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Anyone wanna practice their tarot reading skillz? Cross and triangle spread, lovecraft

  
 
Jack Denfeld
09:31 / 09.03.07
So, I was bored a few minutes ago and went to some tarot card site for a free computerized reading. It asked me what kind of spread and what kind of deck, but I couldn't remember what the basics were, like the old nintendo tarot game, so I just picked the option "choose for me".

It had a spot for a question, and I asked how the next 12 months would go for me. When it was done calculating my reading it said that it used a Lovecraft deck, and a triangle spread. Is there really a Lovecraft deck? Do they just make tons of decks based on fantasy fiction? I've heard of Lovecraft, and read some of his short stories, but I really didn't recognize many of the characters from the deck. It was really confusing. If anyone has some spare time do you think you could help out with this? I'll put the reading in bold below.

The Cross and Triangle spread is a powerful means of understanding complex situations, developed by the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. This spread is rich in occult and mystical symbolism, and one of our favorites here at Facade. The Lovecraft Tarot is a tribute to the gothic writings of the visionary H.P. Lovecraft. It is the deck of choice for explorers of the macabre, and for posing questions that should never be asked. If you would like your own copy of the Lovecraft Tarot, you can buy it now!


The first card, the significator, is placed in the center of the cross. This card represents the prime energy manifest in your life. Seven of Tomes (The King in Yellow): Standing courageously for your beliefs in the face of adversity. Fear of failure overcome by the will to succeed. Great obstacles met with heroism and determination. Inner strength brought to bear at a critical moment.


The second card, placed above the significator, represents Air. It describes your spirit, process of thought, and the influence of reason. Shub Niggurath, when reversed: Stifling matriarchal influence. Unhappiness, selfishness, poverty and disruption of the home or family. Indecision, paranoia, and jealous rage. Sterility.


The third card, placed to the right of the significator, represents Fire. It describes your motivations, creative energies, and the influence of passion. Eight of Man (Wizard Noah Whateley): Losing interest in a matter deeply important to you. Being forced to abandon something in which you had invested great love and devotion. Seeking earthly, physical pleasures, to the exclusion of spiritual growth and emotional fulfillment. Emotional withdrawal and lethargy.

The fourth card, placed below the significator, represents Water. It describes your emotions, meditations, and the influence of love. Tsathoggua, when reversed: Resistance of temptation. Freedom from bondage. The pursuit of higher goals despite the influence of luxury and pleasure. Release from obsession with money and power. Liberation from fear, weakness and indecision through communion with higher powers or the inner voice.

The fifth card, placed to the left of the significator represents Earth. It describes your physical presence, position in life, and the influence of the material world. Two of Artifacts (The Colour Out of Space): Contradictory characteristics brought together as a means of resolving a conflict. Refusing to be ruled by negative emotions. Strife brought to a close through clarity of mind and restraint of force. Turning a blind eye to the minor infractions of others.

At this point the cross is complete and the triangle is formed. The sixth card, placed on the bottom left of the triangle represents one of two opposing forces. R'lyeh Rising: Unforeseen catastrophe. An abrupt change, perhaps leading to a new lifestyle and enlightenment. May indicate a broken relationship, divorce, or failure in business or career.

The seventh card, placed on the bottom right of the triangle represents the force that opposes the bottom left card. These forces may be external, but they are frequently one's own inner archetypes in conflict. Ghoul: A major change or transformation, possibly traumatic and unexpected. Freedom from the shackles of the past. A new beginning. Death coupled with rebirth, usually related to consciousness and lifestyle.

The eighth card, the reconciler, is placed below the cross in the third vertex of the triangle. This is the force that will resolve the conflict between the bottom left and bottom right cards. By meditating on this force and bringing more of it into your life, you can bring the matter at hand to a swifter conclusion than would naturally occur. Cthulhu Awakens, when reversed: Procrastination and indecision. Disillusionment and the inability bring a matter to conclusion.

