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Rocky Balboa

 
 
Blake Head
20:52 / 02.02.07
I went to the cinema this afternoon. The trailer for The 300 is great btw, if your sole criteria for good cinema is heavily muscled men with naked torsos hurting one another, which mine might well be, given that my guilty pleasure for today was going to see Rocky Balboa, sixth and last of the Rocky films.

Buoyed up by good reviews and the fact that having like most people grown up with the other Rocky films I knew I’d want to see this one at some point, I thought “why not now?”. And in those terms, I really enjoyed it, and it’s a much more fitting end to the franchise than the severely misjudged Rocky V. Stallone looks right for the part, big enough and clumsy enough to come across as believable, and always threatening but never quite managing to break through the character’s inarticulacy.

It’s not brilliant, and it’s doing anything that surprising with either the characters or the format, but simply by attempting to go back to the basics of the first film and not completely fouling it up it succeeds, and sent me home again merrily humming that theme tune. Surely I wasn’t the only one tempted by Rocky’s last hurrah?


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Nostalgia aside, as much as I enjoyed this take on the character, and I wouldn’t want them to have written it any differently, I do wish they’d done it just that little bit better. Whether intentionally or not, some of the lighting is just too harsh in places, the film too slick and surface-based, and it creates this very jarring effect in a film so focused on looking at old-fashioned values.

Paulie is great as the cruel, racist old man so choked with bitterness that he doesn’t want to revisit the past, and with that being the main theme of the film so doing helps to weigh down the soaring hopes of the main character. Geraldine Hughes’ character also has a relatively strong role as someone remaining proud despite reduced circumstances, but there’s a weird admission that she believes that it’s only people who are able to physically prove their authenticity/strength that get to stay proud, which sits at odds with the rest of her character and gives the film an extra layer of masculine prejudice. Rocky, believing and eventually being counselled that he has to stay true to what he is, a fighter, is (predictably) never able to move beyond the idea that this actually means stepping into the crucible of the boxing ring.

The weakest part of the film is the dynamic between Rocky and his opponent. Pretty much because there isn’t one. Perhaps appropriate for a film even more than the others where it’s Rocky vs. himself, there just isn’t the same opposition between Rocky and an iconic villain, no symbolic challenge, say, of Rocky (Passion) versus the big Russian boy (Machine). Despite a reasonable amount of screen-time, we’re not given a chance to develop either respect or even admiration for Dixon, but at the same time no real dislike for him either, he exists in the film nebulously, his values remain untested and unclear, very much in opposition to Rocky’s side of the film. There’s also really no reason for the audience to want Rocky to land those big “hurtin’ bombs” on Dixon save a vague sense of loyalty. Which is a shame really, as even at the most basic level of wanting to see one last Rocky victory, there’s an odd lack of motivation. About the closest you get is that Rocky represents authentic, proven value, and Dixon is the modern boxer caught between his image and his untested worth, but that's stretching it.

The conclusion is also a bit disappointing. Returning to the format of a training scene before the big fight, the shots of Rocky are oddly curtailed, and there’s only a little sense that he’s pushing himself more than he’s had to before. There’s no departure from the basic “Rocky gradually gets over whatever he’s angsting about” training routine, and that more interesting choice of Rocky seriously struggling ignored, there’s also not very much hero-of-the-ring-porn that suckers like me could watch a good 10 minutes more of. Also pretty much dispensed with (arty visuals aside) is the plot-point in the other films that Rocky is meant to be under threat of severe brain-damage.

Going back to the format of the first film with Rocky as a plucky underdog (for different reasons obviously) against a vastly superior opponent was a good move, and fair play to the film, I was genuinely on the edge of my suit wanting to know how they would end it. What I actually thought they might do early on would be to have Rocky prove his strength against a worthy opponent and then, coming up against his physical limits, get the snot punched out of him. If they’d played it right, it would have been really good to see Rocky passing the torch to another fighter who was able to prove his worth against what was left of Rocky’s determination. They didn’t do that, and the split decision they do go with is a sketchy compromise that leaves Rocky really no different that at the start of the film, which given this is the last film of the franchise, feels like a bit of a wasted opportunity.

