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Jarring Social Encounters

 
 
Leigh Monster loses its cool
23:27 / 17.02.07
So here's mine: I went walking today intending to visit the river and hang out on the footbridge, and when I got there the bank was lined with a bunch of guys in track suits fishing, and the bridge was occupied by a group of young girls, obviously their friends. I didn't think anything of this and walked onto the bridge anyway.

I don't remember now how it started, but the girls ended up surrounding me and, for lack of a better word, harassing me. "Spare a fag? Spare two euro? Are you Chinese? Are you a les? Do you want to be les with us? Do you take it up the bum?" and things of that nature.

Then I remembered my roommate calling her brother a "Pav," and explaining to me that she called him that because he wore track suits and shaved his head and a Pav was like trailer trash. Then I realized Pav must be short for Pavee. (I'm still really new to Ireland, and kind of slow.) ....Anyway I answered all the girls' questions--I assumed they were used to being told to fuck off and get a job, partly because while I was there two passers-by told them those things--and I think they were surprised. They asked if I was going to call the garda on them. They were all 12 years old, except one who was 16, and they kept asking if I would go drinking with them that night or if I would take them into the Off-License. erg.

When they asked if I was "les," I said, "No, I'm bisexual," and they ran away screaming "Dirty les" and things like that. They ran about 50 feet then came back and started asking if I'd ever licked a girl's fanny, etc etc.

I ended up talking to them for about half an hour or more. I feel completely frazzled now. My problem is this: I had the impression that these kids are pretty regularly treated like dirt because they act this way, and I assume they act this way because they're regularly treated like dirt. I spent this whole chunk of time refusing to be be shocked or incensed by anything they said, in order to maintain a conversation and convey the idea that once in awhile people will interact with them like humans. Now I'm wondering if I acted out of condescension and ended up doing more damage than anything else. They definitely thought I was a zoo animal, and I'm wondering if by talking to them, which was obviously unusual in and of itself, I didn't just encourage them to alienate people. I dunnooooooo. I couldn't be more of a clueless outsider in this particular situation.
 
 
ghadis
00:03 / 18.02.07
Laoi: Whilst some of your experience is coming across quite strange to me, as i havn't been in that situation, much of it is quite familer. I think you dun good. Its never nice to be overwhelmed by a group of people giving you crap but it is great sometimes when you can turn the situation round and talk to them and have a conversation. Make a connection beyond what is seemingly the norm on their side and also on yours. Thats always good.
 
 
Red Concrete
00:09 / 18.02.07
I very much doubt you did any damage...! Jesus! It seems to me that they were a bunch of bored traveller kids getting kicks out of buzzing off passers-by. I very much doubt they will even remember you, unless they enjoyed their conversation with you very much, in which case they might have a laugh over "that lez we met on the bridge".

Anyway, you shouldn't feel frazzled at all - you could have just shrugged at them, and kept walking - which is probably what most people would do. Anyway, you strike me as quite an earnest and intelligent person in what was probably an intimidating situation. Where are you from originally? Do they not have street punks there?
 
 
ghadis
00:14 / 18.02.07
With regards to talking to them. Fuck yea! Be careful, of course, but go for it! Challenge the fuckers! I imagine that each of them are going back, thinking about the encounter, and without peer presure, thinking about stuff. Well, perhaps.
 
 
Kirin? Who the heck?
00:41 / 18.02.07
Their reactions to your bisexuality are pretty normal among secondary school–age kids. I'm in the upper sixth form, and I still get people asking me (regarding my being a gay male, and the only out one in the sixth form) 'have you ever done ...' and 'would you ever ...'. I can never decide if, by answering their questions, I'm helping them to a better understanding of me and gay people in general, or if it's more of a poking-at-the-freak sort of thing. It's especially confusing because they are, in general, nice, intelligent people.
 
 
Leigh Monster loses its cool
01:26 / 18.02.07
yeah, that's kind of exactly it--I generally feel like it's good to answer questions like that just so people get information instead of myth, but there's the danger that without enough context that sort of information will just become more freak-factoid.