The ninth and final card, placed in the center bottom of the triangle, represents the final outcome unless you change course. Five of Tomes (The Dhol Chants): An intense struggle motivated purely by the love of competition. A state of seeming chaos driven by endless small disputes and complications. A hotly contested race, debate, game, or other challenge. A stressful situation that brings out the best in the participants.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
10:07 / 09.03.07
I'd advise you to ignore the whole thing. If you genuinely want to get your cards read, go and see a professional reader and get it done face-to-face. If you are bored and want to fuck about on the internet to alleviate your boredom, go to a porn site or something.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
10:33 / 09.03.07
Really? Why would there be a difference? It'd just be like a random number generator type deal regardless if a human or a robot did it right? I thought it was more about the reading of the cards layed down.
 
 
HeartShadow
11:07 / 09.03.07
Well, you can find a deck based on anything. I've seen baseball tarot, Alice in Wonderland Tarot .. all kinds of Tarot. (and if I haven't seen it yet, I assume I just haven't been looking, not that it isn't out there).

As far as what meaning there is, it's yes and no as to whether an electronic version is just as good as a pro reader (or even doing it yourself). If you truly believe it's nothing or just a game, then yes, there is no difference. If the cards are actually being used to see what influences are going on around you, then who does it and their skill matters. And that would make a computer program (at least usually) crap.

Looking at that reading, while I've never used that deck or that spread, looks to me like it's talking about conflict and transformation. If you want to take it seriously, I'd say you should look at whether or not you're driving towards a cliff in your life. Especially since that triangle part of the reading, if I'm guessing correctly from the descriptions, are in order The Tower, Death, and the Five of Swords. Not a good combination, looking at a lot of strife. No matter what, that's talking about a major upheaval in life, and your choices are to make it good, make it bad, or be stuck in it.

But really, I wouldn't put a lot of stock in a reading done by a computer program on the web. I do them for fun sometimes, but I wouldn't take them seriously. (and even a reading done by a pro I'd take with a grain of salt. Keeping one's wits about one is always essential for this sort of thing).
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:13 / 09.03.07
I would say it is more about the person reading for you and the relationship that they have with the cards (in some cases actually the specific physical cards) and the deck in question. Unless there is someone on here who has a really deep relationship with the Lovecraft deck (which from the description comes across more like a novelty deck and perhaps not necessarily best suited to getting especially useful general information out of) then you are not really going to get much enlightened insight out of this random spread.

Other people's mileage may vary, but if I am genuinely looking for insight and information about something, I would rather go and see someone and have the face-to-face interaction. I think that's an important part of it. I could never read for someone over the internet who I had never met. I think that face-to-face dynamic is an important part of it. I see the cards and similar oracles to be tools that aid the readers psychic ability as a giver of oracle. I don't see it as a mechanical case of random dealing and dry interpretation. For instance, in a reading I might interpret the same card entirely differently for one person from how I would for another, based on received information that has not come exclusively from the cards but from the interaction as a whole. To reduce it to an internet shuffle and a by-the-book interpretation just takes away all of the magic, and I wouldn't really feel comfortable doing that or particularly confident about the information I was giving out. Other people view things differently, but for me the cards are primarily a medium through which the Spirits I work with may impart information about a particular situation. I can't really emulate something like that over the internet.

I don't think that an oracle should be approached as a kind of parlour game that you go to casually when you are bored. Either you genuinely want the kind of insight and information that an oracle will give you, or you don't. If you do, go and see a professional, preferably someone who has been recommended to you. If you don't, then don't fuck about with the dark arts... as they say.

I don't really expect everyone on here to agree with me about this, but you asked for an opinion.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
11:16 / 09.03.07
As far as what meaning there is, it's yes and no as to whether an electronic version is just as good as a pro reader (or even doing it yourself). If you truly believe it's nothing or just a game, then yes, there is no difference. If the cards are actually being used to see what influences are going on around you, then who does it and their skill matters. And that would make a computer program (at least usually) crap.
See, this I don't entirely understand. What is it that makes a skilled human more apt to actually shuffle the deck and deal the cards differently than a monkey or a robot doing it?

I can buy that a skilled human might have a better shot at reading the cards because it's more of an art, and experience no doubt counts for something.

