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Animal Intelligence

 
 
ADe
00:25 / 23.02.07
I recently picked up my cat and walked in front of a mirror and watched her look at me (my reflection) and then herself and then her arm in the mirror and then look away...

It made me think about animal intelligence so I went on the internet to see what I could find out about this...

I found a site that seemed well informed (we are on the net obviously) but it was suggested that a "high" level of intelligence is the ability to recognise that a reflection of yourself is yourself and not something else...

It was also said that cats can't do this and we can... i.e. they see the cat in the mirror as another "inaccessible" cat but not themselves...

I thought I'd test this theory out as the look my cat gave me in the mirror was so convincing that she knew it was still me (and also the person who was holding her) that I thought it may be possible that this theory is wrong...

I decided that If I held my cat in front of a mirror (facing it) and slowly lowered a ribbon or something above her head (only visible in the mirror) she would react to it at some point therefore realizing that the mirror image was a reflection of herself...

Guess what... It worked 5 times in a row... If you have a cat then try it if you don't believe me...

I then tried the same test without a mirror just to see if she could somehow tell there was a wobbly thing above her somehow with some extra sense or something like that... She didn't at all...

Unless it touched her head she seemed unaware but if she saw the scene in a mirror then she was jumping up well in advance...

I think that's interesting... Anyone got a dog they could try this with...?

References,
http://www.messybeast.com/intelligence.htm
 
 
Quantum
11:31 / 23.02.07
I'm proposing a move to the Laboratory for this thread, as it's more cognitive psychology than anything Headshop.
 
 
Princess
13:26 / 23.02.07
Well one of our dogs has mastered the rudiments of language. Depending on his bark we can tell whether he wants water, the back door, attention or just a fuss. The other dogs don't have anything similar, and they don't use the system between themselves. The big black dog can usually tell us what he wants in less than three barks.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
13:33 / 23.02.07
There was also this thread a while back.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
15:29 / 23.02.07
Looks like I'm on a Barbe-roll today. This in from the Beeb: Chimpanzees in Senegal have been observed making and using wooden spears to hunt other primates, according to a study in the journal Current Biology. Maybe they're learning some nasty bits of behaviour from their cousins Homo sapiens?
 
 
sorenson
16:44 / 23.02.07
ADe, you're assuming that your cat is recognising the image in the mirror as a reflection. I suspect (though I don't know) that your cat is probably reacting to the exciting moving thing it sees in front of it, which it is perceiving as a moving thing in front of it, rather than as an object in a reflection.
 
 
Olulabelle
14:17 / 24.02.07
Not if the cat looked up above itself.
 
 
jentacular dreams
17:03 / 24.02.07
I plan to try this with my dogs next chance I get. However, I'd like to point out that the mirror test basically assumes that the animal is only using sight and disregards the possibility that smell, noise or whatever else might cause it to look at the object directly.
 
 
Evil Scientist
10:02 / 26.02.07
I found a site that seemed well informed (we are on the net obviously) but it was suggested that a "high" level of intelligence is the ability to recognise that a reflection of yourself is yourself and not something else...

It should be noted that it is actually a test of conciousness not intelligence. As far as I am aware the original experiment involved marking a sleeping animal with a dye in a specific area and then seeing whether or not it directed grooming to that area after observing itself in the mirror (the idea being that an animal would have to have a concept of "self" in order to recognise that the reflection was of it rather than another animal).

There is also a certain amount of criticism of this particular experiment with regards to what it is supposed to be looking for.

From the wiki on Mirror Tests:

There is some debate in the scientific community as to the value and interpretation of results of the mirror test. While this test has been extensively conducted on primates, there is also debate as to the value of the test as applied to animals who rely primarily on senses other than vision, such as dogs. As dogs have very poor visual resolution and acuity with red/green blindness, they have little chance of recognizing themselves or a dot (commonly red) in a mirror. However, dogs do recognize their own scent invariably with 40x more neurons than humans dedicated to processing smell. The key point being that the mirror test is only a measure of ability closely matching humans, not a statement of Consciousness, as is popularly believed. Additionally, as mentioned with gorillas, many animals may regard eye contact as a threatening gesture, so the application of the mirror test is unclear. Some mammalian species do not have stereoscopic vision, including rabbits and deer, which may be a factor in determining the value of the test.

In animal cognition experiments it's important to try and avoid anthropomorphising the animal's responses. Ascribing human emotional states and human responses to a non-human creature creates an inaccurate interpretation of animal cognition.

Maybe they're learning some nasty bits of behaviour from their cousins Homo sapiens?