The other option that I suppose technically they did, would be to show Rocky undergoing some sort of cathartic release of his loss and anger, emptying himself of whatever that need to prove oneself physically is, but which they never really successfully portrayed. As it is, Rocky does his stuff and his determination remains intact in the face of all probability, when it would have been much more interesting if he’d had to change or they’d managed to better actually show that inner confrontation with the “stuff in the basement”. Seeing the eternally good-hearted Rocky genuinely confront his demons would at the least have been a change for the character. So like I said, I liked it, but I though they could have made braver choices if they wanted to make a “serious” Rocky film, or just said the hell with it and done a full-on Rocky is unstoppable retro-fest and have him actually win. As it is, while it’s a good conclusion to the series, it doesn’t really travel very far from the basic cycle the other films used, and it’s not quite as interesting an ending as we might have hoped for.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
07:01 / 03.02.07
I have seen it but your post is so complete and well-written that I'd have to give more time and energy than I currently have to an adequate reply.

Very briefly, it struck me as curiously 1980s in its form and telling (voiceovers, flashbacks, early-MTV cheap visual effects, tacky pastiches of Raging Bull... unselfconscious montage!). I felt Stallone convincingly re-inhabited the original character, the stumbling, mumbling lunk with the charm of a big slobbery dog. And though the first hour or so seemed dismally slow and cheesy (Rocky walking around doing favors for everyone in his neighborhood... "Thanks, I preciate it, man. preciate it." "See ya, Rock." ... like an hour watching fucking Snuffalupagus shamble around everyone on Sesame Street) I was rocking along into whatever 80s sentimental cheesefest the film wanted to roll with by the end.
 
 
Benny the Ball
08:09 / 03.02.07
I never got Rocky - was never in to it at all, I guess partly because of my dad's influence, he was a huge robert de niro fan and a huge boxing fan, and hated the rocky films - between telling me that the man couldn't act and the fact that heavy weights couldn't fight like that, I kind of never got interested in them. I went to the cinema to see Rocky IV when I was about 10 I guess, with a whole bunch of us from the estate, and was so completely shocked by how much people in the audience were getting into the film, jumping up and shouting 'go, Rocky!' during the fight like they were really there, so it obviously taps into somthing for some people - just, not me, like.

I've always prefered middle weights in boxing anyway - I guess to me, rocky is the equivalent of footballing films - what's the point?
 
 
Blake Head
19:53 / 03.02.07
I think, Benny, the point rests in what you’ve already identified – the Rocky films aren’t terribly realistic but more than that, they dramatise a basic conflict between realism and fantasy, and arguably the latest film does that to the greatest degree. Rocky as a boxer sequentially faces opponents that are technically better, stronger, more unfeeling, younger, and yet continues to win, each contest reiterating a basic idea that an underdog can be transformed into a winner through “heart” and “spirit” in defiance of all probability and physical reality. Like I said, I think it would have been interesting if they’d sidestepped expectations for this film by exploring the further limits of where that fantasy must inevitably give way to basic realism, but maybe that was too much to hope for. The point, and I think it is a particularly American point, is that Rocky has to win because he’s innately “better” than his opponents, the opposed values that each are given to represent are prioritised over their physical differences, and I think I’m right in saying that in most of the films Rocky’s victory has a transformative effect on both his opponent and their fans. The villain and his supporters eventually end up recognising the superior value of the hero. I guess with football narratives you don’t get that so much – not since the heady days of Sandford on Tour anyway.

Thinking about it, what most struck me about the sixth film was in how Rocky, representing the past, and a no doubt largely idealised view of boxing and sport in general as being primarily a challenge determined by willpower, spirit and morality, comes into conflict with a modern representation of the sport that is amoral and lacking in character and individual conflict. So, possessing a narrative, the fantasy of Rocky’s superior, old-school values gives him the moral victory (implicitly shot as being the most significant form of victory) while the superior sportsman, being tied to reality and so lacking a fictional narrative, has to settle for the technical "points" victory. I guess.