I rarely post here and I'm wondering if I'm making any sense.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:20 / 09.03.07
looks to me like it's talking about conflict and transformation.

It looks that way, but I wouldn't be too surprised if the whole Lovecraft deck is about conflict and transformation, and such like. Even the Sun card is bound to be translated as the blind nuclear chaos of Azathoth, or something. Hence my advice to ignore the reading, unless you are having the cards interpreted by someone who is really familiar with that deck - and even then, large pinches of salt all round.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:25 / 09.03.07
What is it that makes a skilled human more apt to actually shuffle the deck and deal the cards differently than a monkey or a robot doing it?

Depends on the reader. My answer to that would be that, were you having a reading from me, it would be done under the auspices of the Spirits that I work with, and the fall of the cards would be an oracle from the Gods. The whole reading would be an extension of the relationships that I have spent a huge chunk of my life developing. The actual shuffling and dealing of the cards is where the magic happens, my interpretation of the spread is ancillary to that. Not everyone reads like this though, or has this sort of relationship with tarot, so the answer is probably different for everyone.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
11:26 / 09.03.07
Other people view things differently, but for me the cards are primarily a medium through which the Spirits I work with may impart information about a particular situation.
So you're saying that the tarot reader isn't drawing on a universal set of spirits, but the reader's personal ones that he or she deals with? That is interesting.

For instance, in a reading I might interpret the same card entirely differently for one person from how I would for another, based on received information that has not come exclusively from the cards but from the interaction as a whole.
Couldn't that possibly mess up the results? Small little judgements you make interacting with the person influencing the way you read a card?

I don't think that an oracle should be approached as a kind of parlour game that you go to casually when you are bored.
But why? If it works it works right? If I go to the world's greatest tarot reader and have them do a reading just for a laugh, wouldn't the results be just as valid as if I were dead serious?

Again, all due respect to the Temple, I really feel like a guest here instead of a tenant, just wanted to throw out some of these questions and am really interested in experienced members responses.
 
 
HeartShadow
11:30 / 09.03.07
"See, this I don't entirely understand. What is it that makes a skilled human more apt to actually shuffle the deck and deal the cards differently than a monkey or a robot doing it?"

That depends on what you mean by "random". If it really is JUST random, then yeah, it makes no difference. If there's a feel and a sense you get from knowing when the deck is "right", then a computer won't have that. It'll just have random information.

And I've done readings where I've just pulled cards completely at random, no feel for it. And they're usually garbage.

Re: the idea the entire Lovecraft deck is about chaos and conflict .. yeah, probably. I was just guessing based off which cards those looked like. Freely admit I could be wrong.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
11:35 / 09.03.07
Your descriptions were dead on according to this weirdo Lovecraft deck translator guide. I guess after you do the tarot so long you can just kinda get what everything is from novelty decks.
 
 
HeartShadow
11:44 / 09.03.07
with novelty decks, the actual cards tend to follow the "standard" definitions.

I would have actually had to get the book if you'd been using, say, the Osho Zen tarot. Because that one actually uses different meanings. (though, must say. LOVELY!) But most novelty decks are standard Rider-Waite meanings.

While I don't believe that I get help from Spirit, unlike Two-Headed Rude Boy, I do think that there's a certain amount of intuition that goes into shuffling and dealing the cards, not just in reading the result. Every reader has a different answer, I would think.
 
 
electric monk
12:09 / 09.03.07
But why? If it works it works right? If I go to the world's greatest tarot reader and have them do a reading just for a laugh, wouldn't the results be just as valid as if I were dead serious?

Well, if you did go to the world's greatest tarot reader, my guess is the reading wouldn't be free and there would be a greater investment of your time in the reading. You might shell out $500 bucks and spend 2 hours with the reader. So, not the kind of thing most would do for a laugh. I take your point, but you also have to consider that when you go for a reading done by a real person, you're asking them to put skills to work for you. And you pay them just like you would a plumber. This kind of ensures that both parties are taking the transaction seriously. It is, in a sense, work for the reader and an investment for the read-ee. Payment doesn't have to be cash money either. Some readers take small gifts (foodstuffs, wine, reciprocal services) as payment. A lot of these elements are missing from the free online tarot spread. Important elements, IMO.

