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Ergo Proxy

 
 
Seth
08:47 / 02.03.07
This is a bastard hard series to write about. More so than almost any other show it demands a commitment to finish all twenty-three (this isn't the series you're looking for, look the other way) episodes before you even really know what it's about. It's also constructed in the same way as almost all anime shows that I've seen, in that it's absolutely a game of two halves. The pacing and tone of the show changes markedly at the eleven/twelve episode mark, that's when you really start to get your emotional payoffs and plot reveals. This is television that displays a phenomenal amount of trust in the viewer.

A plot summary, which contains elements from a thousand and one previous sci-fi stories: Romdeau is a barely held together bubble of "utopia" in a frozen world after an ecological disaster, populated by good citizen humans, middle class immigrants and a robotic working class. When a virus starts making the robots think for themselves and have emotions and the city is terrorised by beings of phenomenal power known as the Proxy, three of Romdeau's inhabitants are compelled to journey out in a tiny boat into the shattered wilderness on a quest to find out who they really are.

To begin with it's so overloaded with ideas that it creaks and strains at the edges and in places comes apart altogether, often in extremely interesting ways. This is one of the series' major strengths, and also its major weakness. The first half of the series is frontloaded with a bunch of dry, unfeeling character designs (not characters) portentously delivering dialogue that's half philosobabble and half deliberately opaque, leaving the viewer running around trying to tie all the threads together. It left me groaning wondering whether I'd have to sit through nearly twelve hours of the same deeply hair-tearing out screenwriting immaturity that made the Ghost in the Shell and Matrix movies so bloody annoying. More philosophers are named than you can shake a stick at, check the series' wikipedia entry for a pretty good list of all the philosoporn on display (I say porn because the series relationship to its references is empty and unfulfilling, and it will be a point of some debate amongst viewers whether writer Dai Sato intended it to be that way). And these tendancies rather come back at the end, leaving you with three final episodes that will take a fair bit of decoding.

There were only three things that really kept me going throughout the first half of the show. Firstly, Pino and Iggy are fascinating characters almost from their first appearance, both are peerless examples of anime's ability to tie characterisation seamlessly into character design. Note the range of expression in Iggy's immobile features. Even before the Cogito virus starts to run its course there is a lot of material here, like most anime, on humanity's often anthropomorphic relationship to technology.

Secondly the little sail/hover boat, curiously named The Four Hundred Rabbits, is a beautifully evocative piece of 3D computer design. It really is a character in its own right, to be filed alongside The Millennium Falcon and Serenity in the annals of great sci-fi ships.

Thirdly, the opening theme. When it's introduced in the series' third episode it strike a peculiarly dissonant note with the content of the show, in that it's an extremely yearning, emotional piece that seems to jar considerably with the cold, empty content of each episode. Some beautiful design work in the credits too.

So after a whole load of underselling, is it actually worth it?

Oh fuck yeah. And I'm not going to spoil it for you. Suffice to say that when the inhuman and pseudo-intellectual bloody mindedness of the opening half starts to crack it does so brilliantly. When the reveals start to come the realisation of what has been going on the whole time spreads like dawn over everything that has come before. There are a series of episodes in the second half that are amongst the finest character studies I've seen. And prepare yourself, because there are a number of just completely bonkers mindfucks that knock you sideways with their audacity. This is a series that continually forces you into the deep end and dares you to float. Essentially, if you're feeling overwhelmed by the endless machinations, Gnostic allegories and academic babble then I'm starting to think that Sato's mission is accomplished, and he's about to blindside you by making you focus on all the wrong clever-clever stuff. Reference points abound, but you might think of it as a cross between AI, Ghost in the Shell, Heart of Darkness, a whole shedload of Gnostic/philosophical texts and Eureka Seven.

At heart, Ergo Proxy is the story of three people getting to know themselves and each other in a tiny little boat far beyond the edge of everything they know. Not a series for everyone, but hugely rewarding with perseverance.
 
 
uncle retrospective
07:42 / 05.03.07
I've just found this on line using shareminer and will get stuck in. Hope it's not as head melting as Serial Experiments: Lain though, that almost broke me.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
20:38 / 08.03.07
I've been watching a couple of eps per day of this fine show over the last week, having meant to sample it for a while and finally prompted to do so by this thread; I'm currently on ep 13. Seth's excellent introduction perhaps didn't emphasise that this is a top-notch anime show purely in terms of direction, music, script, production quality and as mentioned, character design. (I thought I had sworn off being attracted to women in anime, but the haughty Re-L Mayer has me sympathising with Vincent and, now you mention it, most of the other males in the show a great deal.... )

The odyssey-like structure and strongly evoked atmosphere of post-everything desolation both hark back to Wolf's Rain, an earlier and much inferior show which also had some involvement from Dai Sato. I would recommend it as worth a look if you're interested in Sato's work, were it not for the fact that it's boring, derivative, miserably badly paced and inconclusive*, if well produced as Studio BONES' projects tend to be.