And there’s the Great White Hope thing obviously.

I don’t know if Stallone really is a bad actor so much as he’s appeared in some truly shit films. I thought he was really good in Copland for one.
 
 
Triplets
19:58 / 03.02.07
Aye. Spy Kids 3D as well.
 
 
Bamba
23:31 / 03.02.07
Aye. Spy Kids 3D as well.

I've never had much interest in the Rocky films and came to this thread out of interest over an old (and meaningless to me personally) franchise being revised to see what they'd done with it.

So, with that in mind: that's perhaps the most pointless and needlessly superior reply to any thread I've ever seen on here. Good job there Triplets! You wanker.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:24 / 04.02.07
You seem to be using "winning" in different senses, Blake Head. I must be honest and admit that though I think I've seen all the Rocky films, I've only seen #1 and Rocky Balboa recently ~ but as I understood it, Rocky's "victory" is often a personal achievement of "going the distance" instead of technically winning. His philosophy is not about how much you can give out ~ it's about how much you can take and KEEP GOING FORWARD!



Rocky as a boxer sequentially faces opponents that are technically better, stronger, more unfeeling, younger, and yet continues to win, each contest reiterating a basic idea that an underdog can be transformed into a winner through “heart” and “spirit” in defiance of all probability and physical reality.

Here, you seem to be suggesting that Rocky technically wins his bouts. I don't know if that's often the case. I agree with the basic idea you're putting across, though. Except that I don't think Rock's victories (or victories in fighting a "superior" opponent to a stalemate) are that far outwith probability and reality. Even in Rocky Balboa, they openly admit that he's slow and deeply flawed, and that his one tactic is going to have to be building up HURTIN' BOMBS, so each hit makes A DENT. In the earlier films, I didn't get the impression Rocky is clearly inferior. He's the underdog, often without the expensive and hi-tech training of his opponent as I remember (Apollo Creed and Drago, in this regard?) but that's actually the key to his victory. He trains harder through his "street" method because he knows the odds are against him. Creed gets lazy and complacent. Drago, I don't know, doesn't factor "heart & soul" into his Soviet training machine.



The point, and I think it is a particularly American point, is that Rocky has to win because he’s innately “better” than his opponents, the opposed values that each are given to represent are prioritised over their physical differences, and I think I’m right in saying that in most of the films Rocky’s victory has a transformative effect on both his opponent and their fans. The villain and his supporters eventually end up recognising the superior value of the hero.

My impression was that Rocky transforms the opponent by making him realise there's another way... perhaps a middle way, instead of just plain Rocky's way. In Balboa, "The Line" demonstrates that he's got soul by fighting properly for bloody rounds, instead of knocking down puppets. Beating Rocky is going to improve his career, but he's presumably not going to start punching cold meat or abandoning his style of boxing. With Drago, doesn't their match become a metaphor for the melting of the Iron Curtain ~ a suggestion of entente, rather than of the American just plain beating the Soviet?
 
 
Blake Head
11:43 / 04.02.07
Well, the first and last films are closest in terms of plot, a heavy favourite being fought to a draw or a split decision through Rocky’s tenacity, giving him the greater relative sense of victory - I quite agree this usually only supports that personal achievement; in the other films Rocky, after various setbacks, ends up actually winning bouts, but you’re right it usually only comes through going the distance with himself first. I actually quite liked the first half of Rocky Balboa when they transformed that creed of keeping going through the pain into a metaphor for a widowed ex-boxer’s life when he couldn’t keep proving himself in the ring, and then was moderately disappointed when they reinstated it.

