BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Underground > Temple >

Tyr

  
 
Talas
00:32 / 12.03.07
Tyr has been more of a presence in my life lately, but much to my dismay, there's not a lot out there about him. Yes, we know the big wolf bit his hand off, but aside from that, Tyr doesn't seem to get the love and attention that, say, Odin does. So what have you found out about him? How have you worked with him, and how did that go? Is he Odin's (adopted?) son or sky-god precursor?

If it's your UPG, please say so, but that's more than welcome too.
 
 
Hawthorn
02:37 / 12.03.07
Isn't Tuesday named after him? That's all I know.
 
 
illmatic
10:57 / 12.03.07
There's a small but insightful passage on Tyr here, in the section entitled Right Hand, Left Hand.
 
 
Olulabelle
17:12 / 12.03.07
That's a really interesting article in it's entirety.

In what ways has Tyr been coming into your life? People might find it easier to give you information if they could thing in relevant paths. For instance, Tyr was a sky God. Is that relevant for you?
 
 
EmberLeo
08:35 / 13.03.07
One of my oldest and dearest friends is a Tyrsman. I know several others who work with Tyr, but I'm closest to him. If you want, I can see if he's willing to discuss this with you via email.

I've had some few interactions with Tyr directly (either through mediums carrying Him for a bit, or in Journeyspace). But mostly I've learned that I'm very much not His. I rarely recieve messages from Him for others, and only once or twice for myself. Since the rest of the Heathen pantheon[s] treats me like a courier, that's actually kind of odd.

Things I can note: Assume you don't know what "fair" means until you've heard Him tell you you've got it right. It took me several tries to get anywhere near an answer He finds acceptable, and even then His response was something along the lines of "That's a good enough answer for someone like you." (Of course I'm realizing as I write this that it may be because I equate "Fair" with "Good" and "Right" when they're often three completely different things. Aaaaand now I sense a smile... hmm... I should work on this some more.)

This is not to say He's been insulting to me. On the contrary, He's very polite. But He has no illusions, and makes no illusions, and only tolerates in others the kind of illusions that are necessary to their well being (i.e. He is tolerant of my naievete, because it would probably break me to learn how hard the world really is all at once).

This is rather unlike Odin, who makes all KINDS of illusions for a wide variety of reasons, some of which are downright dishonorable.

I have noted that Tyr is more readily willing to posess a medium than Thor, but that He doesn't tend to prompt for it, and He doesn't stay for long when He's called that way. It's like He doesn't mind, but sees little point in it if there isn't specific work to be done that requires Him personally.

I have also learned a bit about His relationship with Fenris, but I'm not sure I can re-articulate what was taught to me by folks who know both Tyr and Fenris better than I do. All I clearly remember is that it hurt Tyr to have to bind Fenris, after befriending the pup, gaining trust, and ultimately feeding the wolf. He didn't offer His hand simply because He is honorable and brave, but because He felt it was the least He owed Fenris for such a betrayal. He wouldn't have bound Fenris if it weren't utterly necessary, but the binding was necessary, so the wereguild must be paid.

There's also something about Tyr not really having much appreciation for how willing to lie, cheat, and steal Odin is, with Loki's help. He accepts that Odin gets stuff done, and that it is Odin's nature to behave so, but He doesn't necessarily agree, or find it honorable, or right.

I do believe that Tyr is or was a King. I'm not sure about the whole Sky God thing, but it's never really been something I needed to worry about, so I haven't dug into it much. In general, the Aesir feel like Sky/Air gods to me, but that's relative to the Earthy nature of the Vanir, whom I work for most directly.

All of this has been experience based, rather than directly out of the Lore.

--Ember--
 
 
Talas
14:08 / 13.03.07
Hawthorn: Yes, it's generally accepted that Tuesday is named after him, by way of another version of his name, Tiw.

Olulabelle: He's manifested in my life, especially in the absence of Odin, primarily in his aspects as sky god and gothi/priest, with a tiny side-helping of honorable warrior. My wife, who is also working with him, relates to him as the sky god too, but mostly a very lupine god of justice. (She's very intrigued by the Fenris myth, for example.)

EmberLeo:
If you want, I can see if he's willing to discuss this with you via email.
I'd be delighted.

(Of course I'm realizing as I write this that it may be because I equate "Fair" with "Good" and "Right" when they're often three completely different things. Aaaaand now I sense a smile... hmm... I should work on this some more.)
I think I'm getting better at that too, myself. At least, some bit of me can intellectually separate 'strictly fair' from 'morally righteous' from 'what I really want' in most cases.

only tolerates in others the kind of illusions that are necessary to their well being
Yes, absolutely. My wife notes that that has been one of the hardest things for her, working with him: she's been hanging on to some old emotional baggage which he has been kind but ruthless about driving her to discard, and that he's good with helping her shore up the weak places.

I have noted that Tyr is more readily willing to posess a medium than Thor, but that He doesn't tend to prompt for it, and He doesn't stay for long when He's called that way.
That's something I've experienced too, having horsed Tyr a very few times and trying (and mostly failing) to horse Thor. The very first time, he surprised me with it by coming without being specifically called, but every time since then he's been called. I'd also note that for me, he's an astoundingly easy ride.

Tyr and Fenris...
I'd agree wholeheartedly with everything you said, adding that he has an interesting relationship with Hela based on his kindness (despite the betrayal) to Fenris. My wife described an impression she had to me, of Tyr not only putting his hand in his maw, but also stroking his fur, which I think also indicates what you described.