I'm from Oakland, California, so I've led a pretty sheltered life in terms of encountering homophobia. And yeah, we have street punks but they mostly smoke cloves on the sidewalk and keep to themselves. I've never encountered kids that aggressive before. In fact, I've been kind of surprised at how aggressive all the kids in Ireland are, not just the travellers. But anyway I'm glad no one seems to think I made a mess of this.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
04:43 / 18.02.07
Is "traveler" some kind of Irish euphemism?
 
 
HCE
05:03 / 18.02.07
Qalyn: http://www.gypsy-traveller.org/fft/index.htm
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
05:14 / 18.02.07
Oh. I was kinda picturing like a scene out of an John Waters movie or something. Cashmere sweaters, d-a haircuts, switchblades...
 
 
Lama glama
11:13 / 18.02.07
I've been kind of surprised at how aggressive all the kids in Ireland are, not just the travellers.

Kudos to you, Laoi. If I had been in that situation, I probably would have turned bright red and just kept walking at an even quicker pace. I would have been half way down Washington Street before figuring out that I probably should have engaged with them.

In the town where I work there are quite a lot of settled travelers in residence. Whenever they bring their children into the shop, they're always insanely curious, asking all sorts of questions about how I'm dressed, or what such and such a thing is. I think with these children, it's a genuine curious desire to learn about people that they might not encounter daily.

With the people you encountered, Laoi, I think there was some mockery involved, especially in how they used "les," and with their reaction to your answer of bisexual.
 
 
Princess
18:20 / 18.02.07
Ok, so theres this guy, a friend of a friend. Everytime I sleep at their place and he's drunk I find him touching me innapropriately. Once I've had to remove him from the innards of my lucky pants. He keeps belching and farting and he snores and he smells and he is MADE ENTIRELY OF ICK.

I know that we joke about my hypothetical attractiveness, but why do I lure them so? And why do only the repulsive ones come to me. I have very very low standards but the people who come to me are just so way below them. Grr. Time to buy a tazer.
 
 
Lama glama
21:04 / 18.02.07
Time to buy a tazer.

Or a chastity belt.
 
 
Princess
22:16 / 18.02.07
What for?
 
 
Lama glama
22:29 / 18.02.07
Everytime I sleep at their place and he's drunk I find him touching me innapropriately. Once I've had to remove him from the innards of my lucky pants.

To prevent him from touching you inappropriately while you're asleep. Reading that joke now, I can see that it could very well come across in an offensive way that wasn't intended, Princess. Apologies are sent your way.
 
 
Leigh Monster loses its cool
23:00 / 18.02.07
he put his hands in your pants while you were asleep?? personally i would deck him. maybe not the most peaceable solution, but ew.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
23:31 / 18.02.07
I'd probably have a talk with your friend, the one he lives with - and possibly avoid staying over if he's going to enter your personal space like that.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:37 / 18.02.07
Or, y'know, as leigh said, deck him.
 
 
Princess
09:51 / 19.02.07
UNfortunately I am a tiny five fott seven and this guy is very very much taller than me. Also, it would solve nothing and I rally don't like the idea of him getting sweaty and excited near me in that way.
Have spoken to my friend, my friend is not impressed with the young man.
 
 
Timelord
10:02 / 01.03.07
laoi, I also like the sound of the way you dealt with your encounter. It's nice, when you have the time, to interact with people who are obviously intent on gaining a particular sort of reaction in a way that is not only unexpected but also engages them and breaks up the monotony of one's own day.

I've had three jarring social encounters within the last week and, quite frankly, I have no idea why. Let me preface this by exlaining that I have very long hair and, also, that I'm not particularly young. Last saturday night I was at a chinese restaurant with a group of friends and between courses several of us stepped outside for a cigarette. Some drunken idiot who was out there for the same purpose with a couple of young girls decided that I must be into Black Sabbath and proceeded to mime guitar riffs at me. I had no idea what he was doing, said so and he explained before amending his opinion to something along the lines of "well you must be Ozzy Osbourne then" and started doing naff impressions of same. Obviously I'm not Ozzy Osbourne so he called me a c*nt and hassled me and my friends both while we were outside and then, later, at our table inside. Very odd. I did nothing but engage in good humoured banter with him but he just got increasingly angry.