I think it depends how much benefit of the doubt you’re prepared to give the films. A lot’s been made about it not being that unrealistic or unprecedented for an older boxer to come out of retirement and have a degree of success. More generally, I think if you were to ask most professional sportspeople if hunger and attitude could substitute for proper training or conditioning you’d be laughed at, especially in a sport which involves taking repeated blows to the head. If more generously you think the films depict personal qualities that complement adequate training, then fair enough. I don’t think Rocky ever loses a fight in which he’s not already lost or struggled to complete a personal battle, though, so in terms of the films the primacy of Rocky’s internal struggle in relation to his vulnerability is certainly heavily suggested. That’s where I think the element of fantasy comes in, as long as he remains true to himself Rocky is unstoppable by dint of his greater character, no matter how often or how hard he gets it, which is all very well, but it simply wouldn’t be the case in the real world.

I quite like the idea of the middle way, sort of what I meant by Rocky transmitting his proven values into Dixon; I wish they’d made it a bit less ambiguous in the film though. Like much of this thread, we might be reaching with suggestions of entente, but for what it’s worth I agree with you, with a couple of provisos. From what I recall, Rocky’s victory over Drago leaves the authority figures and their pawn defeated and confused, while the transformative effect is on the people in the crowd, who start cheering the name of the formerly vilified American opponent. Which is to say that yes it does often mean showing them a new way, but the overriding narrative is fixed in terms of popular values and in this case nationality. Similarly, after Rocky beats Apollo in the second film and has won his respect, he goes on to learn from him, which is all well and good, except that in doing so he also replaces him. His further victories would come after he had incorporated Apollo’s strengths into his own, which as I’m somewhat ashamed to recall, primarily had to with learning his “jungle rhythms”, so I don’t think a colonial reading of the films, however shallow, is entirely off-target.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
12:31 / 04.02.07
More generally, I think if you were to ask most professional sportspeople if hunger and attitude could substitute for proper training or conditioning you’d be laughed at, especially in a sport which involves taking repeated blows to the head. If more generously you think the films depict personal qualities that complement adequate training, then fair enough.

Well, there's a money $hot in the ring where Rocky/Stallone reveals his physique at last ~ and at this point I think we're responding to both actor and character, as it was (I believe) significant to the film that Stallone, Rocky's real age, really did the real training, and that's his real body. What I mean is that there's a guarantee of authenticity there, written on Stallone's body. Yes, he's sixty, and yes he looks like a brick shithouse. He does look rocky.

I read an interview with Stallone in some baby paper just now in fact, and he clearly identifies closely with the character ~ Rocky's struggle in and out of the ring is something Stallone feels as relevant to his own life as (apparently) a bit of a wash-up, past his prime, but with life in the old dog yet and something still to prove.

Anyway, my point was that the training does seem convincing. Rocky is much bigger built than Dixon. With a bit of movie-magic suspension of disbelief, but only a bit, I could believe that Rocky could make up for what Dixon had over him, with superior smashing power, stamina and determination.


From what I recall, Rocky’s victory over Drago leaves the authority figures and their pawn defeated and confused, while the transformative effect is on the people in the crowd, who start cheering the name of the formerly vilified American opponent. Which is to say that yes it does often mean showing them a new way, but the overriding narrative is fixed in terms of popular values and in this case nationality.

I thought there was a famous last-scene line, which I'm paraphrasing: something like "if I can do it... and if he can do it... everyone can do it!" Which I thought was meant to be about reaching from East to West, breaking down the barriers.

which as I’m somewhat ashamed to recall, primarily had to with learning his “jungle rhythms”,

Jesus.
 
 
Triplets
13:06 / 04.02.07
Can you find a quote/source for someone mentioning "jungle rhythms", because I can't.
 