My problem with this statement is that it is a personal judgement of yours that this particular example of tool use is "nasty" or "bad", and enforces an inaccurate view of the peaceful lovable chimp being corrupted by teh evil humans. Bear in mind that chimps also hunt monkeys for their meat and tear them apart with their bare hands. Be careful of ascribing human morality to a non-human species.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
11:08 / 26.02.07
Evil - point taken. I'm well aware that chimpanzees are not the peaceniks they've often been made out to be. As you say, they can be cannibalistic in their diet choices, and have been known to kill and eat their own offspring (reported by Goodall). To be more accurate, and less tongue in cheek - the question I was so lamely trying to raise is: Are there occurences of animals imitating human tool use, such as the use of weapons? Anthropomorphic attribution hereby excluded.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
11:09 / 26.02.07
Argh. You didn't say they were cannibals. You said they hunt and eat monkeys. Wake up, Losontem! Wakey!
 
 
locusSolus
13:45 / 26.02.07
Do you think dogs ever wished to be birds? Humans surely seem to do that a lot.
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:09 / 27.02.07
Do you think dogs ever wished to be birds?

Hard to say. I can't seem to find any cognitive studies into the imaginative capacity of dogs. I would be curious to see what form such an experiment would take. Dogs certainly dream, in some form.

Some animals do seem to demonstrate (what we would call) artistic ability. But again it is a question of whether or not that is the animal being creative or us interpretting random splashes of paint as "art".
 
 
spectre
13:28 / 27.02.07
Slightly different "cat intelligence" observation. My cat is obsessed with getting into our kitchen, which we won't allow because he eats our food. We orginally put a crappy folding door that closed with a latch, but he watched us, and was able to open the latch by hanging off of a hinge and smakcing with his paw...on the first try.

Later, we tied the latch shut, but he was able to jump up and slash at the string (it took him all night) and open the latch again.

Now, we have a real door, and he's taken to hanging from the knob and swinging side to side. He hasn;t been able to open this one yet, but maybe in time... He's like the friggin raptors from Jurassic Park. Anyone else had a similar experience?
 
 
Sibelian 2.0
11:49 / 15.03.07
re: cats opening doors

Yes, our cat opens the cupboard doors we keep his food in! It's a little tricky because they're both slightly spring-loaded (we keep his food in a lower cupboard and cat-treats in one of the upper kitchen cupboards) and have vertical loop-style handles. He's developed a technique for opening them - he stands on his hind legs bracing himself against the nearest vertical face that isn't the door, curls his paw inward and sideways, just like a hand, so it slips into the loop-handle and pushes himself away from the cupboard while holding the handle. The door squeaks open just enough so it doesn't spring back and then he drops to all fours and slightly to one side to get out of its way. Then he noses the door open the rest of the way.

He does this a lot in the middle of the night, with varying success. We are often woken up to the sound of cupboard doors banging suddenly shut, accompanied by exasperated meowing.

Also, if he wants attention he'll sit opposite you at the living room table and play with your cigarette lighter. If you don't pay enough attention to him (he usually gives you the time of a couple of pawings) he slides it off the table onto the floor.
 
 
Twig the Wonder Kid
23:31 / 08.04.07
Does a dog have a Buddha Nature?
 
 
This Sunday
01:28 / 09.04.07
My cat definitely knows her reflection is her. I, too, got curious and tried all sorts of tests to see how it worked out.

My chow, now a dignified fourteen years old, used to, in her youth, wait until all the humans left, and then use her forepaws to open the door from garage to kitchen and let the other dog in. We blamed that other dog for weeks, until my brother and I hid in cabinets and watched her do it.

Took in a stray tomcat a few months back, just temporarily because it was still wintry and snowing and all. Best behaved, wonderfully dispositioned older cat. But, when I put him in a carrier... it took him approx. three times seeing me work the latches before he started to reach through at two points and push the latches in to release himself. No flailing. No ridiculous batting around until he got an effect. Paws through, push up on one and down on the other, and open.
 
 
spectre
18:18 / 10.04.07
I don't know how true this article is, but I feel it is applicable
 
 
Feverfew
18:48 / 10.04.07
And even if it's not, the comments are worthwhile reading.

For my two-penny-worth, I think the term 'Animal Intelligence' is slightly misleading, because it tends to lump in what is usually Animal Smarts or Animal Cunning with higher brain function.

This is not to say that they're not both intertwined, but still, domesticated animals rely more on cunning than intelligence - even if that cunning belies the appreance of extremes of intelligence.
 
 
astrojax69
03:48 / 11.04.07
this from 'der spiegel' on raven intelligence. fascinating! (if a cheesy last line...)

and i watched a program on cuttlefish a couple weeks ago - they're astounding! one type's males even morph into female-like shape and colour and slips under the larger strutting males to get to the booty. and the light shows that dazzle prey, wow! they have the largest brain to body size of invertebrates, making octopussies look soft.

[not a great contribution to the discussion, i know. will add more - working now. shhh...]
 
 
Tryphena Absent
10:43 / 11.04.07
I think that cats go through the mirror stage, actually I'd argue that they go through the mirror stage more literally than humans.
 
  
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