More to say about Ergo Proxy itself in due course, except that for now I'm so glad to witness an 'artificial child' character that is both convincingly written and not fingernails-on-chalkboard annoying. And the Proxies are visually stunning, reminding me not a little of the monster designs in Milligan and Fegredo's wonderful Enigma.

*Saying that a TV anime show has a poorly resolved plotline is not unlike saying it's written in Japanese... but that doesn't mean you have to put up with more of it than you need.
 
 
Nocturne
14:44 / 11.03.07
I'm in the process of re-watching this one. It's absoloutely beautiful, but I definently did not understand one word of the babbling about God at the end.

Question: Is the awakening of the proxies related to the cogito virus? In the first episode (I think) there's an autoreiv "Mary" in the immigrant sector who is seen praying right before the proxy shows up. Was she infected by the proxy?

Pino didn't show any signs of infection until she came into contact with Vincent. It was in the mall when Vincent runs past her that she first kneels to pray.
 
 
Seth
13:58 / 13.03.07
I definently did not understand one word of the babbling about God at the end.

It makes more sense if you're familiar with Gnosticism. The Proxy are demiurges who, as their name suggests, act on behalf of the wholly absent *God* of the Ergo Proxy universe. It'll take at least one rewatch to puzzle through why they're at each other's throats and why their relationship with humanity vacillates between nurture and destruction, I'm not wholly sure I understood everything the first time round. Can anyone else assist in the picking apart?
 
 
Essential Dazzler
14:36 / 13.03.07
Now I'm done with E7 (For the moment) I'm going to give this a watch, really looking forward to it.
 
 
Nocturne
21:20 / 13.03.07
I'm glad I re-watched this one. I rather liked the characters this time around. Last time I don't think I ever forgave Re-l for her childishness at the beginning. This time I enjoyed watching her grow from a spoiled teenager to a reasonable woman. And her relationship with Pino was... touching.

Pino is my hero. She could've cowered in fear when she saw the Autoreiv's being destroyed in Romdeau, she could've cried when she saw her empty apartment, she could've whined and sobbed "I have a soul but I'm not human" like Pinnoccio. I don't think those things even occurred to her. She just kept going. She did what she could, and when there was nothing she could do, she accepted it and played her... whatever it was. I love Pino!

Why did they never call her Pino-chan? Is it because she's not human?

I think the Proxies started out taking care of the humans. They made the domes and protected them until the awakening, and the coming of the colonists shown at the very end. There seemed to be a theme in the series of people destroying things when they found out all was lost. Raul Creed sent up Rapture, Daedalus hit the self-destruct button, and Senekis killed a lot of people before she died. The alternate Ergo Proxy on top of Romedeau mentioned something about wanting to kill humans to exact revenge before he died. So maybe the reason the Proxies killed humans had something to do with the fact that they knew they were dying, just like Creed and Daedalus.

I understood a lot more this time, including the God-babble, but the last few lines had me stumped. Vincent has told his alternate self that he loves the humans. He looks and sees the human colonists coming to repopulate the planet, and says something about "The real battle is about to begin." So he's going to kill these humans? I know he's the Emissary of Death, but that hasn't amounted to random human-slaying before now. The only battle I could forsee was Vincent's battle for survival - the sunlight's going to kill him. Maybe he should go hide in the poisoned cave with the piano in it.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
22:46 / 14.03.07
I just finished with my first viewing of this series today; I'm sure I'll return to it soon. For now I'll echo Nocturne's comment above concerning Pino: definitely one of the best characters I can remember seeing in a show of this nature. At first her artificial naivete and inability to deal with human concepts (such as there not being another copy of a person around to play with after they've died, a perfectly natural assumption for a machine) seemed forced and a little creepy, but she won me over just by staying herself throughout. In fact all of the foregrounded Autoreiv characters were terrific: Pino, spurned and bitter Iggy - his spotlight episode was a perfect study of someone who's come to the end of being taken for granted - and stoical Kristeva, whose feelings for Raul never even needed to be expressed.

The 'philosophical' content of the show - let's be truthful, it only began to stop feeling like a set of bolted-on coolness signifiers pretty late on, around the turnaround point Seth identified above. (Extracurricular aside: I wonder if anyone else here, like me, viewed this on a fansub compiled by more than one group, as the first dozen episodes on my copy include some lengthy glossary notes from the conscientious 'subbers designed to flesh out the references to Mayan theology, beatnik bookstores and Hugo Gernsback. The minor variations between different translators and groups can often completely colour one's impression of a show.) Dai Sato and co's 'we've read a book' approach aside, Ergo Proxy could well be designed to put the lid on 'Dome'-style technocratic-cerebral pseudo-utopian sci-fi. And 'Busy Doing Nothing' was one of the best individual episodes of anything I've seen in ages - when Re-L jumped on Vincent in the candlelight I swear I could never have anticipated what was coming next.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
07:33 / 26.03.07
Plodding very slowly through this.