The next night I was at a bar with much the same group of friends and some guy who was dancing to the 80's cover band which was, at the time, playing Blondie's "Call Me" decided that, since I have long hair, I would like to join him and his girlfriend on the floor and would love nothing more than to do my famous Status Quo hair tricks for them. Again I laughed it off and this time no anger ensued.

Today I was minding my own business in the spices and instant noodles aisle of the local supermarket when a woman who was a total stranger to me said "that's pretty spectacular hair for an old dude!". I thanked her for the hair compliment but added that I was't too sure how pleased I was about being referred to as an "old dude". She laughed, pointed out, as if she needed to, that she was "old too so it's OK", then went on to tell me her life story including the reasonably personal detail, I thought, that she had "learning difficulties".

It's been a very odd week.
 
 
Olulabelle
10:16 / 01.03.07
Obviously I'm not Ozzy Osbourne so he called me a c*nt

People really need to learn they can't go around calling other people c**t just because they don't appear to be Ozzy Osbourne.

Regarding the woman with learning difficulties, I find people with learning difficulties quite often want to tell you that they have them. Maybe it's because they've been taught to explain or maybe they personally think it's important you know, I don't know. I think it's quite helpful sometimes.

And what's so wrong with being called an old dude anyway?
 
 
Closed for Business Time
11:35 / 01.03.07
Sakkly. I get called an old dude all the time, and I'm just 30. On-topic, though not exactly jarring, just outside my flat today I was called over by a young lady across the street. She asked if she could have some of smokes (I was rolling a ciggie at the time). I says sure, and hand her the pack. She then asks me "do you want some business?". I stare at her confused for a second, she repeats the question, and it dawns on me that she's asking if I want to procure sexual services from her. I chuckle and say no thanks, then leave to catch the bus to work. It was the first time since my trip to Thailand 5 years ago that I've been asked that. And when it does happen, it's at 10 am on a quiet residential street in South London on a Thursday. She might have been 18-19, which was a tad disconcerting, but then again, I presume she was needing some cash quick snap. A bit sad, a bit weird.
 
 
ibis the being
15:12 / 01.03.07
In my first couple of weeks as a Nebraska transplant, I took my dog to the dog park. A middle-aged woman in Jackie-O glasses struck up a conversation with me around the usual dog park chitchat of groomers and vets. Then she asked me why I'd moved to NE, I said my SO and I had moved closer to his family... she asked if we were engaged yet, and I said no. She asked me my age - I'm 28 - and then sputtered indignantly, "Well don't you want to be young enough to raise your children?!" Um, uh... nice to meet you?
 
 
Leigh Monster loses its cool
16:32 / 01.03.07
I wonder what she would have done if you'd said, "Well I've got seven already..."
 
 
*
20:58 / 01.03.07
My most jarring social encounter in the last week was getting hassled by a young man dressed as a punk who thought my coat (plain, black, and rapidly shedding buttons) was too ratty/insufficiently stylish/something. A punk. Hassled me about my clothes. *shakes head*

My "esprit des escaliers" says I should have said "Oh, do you like it? Here, have a piece" and handed him the buttons I was carrying around in the coat pocket.
 
 
Lea-side
13:23 / 02.03.07
Not sure if this counts, but found myself in a very precarious situation last week. It goes like this:
For some reason, whenever someone has a birthday or other celebration in the office (and its quite a big office) a card is secretly sent round and everybody signs it. Now the thing is, nobody says says you have to sign it, but there's a sort of unspoken implication that if you dont sign it then you must be a msierable bastard or soemthing. So normally i just quickly scribble 'Have a good one!' and leave it at that, but last week I had just got as far as 'Have a good...' when i realised all the other messages read variations of "Deepest Sympathy" etc ! why had nobody told me someone had died!!!! All I could do was scribble it out and start again and hope to god that you couldnt read what i had previously written.
I almost felt bad, but afterwards i found out that the deceased was in fact the mother-in-law of some woman who works at the other other end of the office, who i only ever speak to when i need to order staples. So why was i being given a card to sign? christ!
 
 
Mistoffelees
14:25 / 02.03.07
Weird, I´ve just finished watching Office Space. Watching this movie, I´m reminded of the insanity of office life and feel relieved to no longer be a part of it.

