BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Conlags and Conscripts

 
 
Princess
22:09 / 03.03.07
So, anyone here got an interest in Constructed Languages or Constructed Scripts? For those not in the know:

Constructed Languages @ Wikipedia
Constructed Scripts @ Omniglot

Conlags of interest:
Lojban - A "logical language", originally an offshoot of Loglan, with an international community of a few thousand. Contains no illogical structures, considered one of the easiest languages to learn. Designed to be completely unambiguous in meaning when used.

Solresol - A language with only seven syllables. Designed to be communicated through a variety of methods but particularly suited to musical notation and colour coding.

And there is a list of Tolkien's Language's here.

Obviously, this is high geekery. T'was practiced by none other than JRR Tolkien himself. But I like it and I think that constructing a language as a piece of art could be interesting. So I intend to do it.

As it is I've only got some vague ideas about sentence construction. Meaning will be heavily augmented by impromptu portmanteux and I intend for metaphor to be a central part of communicating meaning. There's some very vague idea about a mechanism used to transform any noun into a verb and vice versa.

Anyway, is anyone else as interested in this as a medium as I am? Or am I just uber-geek?
 
 
lyrra sark
03:48 / 04.03.07
actually, i am interested in this... though perhaps not quite as much as yourself, as i've not committed myself to actually constructing a language myself.

i wonder how a completely synthetic language - that is, one put together from a menu of largely arbitrary rules - can be expressive, particularly of culture. tolkien's languages each have a distinct flavor, that help to convey the character of their speakers. of course, he drew a lot on real linguistic heritage, and the echoes of that heritage lend tone to his inventions.

klingon is also a synthetic language that transmits the culture - and, a la sapir-whorf, probably shapes it as well (accepting, for the moment, that klingon culture is real, and thus susceptible to shaping).

but these languages were built to be expressive. by way of contrast, esperanto has always sounded completely lifeless to me, devoid of affect. i was never surprised that it didn't catch on.

does any of this kind of thing enter into your own considerations for this project? will you be playing mostly with structure and rule for now, or do you have in mind the possible use of the language to communicate more than just its words?

i, for one, will be very interested to learn more as you proceed.
 
 
Princess
12:52 / 04.03.07
Well, so far in the plan I've been focusing almost entirely on the language's ability to express. I wanted a language that worked heavily with metaphor and was easily suited to the kind of poetry I like to write. It should, if I make it right, work in the same sort of way dreams do, where anything can link into anything.

To this end I've set up a few rules in its etymology. All words have to start as a noun. So there would be words for a run, a sleep, a digest, a eat etc etc. But each of those words could be turned into a verb by the addition of a modifying suffix.

eg. Awu (means dog, I like onomatopeia) is a noun. Awuna is the verb "dog", meaning to "to be a dog" or "to be as a dog". Verbs are assumed to be in the present tense. To modify tense another suffix is added. Awunanol would mean "dogged" whereas Awunani would be the same but in the future tense.

What, btw, is the proper term for "future tense", because it can't be that, surely?

My plan is that by introducing such fluidity between nouns and verbs I might get a language that was more open to strange contrasts, similies and metaphors.

The senstence structure will have changed too. I wanted the sentences to be ful of kennings and poetic understandings of the things the where talking about. Almost like having footnotes embedded in the text. In English I suppose you could do something like

"Love, which is like the universe or the deep sea or a maze, has behaved like a tame dog before fear. It has behaved mist, which moves like cowards, before reality"

but I don't like that. It feels like an overly long sentence. Also, the parenthesis works in some way to lessen the blow of the similies. I don't know how to explain it, but it does.

I worked through a couple of alternatives last night and settled on this. The language has a working name of Parrot, so this, amusingly, is Parrot Pidgin.

"Love. universe. deep sea. maze
Awunanol. tame/slave
before Fear. real. brick wall..
col Mist(anol). movement of cowards
before Reality..

Capitalisation is key to understanding this. If a word is capitalised it means that the following kennings are related to it. After each set of kennings a new line starts just to maintain clarity.

If you wanted to strip the text of poetry you could write it like:

"Love awunanol before Fear.. col Mistanol before reality.."

Double full stops indicate a sentence ending. "Col" means "the thing I was just reffering too", a bit like "it" can be used. Mistanol isn't a word that will be lasting into finished Parrot, but would mean here "to have done as mist does".

Does that all make sense?
 
 
Haloquin
20:57 / 09.03.07
I think it is 'future tense', actually. But I may be wrong.

I'm liking the idea, am just wondering about how you would pronounce the capitalisation, or if you were thinking of just keeping this written? Admittedly, even 'without the poetry', it has a certain amount of poetry to it.

The concept of a language that could be expressed through colours intrigues me, thanks for the highlighting!

Are you planning on all new words, eventually, or keeping a mix?
 
 
TeN
03:52 / 10.03.07
I used to be interested in it... back when I was in middle school/early high school and actually had free time
it actually taught me a lot about grammar, syntax, etymology, and the way languages work
 
 
Princess
08:05 / 10.03.07
Well, the words will probably end up having a mix of created and stolen words. A lot of the words have roots inromance languages anyway. "Caarn" being meat etc.

As to speaking it aloud, well the rules on that will be a bit vague. My intention is that it would never be a "spoken" language so much as a "performed" language. To turn a written sentence into a physical one you could use dance, sign language, verbal mimicry. Repetition of the written words is ok too, but beauty of communication is valued over speed or practicality. Of course, a good communicator could manage both.
 
 
Princess
10:24 / 10.03.07
Furbish
 
  
Add Your Reply