 
Blake Head
13:33 / 04.02.07
Sorry, I may well be misremembering, as it has been several years since I saw the earlier films, and I hope it’s self-evident that the phrase above is how I remember the film (broadly) characterising part of Rocky’s task in that film, rather than how I would personally characterise it. To wit, I recall there being an uncomfortable level of racism, principally coming from Paulie actually, intersecting with the above appropriation of Apollo’s/ African-American culture, and the focus on Rocky needing to enhance his speed, balance, agility, rhythm, training to music, and so on. “Jungle rhythms” might not be an accurate quotation, but I’m sure there was a similar, if contested use of language just as dubious in the film.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
14:10 / 04.02.07
I think Paulie was pretty much explicitly presented as being an old racist in "Balboa" ~ interesting if he was always bigoted, but that the films perhaps didn't distance themselves as much from his attitudes.
 
 
Blake Head
14:13 / 04.02.07
This is a transcript for the third film. No names, which isn’t helpful, but from what I remember:

Paulie: He can't train to the jungle junk music.



Apollo: Come on, relax, Rock. On the balls of your feet. Find the rhythm.



Paulie: You can't train him like a coloured fighter. He ain't got no rhythm.


Maybe more disturbing now because both sides of the argument agree or don’t directly contest the basic idea of a "coloured fighter’s qualities". I never claimed they were sophisticated films. Rocky, of course, eventually assumes a level of those qualities and goes on to defeat another black character, and is quite dismissive of Paulie’s spiteful comments. But as I’m only giving an impression of a film I saw quite a while back, so I don’t think close analysis would necessarily take us very far without further input. Glad you’re here to keep me honest though Triplets.

To try and drag it back to Rocky Balboa, I like what I least felt was hinted at in the regret of Paulie, another old man, who maybe didn’t even have anything left to prove or strive for, and who didn’t have the positive memories that Rocky does. He’s still the buffoon of the film, but there’s a sense that what Rocky remembers as victories fought for with good intentions Paulie remembers as being more complex, he remembers his own faults and cruelties and he, in contrast to Rocky, is trapped by his true nature rather than being able to summon it once again to validate his existence. It’s Paulie that can’t summon the past because he has to deal with the flip-side of Rocky’s well-meaning blunders, and who is increasingly being crowded out of a more fair-minded present that doesn’t have space for him, while it will laud Rocky for being similarly “not modern”.
 
 
Char Aina
14:22 / 04.02.07
the lines, i believe, were "he can't train to the jungle junk music" from paulie, and then "come on, relax, rock. on the balls of your feet - find the rhythm!" from creed.

i definitely thought rocky's mate was racist, and i got the feeling it wasnt put in the movie to expose racism so much as to give racists a voice, a guy like them.
i think it should be pointed out that it's a movie all about a white guy beating up black people in a sport where, classically, the smackdowns go the other way.
rocky always struck me as the heavyweight champ white folks couldnt have in real life made real on celluloid.
i remember thinking that a lot of the people who might need that kind of reassurance would be racists like paulie, resentful at their own lack of ability and drive and jealous of anyone who wasnt similarly well, shit.

thanks for the memory aid.
i was quite young when i first thought about that, and i havent really thought about it since.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
15:13 / 23.02.07
watched it yesterday, loved it, almost cried.

only thing I didn't like was how ordinary the end of the fight felt. in previous combats, rocky was left a swollen pile of mumbling flesh, and he was younger/healthier.

even not taking into account the brain damage thing from ROCKY V [only one i haven't watched], you'd expect that surving all the rounds without throwing the towell or being KO-ed would make rocky and up at least screaming at the rink [while spitting blood], ADRIAN / LITTLE MARIE / SON, WE DID IT!

instead he just shook gloves with The Line [rocky opponent with the lowest charima i've seen], says GOOD FIGHT CHAMP, hears him reply YOU GOT HEART and walks away, soaking his moment.

yeah, he won because he set to survive that fight, he even tells The Line that much. but it felt too ordinary, almost a momento ouf of THE CONTENDER.

i liked the more improvised fight styling - contrasted with the more coreographed ones from previous flicks - but it felt lacking.

the moment he sees Adrian and Mitch and comes up again was priceless, though. so long, Rocky, thanks for the ride.

[i gotta go up those stairs at the Philly museum]
 
  
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