I'll do you a reading tho, if there is something you need to ask about.
 
 
Ticker
12:18 / 09.03.07
I view the experience in some ways the same way as THRB and different in other ways.

I agree that using a deck the reader is not comfortable with or is skewed in one direction is extremely problematic. I find personally I need to use decks where the imagery resonates with me in a balanced manner. The Lovecraft and Geiger decks are just too focused on what I interpret as negative aspects to really allow me a balanced review.

When I reading I'm using the standard meaning of the cards and positions, the impact the images have on my subconscious associations, a flow of intuitive information being stimulated by the relationships between the cards, and my own history of reading.

I personally have developed the use of online tarot generators over the course of a few years for when I don't have my deck handy. I use one site in particular and often the same decks rather than new ones. Because I work with computers and websites as part of my everyday life I do have an established relationship with them as a tool.

I also do readings online (using a physical deck in my home)for people I don't know but I strive to present this as a mutual training exercise rather than a standard live reading. It is difficult and much less vivid than doing a reading for someone sitting in front of you but I use it as a chance to do true cold readings. I usually ask the person not to tell me anything or even ask a question to start with as I do a first throw. After they review this first reading I then have them go into specifics if they wish.

For me what is important is the clear impact the cards have on my intuition. As I recently stated elsewhere:

sometimes the cards are very specific to the perception of the person throwing them. They are intended to be interpretted and read by that person. So when I read a three of swords (for example) it may mean a slightly different thing because of associations I have with it. Also deck to deck varies and many people develop a shorthand with their cards of unique significance.

Be careful of reinterpretting what someone else throws for you because you maybe overlooking nuances intended for them to signal subtle energies.

So from my POV who you pick to read your cards is the important factor. If you are using a computer to throw your cards that is much different from having a computer read your cards. The power of the tarot (again from my POV) is not in the deck|cards but in the skilled interpretation of the spread itself by a knowledgeable reader.
 
 
Quantum
12:32 / 09.03.07
That HPL internet reading, Jack, is toss.
 
 
Quantum
13:42 / 09.03.07
In more detail, your majesty,

1) the deck is just a collection of art inspired by Lovecraft and not a functional deck (here's a review "David Wynn does provide a concise explanation of what these cards are and how to use them as if they were a real tarot deck. It's just that they're not.")

2) the reading is just a bit of text associated with each card presented in order rather than an actual reading (which factors the relationship of the cards, the occurrence of numbers and suits, the relation of the positions and images etc etc.)

3) you can tell a reading's worth and accuracy by it's internal consistency and reinforcement which that toss doesn't have

4) the quality of a tarot reading is a spectrum that goes roughly face to face, over the phone, over the net, then below that you get the readings generated by computer programs instead of people, then the badly written programs and just below that the badly written programs using badly designed novelty decks (like that toss).

5) the text used for the interpretation is astoundingly vague and largely trivial. Your outcome was that you'll have a race? Does that sound likely?

6) Lovecraft would be spinning in his grave as he was a materialist and atheist who didn't believe in the occult.

7) the correspondences are contrived and inaccurate and skew the meanings of the cards, and as 2HRB notes above about the Sun=Azathoth, predictably shoehorned into an ill-thought out system. Because it's a collection of art rather than a deck. Here's an attempt to reorder it into sense which fails IMHO. Azathoth as the Fool? Check out 'Temperance';




So it is, in short, Toss.
 
 
LykeX
16:12 / 09.03.07
Well, Azathoth is the Idiot God, right?
 
 
Quantum
16:49 / 09.03.07
Blind idiot god as I recall. Also Nuclear Chaos, Lord of All Things and the Daemon Sultan. Not *very* like the Fool in my humble.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:20 / 09.03.07
He's right. It's toss. The Lovecraft deck is okay as afar as being Lovecrafty goes; if you want something to leave lying around so your visitors can go "ooh, a Lovecraft Tarot," it will work very nicely. As serious divinatory tools go you would be better off with the Hello Kitty deck.
 
