bothered me were the times I was insecure and unsure of my partner's love. The other times, I was just annoyed that ze hadn't felt free to tell me about it.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
00:07 / 14.03.07
laoi - i was about to write a long post there extolling the virtues of fidelity. but i couldn't. people have to choose their own virtues and make them work in their own lives, for and with the people who are engaged and involved in those lives. however, i'd say that while i could never say you are/were wrong to see no harm in your partner or you engaging in "extra-curricular activities", i know that were i to know that my partner had done so, that would pretty much spell the end of my relationship, and vice versa. i know this begs the question of why i and my so have this opinion. i just can't bring myself to delve into it at the moment. too tired + metalocalypse awaits. more later. thanks for interesting post. <3
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
05:30 / 14.03.07
So how defensible is the "Hey, I'm not cheating on anyone" line when you're foolin' around with someone in a committed reltionship? I only ask because, um, a friend wants to know?
 
 
The Ghost of Tom Winter
11:48 / 14.03.07
Heck, in my current relationship sometimes I feel like just talking to a female would excite questions and a raised eyebrow or two.

I've known some people who've cheated. Don't know their reasons but almost always their relationship ended because one (or both) of the parties were cheating. It seems to happen quite a bit too.
 
 
Princess
12:08 / 14.03.07
I'm not sure Tuna. But I know, if my fiance broke the rules with me, I'd be angry with him and not the Princess-replacement he'd been using.
 
 
Quantum
12:57 / 14.03.07
I have cheated many times, although I will say it was a long time ago and I stopped a few partners ago. Why do people cheat? It's sexy, there's a thrill that you don't get with a partner precisely because it's illicit. People cheat because of lust, obvs.
 
 
Leigh Monster loses its cool
13:38 / 14.03.07
I don't think it actually had much to do with lust when I cheated. People have as many different reasons for cheating as they have for anything else. If you're with someone you know is cheating on a partner, it's worth asking why they're doing it before you come up with your own justification (if indeed you feel you need one) and proceed/decide not to. There's probably a good chance the person you're sleeping with is using you to work out/avoid hir own problems and hangups, and even if you're comfortable with the idea of hir cheating you might not be comfortable with the idea of being used that way.

I've been angry at people my partner cheated on me with for their lack of respect for me, but more often and more intensely for their lack of awareness of their role in the situation--allowing themselves to be used and often hurt.
 
 
Princess
13:44 / 14.03.07
Actually, if the "bit on the side" knew me and had lied to me about it then I would be pissed.

Although I let my boyfriend try other boys the way that I try out dips, so it's not a situation that's likely to bother me.

If, however, someone else helped him break one of our other rules then I think the rules would apply. If that person knew our rules then I would be pissed. I'd be much more pissed at my boy, but I would still be annoyed that someone else had cared that little for my emotional well being.
 
 
Spaniel
14:53 / 14.03.07
The designation of sexual activity outside a recognized/so-called "committed" relationship as "cheating" has its roots primarily in religion, and secondarily in perception of property rights. It's only normal to want exclusive access to the sexual favors of one's favorite-- but it's as normal to want to sample the favors of others.

We-ell, I think the thing your missing there, Scarlet, is an engagement with the fact that stepping outside of the bounds of any relationship's tacit and not-so-tacit rules runs the risk of hurting other human beings. I think the concept of "cheating" has its roots in more than religion, basically.

It might be normal to want to sample the favours of others (lovely euphemism), but that doesn't necessarily make it okay.

Topics of interest for the new guys

Polyamory

Monogamy

Marriage

There are more. We've discussed these issues a lot.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
17:32 / 14.03.07
I'm sure I would have felt guilt had I been caught, but it would have been the resultant hurt that would have made me feel it, not the act of cheating itself. Since I was never found out, I never felt guilty, which unnerved me because I like to assume that my conscience is a good moral guide.

I was never caught by any of my boyfriends and had I even come close to being so, I would have lied and said they were being silly, jealous, and insane. I would have pulled the innocent act and feigned hurt. I figure if I've used it for many other things before, then being accused of cheating was surely a good enough time to use the "big eyes/shocked look" face.

And I'd like to think my moral conscience is my guide as well, but truthfully, it isn't.
 
 
Ticker
17:53 / 14.03.07
I have always been sort of heavy handed on the evils of cheating. So when a long term relationship was going down in flames and I was emotionally crossing the line I used pretty much every excuse in the book to say it wasn't so. But it was and I was lying to myself even before any toes crossed over any lines or I should say, any hands went down any pants. Then the self denial and painting everything in grey washes persisted even after I was single and the other person was on a see-saw with their SO.

I had some pretty profound mornings of self loathing sitting on curbs rolling smokerettes debating if the sex was worth the havoc it was playing my self esteem. Those staring contests with the stranger in the mirror and drunken freak outs are not something I'd wish on anyone. High drama for low pay out until I burnt out.

Oh how the mighty fall and land in the gutter with splashings of muck.

You'd think I'd have learned my lesson after all that but I fell off the horse a few years later with the same person due in part to alcohol and mostly due to a mile wide self destructive streak. I tend to stir up trouble if I don't do proper maintenance on the basement level of my psyche.

It was a minor trespass but I cried my guts out and burned with shame for weeks confessing everything the next day to my new SO. See we had a poly contract I broke by not clearing the minor drunken make out session before it happened. I didn't because on one hand I believed it wouldn't happen, and on the other I knew the person would get veto'd.

I'm an obsessive person sometimes and like being in lust and in love. I've learned the hard way that no thrill is worth that black pit of shame and guilt let alone the disappointment in my Beloved's eyes. Especially when if I do a bit of extra work I can usually get that thrill in an approved non destructive manner. It's just about not letting myself be completely destructive simply because I can.
 
 
jentacular dreams
18:00 / 14.03.07
time to use the "big eyes/shocked look"

Like this guy?

Just be careful the wind doesn't change...
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
18:00 / 14.03.07
How do you mean?
 
  

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