Visually, the series seems to make a lot of nods to contemporary sci-fi blockbusters (I'm thinking minority Report, I, Robot etc.), in particular the design work, but, y'know, better.

It seems very much to say "Nice try Spielberg, but this is how Sci-fi looks" eschewing the unbearable sheen of those films, and replacing it with an uncomfortable layer of grime and paranoia that means you can actually believe this is a world populated by Human Beings.

Plot wise, I'm not sure what's going on, only up to episode 9. I distrust Deadalus with a passion, and I'm fairly certain that Re-L isn't exactly unique, more like part of a set, although I couldn't tell you why.

I'm a little confused as to the character's names, the fan-sub I found seems excellent, but it can't decide on who's called what. I've had Re-l, Ril, Real, and Lil for one character and Daedalus and Dedars for another. I'm quite enjoying it, and it fits in with my wild ideas of where the story might go.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
19:05 / 08.04.07
Wow, that series was dense, it's been less than a week since I finished it and almost everything has already slipped through my fingers.

I thoroughly enjoyed being thrown for a mighty loop by episode 21. After the previous two episodes I was sat back, just waiting for the episode to end with a return to the bridge of the Four-Hundred Rabbits and the status-quo.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
23:26 / 09.04.07
Was the "Citizen's throw more waste" thing in the first few Eps simply an odd bit of world-building, or was it important later on, I totally can't remember.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
04:13 / 10.04.07
I'm fairly certain it was merely one of those gratuitous details to fill in the corners of the Romdeau civilization. The early, dome-bound episodes had a real Aeon Flux ambience to them in that respect that I greatly enjoyed.
 
 
Seth
15:22 / 10.04.07
I just saw Busy Doing Nothing again yesterday. There are a lot of sci-fi shows that do this kind of episode, I can think of at least one Trek related and a Firefly "run out of fuel" show. But they always broke up the sitting around with some kind of more exciting narrative of events. When Ergo Proxy does it it's entirely a narrative of character, no action whatsoever, just three people getting to know each other, some gentle philosophy, some very well judged humour, and one sexy goth agent learning from a couple of idiots how to pull the rod out of her own ass.

I also forgot how much I love the opening theme. I really reckon this show would benefit from a complete rewatch.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
22:45 / 11.04.07
And I'm fairly certain that Re-L isn't exactly unique, more like part of a set.

Hah! I just remembered posting this, I was... SPOILERS







Right! Daedalus had a pet REAL!
 
 
Nocturne
13:34 / 13.04.07
I think Busy Doing Nothing was my favourite ep. The first time I saw it, I actually felt like I'd been stuck there with the characters for much longer than the 20min. length of the episode.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
00:48 / 11.05.07
Regarding the "Citizen's throw more waste" thing, I seem to recall a few later references to the dome inhabitants "reproducing and consuming". I think that the "freedom" (or "negative liberty" -- all freedoms except idealogical freedoms) to consume and consume and consume is one of the cornerstones of life in the Dome.

The last few episodes really blew me away. I love how the PROXY theme is repeated on many levels... Proxy One --> Raul Creed, Ergo Proxy/Proxy One --> Vincent Law, the Administrator --> Lil Mayar, Daedalus --> Monad/Real Mayer.

I really noticed this with the EXTREMEly Luciferian Raul Creed and Proxy One. (Creed's ID number even ended in 666.) And with Deadalus and Real/Monad (who dies Deadalus' death at the end).

And while I actually expected Vincent Law to be powerless at the end, I think that he doesn't have much to worry about from the sun. His choice, to return and live with Lil and be more-or-less human seems to have jibed with God's overall plan... thus making him not a extraneous Proxy but a new kind of thing.

Or put it this way: The Proxies are Angels. Angels not following the Will of God/God's Programme are basically Demons. Proxy One even says this at the end. Vincent/Ergo by exploring and changing and growing and choosing to be of the world, no matter the cost has changed. Given Proxy One's statements about the "curse" and Monad/Real's comments about the creator's plan, I think that the death the "fallen" PROXIES suffered does not apply to Vincent Law.

And as for why the PROXIES always fight? It seems that many of them wanted to die. Add that to Vincent's "programming" as the PROXY of death and you get the occasional bloodbath.

I do wish there had been more of a resolution between Lil and Vincent, though. I mean, it's obvious, but still.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
16:54 / 26.08.07
Just got done watching this and I'm strongly of the opinion that some of the character designs are one of the strongest things about this show. I'm usually inclined to despise deliberately cute characters, but Pino was so well done I found her so adorable it was a battle not just to drop into this thread to post 'OMFG Pino iz SOO CUTE!' from fairly early on in the series. And I'm basically a cold hearted git, so getting that reaction from me takes more than a little doing.
 
  
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