 
Ticker
19:33 / 09.03.07
I'd say the caveat being unless you're working with the HPL Mythos in other areas of your practice. In which case it could be a useful tool.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:50 / 09.03.07
True dat.
 
 
Ticker
19:56 / 09.03.07
I have the same problem with the Dave Mckean deck. It's amazingly beautiful but I'd rather using my drawer of kitchen utensils for divination purposes.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:22 / 09.03.07
I have to confess, I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to the Tarot. I mean, I get the utility of taking a symbol set that you're actively working with and applying it to the Tarot and I can respect wanting to work in that way, but it just doesn't ping for me. I like my old Aquarian Press deck (aside from their take on the Fool, which I feel overemphasises the positive aspects of the card). Or Crowley's Thoth deck, although I've barely dipped a toe in everything that's going on with that.

One thing I always get my knickers in a twist over is attempts to graft the runes onto the Tarot. Nuh uh! Runes is Runes! Tarot is Tarot! Wrongness!
 
 
Quantum
12:26 / 10.03.07
you would be better off with the Hello Kitty deck.



true dat. I'd echo the McKean tarot thing, it's pretty but useless.
I can see how you could use HPL with Mythos work, but it would be more useful to meditate on or use as a focus than for divination. Also, the computer program reading the cards for Jack was rubbish so even with a proper deck the reading is likely to be poor.
 
 
Ticker
14:27 / 10.03.07
Also, the computer program reading the cards for Jack was rubbish so even with a proper deck the reading is likely to be poor.

I have a few decks where I have chucked the meaning booklet right into the trash and sourced the images directly. Again for me as long as the card and its position in the spread communicate soemthing useful I'm happy. Perhaps this is in part due to using other items as divination tools and my comfort with self contained symbol systems.

To this end I see no problem with a skilled human reader using a computer to generate and throw the cards, it's just the computer interpretation I'd chuck out. Effort would have to be made to connect with the digital deck as a tool akin to a physical deck.
 
 
Unconditional Love
12:24 / 11.03.07
To add some other methods that i like Tibetan art of divination


Particularly the mala divination.
 
 
Scarlett_156
17:23 / 12.03.07
I'm a professional tarot reader and I also use the above mentioned site nearly every day.

The computer-generated readings are just as valid as readings cast by a human, but the interpretations are just all over the place. If you don't know much about tarot or how it works, then your best bet is to consult a human card reader. Using the interpretations that come up for each card does not help an inexperienced person formulate a useful overview.

When I use the facade.com site, I choose a particular deck and spread, and then completely ignore the interpretations, basing my own interpretation on my many years of personal experience with the tarot.

I hope this was helpful!
 
 
Quantum
13:07 / 14.03.07
The computer-generated readings are just as valid as readings cast by a human

I've found using real physical cards to be better, and as two-headed rude boy mentioned above specifically *my* deck gives me the best readings because I've invested a lot into that particular object. This is my deck, there are many like it but this one is mine...
 
 
Scarlett_156
15:56 / 14.03.07
^^ And that would be because you attribute more importance to the thing and its own inherent energy than to the randomness inherent in the divinatory act. I hear you, but lately I tend to take a more quantum or maybe you would say chaotic approach to divination. Without the reader/interpreter, the cards are just cards. (Kinda like how the act of observing a set of phenomena affects the outcome of an experiment.)

I have certain objects that I tend to use over and over for certain things, but if I don't have those favorite objects with me, I just use whatever's there, with the same results.
 
 
Quantum
13:04 / 16.03.07
I tend to take a more quantum or maybe you would say chaotic approach to divination.

OK, fair enough. I'm interested that you don't notice any difference between your usual tools and just using whatever's there though. As an example, I've borrowed decks or used other things for divination, but I definitely get better readings with my deck. More consistent, more significant, reinforced more and clearer for the querent. I totally agree you can use anything to divine with, but I wouldn't say they're all equally effective in my experience.
What do you use to gauge how accurate a reading is?
 
  
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