Two colleagues and me came up with this solution for the "card problem":
We had this birthday card, that was already signed by everyone from a previous birthday, and whenever a birthday of our group of three came up, he got that card. Two other male colleagues said it´s a good idea, and they also joined the group. Everyone else still got a new card with every birthday.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
16:01 / 03.03.07
This afternoon whilst waiting for a train on an almost deserted station I was surrounded by five somewhat inebriated young men, who decided to ask me rather aggressively ‘are you a Muslim?’. I’m not, but I’ve been asked this question by relative strangers in the past – possibly this is a result of the interaction between my long perpetually quite tangled hair and longish but deeply unimpressive beard, and the stereotypes held by certain segments of the population as to how certain groups ought to appear. Ordinarily my response is to say that I’m not – but ask why they feel the need to ask someone they don’t really know what their religious persuasion is, and why it would be particularly relevant if I was a Muslim, and on occasion decent conversation can ensue from this. However I was feeling more than a little menaced by the drunkenness, aggressiveness and numerical superiority of these particular blokes, and so I just shook my head and tried to concentrate on my book. They then started to hover round me jeering ‘eh, he’s a Muslim, he looks just like one, he’s got a bomb strapped to him, he’s gonna blow us up’. Now in an ideal world, if I was an ideal me, I’d have had some delightfully searing comment ready that would have left the bigoted scum-fucks reeling so hard with humiliation they’d have been too incapacitated to proceed to beat the crap out of me for it. But it isn’t an ideal world, and I’m certainly not an ideal me so I didn’t so I just got up and started shuffling off to the other end of the train station, and then when the train arrived hid down the other end of the train from them. I’ve felt increasingly guilty about not challenging their vile comments loudly and firmly ever since, but the truth of the matter is I really didn’t think there was anything I could say that wouldn’t result in either increasing their verbal abuse or escalating matters into me getting my head kicked in. And really, really I’m prepared to take a heck of a lot of mockery or even a wee bit of head kick-inery, if it’s actually got a fair to middling chance of reducing the amount of racist bollocks in the world – but I’m fairly sure all allowing these guys to escalate matters wouldn’t have done that and would have in fact just been giving those guys exactly what they wanted.
 
 
illmatic
16:13 / 03.03.07
That's a really horrible situation. Sorry to hear you had to go through it. I think that, faced with the possibility of things escalating, you did exactly the right thing. It's very easy to beat yourself up after the event for what you should've done/would have liked to do, but from the point of view of looking after yourself, outnumbered by drunk guys, you did totally the right thing. You sound like you know this anyway.

Guys like that are like packs of dogs, and they're just looking for an excuse to attack. I did the same thing when a couple of crackhead twats started to "interview" me on a train recently. I got off and waited for the next train.

Anyway, let's hope, with that kind of attitude, that the guys who started on you catch a severe and injurious kicking later on.
 
 
illmatic
16:28 / 03.03.07
BTW I think it takes a lot of confidence to stand up and walk away. That's not an easy thing to do either. I don't mean in a "I walked away - 'cos I could have killed him" macho nobhead kind of way. I mean ... resisting getting drawn into responding to their insults, not being froze to the spot, not trying to be plactory. Walking away decisively like that takes a bit of courage also.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
16:57 / 03.03.07
Thanks for the support. I'm feeling better about it now. I'm coming round to thinking that any other response it would have been withing my power to provide would have been fairly stupid at this point.
 
 
Spaniel
17:14 / 03.03.07
They weren'tat youbecause they thought you were a muslim, they just used that word because it stands in nicely for other-than-us. I grew up with pillocks that behave like that: my mates were "gay" or "poofs", and by "gay" or "poofs" they meant people that had spent time living in places other than the fucking village they were destined to spend the rest of their oh-so-very-scared little lives.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
18:22 / 03.03.07
Oh yes. I'm acutely aware of the othering mechanism about that behaviour. That's a large part of what makes me angry about the whole encounter - I couldn't really give a shit if someone I don't know or particularly want to know wishes to randomly jeer at me, but the use of 'Muslim', 'gay' or whatever as an othering technique is what really pisses me off. I reckon jeering at random strangers is obviously deeply wrong, but the othering thing is as whole different kind of nasty.
 
  
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