Tyr accepts that Odin gets stuff done, and that it is Odin's nature to behave so, but He doesn't necessarily agree, or find it honorable, or right.
Yes -- I get some feeling of respect towards Odin, though it's tempered by a sense of personal disapproval for Odin's methods. And that's part of what's confusing me about their relationship, to be honest -- there's lore that casts Odin as Tyr's adoptive father, and I don't quite get that. The anthropology suggests that Tyr/Tiw may have been the original sky-god-king in Ye Olden Days Of Antiquity (with some birch-earth-goddess wife who may or may not have been his female self), before raiding horse-peoples from the steppes conquered Scandinavia, but that doesn't seem quite right either. ... At any rate, the relationship's complex.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
14:18 / 13.03.07
Hawthorne/knudbrox - in Norwegian and Danish it's spelled tirsdag. Swedish = tisdag. Just thought you might wanna know.
 
 
Quantum
17:58 / 13.03.07
I know several others who work with Tyr, but I'm closest to him. If you want, I can see if he's willing to discuss this with you via email. Ember

See, I misunderstood your post initially;



from: TYR@aesir.org
to: knudbrox@barbelith.com
cc: emberleo@barbelith.com, valkyriegroup@asgard.com, baldur@midgard.co.uk

RE: Tuesday

DEAR KNUDBROX; A MAN HAS HEARD TALES THAT YOU DESIRE TO UNDERSTAND THE MYSTERIES OF BATTLE, IF A MAN CAN BE OF HELP THEN LET US SHARE A HORN OF ALE...
 
 
Mario
18:25 / 13.03.07
The thing I remember most about Tyr is that he was almost certainly the original Norse Skyfather, before Odin took upon that role. His very name Tyr/Tiu/Tiwaz is cognate with names like Zeus and Jove.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
18:33 / 13.03.07
Hrrrm. Aside from that probable linguistic connection, is there much other evidence for the Tyr-was-Top-God-first thing?
 
 
EmberLeo
19:12 / 13.03.07
I think there is, but I'd have to dig for it, I'm afraid.

If I'm not mistaken, though, the nature of the linguistic definition is what makes it so compelling.

In Hrafnar, at least, our song for Tyr is "Sing praise to the god whose name means "god" - Holy Tyr hear us calling."

See, I misunderstood your post initially;


Sorry, that sentence certainly breaks out of context, and is a bit confusing in context, but I didn't think it was THAT hard to read. Obviously, what I mean is that of the Tyrsmen I know, I'm closest to my best friend.

--Ember--
 
 
Mario
19:18 / 13.03.07
There may be other connections...

For example both Odin and Tyr sacrificed a body part, and both are fated to be killed by canine monsters (Fenrir and Garm, respectively). This begs the question "Was Garm originally another name for Fenris?", especially when you consider that Garm has no particular reason to hate Tyr, but Fenris does.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:00 / 14.03.07
Emb, that's not so much a serious misunderstanding as a running injoke. Have to admit I did initially read it as emailing Tyr and chuckled a bit, although your real meaning is obvious.

Mario: The topic has popped up a few times in the post on various lists that I'm on. It's kind of an article of faith that Tyr was the original head of the pantheon but was kind of usurped by Odin at some point in history, but there doesn't seem to be an awful lot of data to back up that idea. It's interesting.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:29 / 14.03.07
both Odin and Tyr sacrificed a body part

That seems to be kind of an occupational hazard for the Aesir, though. Odin's missing an eye. Tyr's missing a hand. Thor has a chunk of whetstone lodged in His head. Heimdall, according to some interpretations of the lore, may have sacrificed an ear for the supernatural hearing (wool growing on sheep's backs, etc). Sif has no hair and must wear a magic wig. Loki's mouth is scarred from being stitched up. Hodhr is blind. Mimir lost His entire body, and Baldr's dead.

As for the Fenrir/Garm bit: there does seem to be something funny going on there, yeah--two bound, monstrous wolves who will break free and slay two war-Gods. There might be a bit of confusion there; possibly this was originally one story which evolved into two different versions, both of which have ended up conflated in the Eddas.

I have to say, though, that I find this version of events mythopoetically satisfying. You've got the predatory hunger of Fenrir going into battle against Odin, a being who embodies something of the same hunger but commingled with wisdom, generosity, and other virtues--things Fenrir might well regard as being an adulteration of that pure predator nature. Garm, being a wolf-monster and close associate of Hel, is possibly a son of Fenrir (like Hatí and Sköll) or at least some sort of kinsman, so it seems resonable that with Fenrir dead He might seek to avenge the binding by killing Tyr.
 
 
Mario
10:55 / 14.03.07
That seems to be kind of an occupational hazard for the Aesir, though. Odin's missing an eye. Tyr's missing a hand. Thor has a chunk of whetstone lodged in His head.

But only Tyr and Odin CHOSE to do so. That's a critical bit.
 
 
Quantum
13:04 / 14.03.07
I didn't think it was THAT hard to read

No, it wasn't, I just thought it was a funny misreading. Unless you actually do have Tyr's email address.
 
 
EmberLeo
22:28 / 14.03.07
But only Tyr and Odin CHOSE to do so. That's a critical bit.

Er, no, at least Heimdallr did as well, if indeed He is missing an ear.

--Ember--
 
 
EmberLeo
22:31 / 14.03.07
Unless you actually do have Tyr's email address.

I'll get to work on that right away.

Freya, at least, has sent me email, much to my amazement, so I guess you never know.

(Seriously: I once got email SPAM that said it was from Freya, and the subject line was actually a pertinent comment on a problem I was having. The content was about Viagra, of course, but even that's sort of appropriate in it's own way.)

--Ember--
 
  
Add Your Reply