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Isa-Gebo-Isa (IXI)

 
  

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brother george
17:37 / 30.01.07
Hello people,
As the summary said, I've found an 'IXI' mark in my left palm in a dream (written in blue BIC ink). I was also informed that I graduated to the next grade in my highschool but that I would get transferred to another one (I've had numerous dreams involving 'class' and 'going to school again' and most of the times it generally meant me hitting walls and learning lessons).

When I asked frustratingly several times what this sign meant, I got "You are borned of Demeter" or "You gave birth to Demeter" can't remember what was it. But inside the dream I was going "Are you bloody kidding me? This looks like runes!".

I've logged on the other day at work and googled the meanings and I was dumbfounded. That sequence explained in coldblooded (hah) clarity a situation that's been bugging me for some time (relationships, love, gifts, you know) and this being in the middle of two Isa runes! (must be harp-playing/out-of-office season in the wonderfull world of Briah).

Also note for the record that I don't work with runes. I like the the northern tradition but I've never tried to mess with it since I had no intentions on fully devoting myself and following it.
I'd occasionally browse the sunnyway.com/runes site and thats about it.

So as a gesture of good will I would like all of you Northtrad folks your take on that particular rune sequence. The background is that I've being whining to the Gods of how I worked my ass off and not received what my bloated ego thought I should have received as a gift and reward.

And after or 3 months of whining and a year of overtime work some prankster goes and does an IXI graffiti on my palm.
Maybe I should blow all this pentagram drawing/hebrew barking and spend the month playing MAME.
 
 
Princess
19:14 / 30.01.07
First impression? An exchange between two stagnant states. Ice to Ice, too much stability, no growth.
 
 
Princess
19:20 / 30.01.07
Or someone called Igi?

I should probably warn you that I'm not the hottest runeworker on the board, and not particularly enmeshed with the NT, just so you know.
 
 
EmberLeo
19:38 / 30.01.07
IXI + Demeter = Roman Numerals? Of course, IX is 9 + I is 10... that's either a strange way of writing X, an incorrect way of writing 12, or an interesting way of putting 10 of something between two other things.

As for Runes: Cross connections between two stable (or static, or stagnant) bodies/entities.

What comes to mind is two cultures both of which are strong and stable in their identities, but can make a connection with eachother. Admittedly, this probably tells you more about my headspace right now than your dream...

Another thing that comes to mind is the pillars in the back of the High Priestess card, which doesn't have much of anything to do with the runes, beyond that Isa makes a good pillar.

Princess is probably a bit closer to the mark if this is describing romantic relationships. WRT gebo for love, keep in mind that while there is indeed an exchange, each side is sending a straight, one-direction line of love to the other, with no actual guarantee that they will recieve anything back. Love by nature is not an exchange. Gebo may represent an exchange of TWO instances of Love. Unrequited love perhaps wouldn't be represented by Gebo.

IGI sounds a bit like Ingvi, but that should be Ingwaz.

Last, but not least, IXI looks a lot like Dagaz as well - you may wish to ponder the implications of that similarity, and where the disconnect occurs. What prevents this from actually BEING Dagaz? This comes to mind because of another example: Two Kenaz back to back: >< isn't quite Gebo: X. There's passion, certainly, and fire, but the two involved are simply reflecting off eachother into their own self-involved experiences. There's no exchange there.

IXI is almost the opposite - there's exchange, but no fire.

--Ember--
 
 
EmberLeo
19:42 / 30.01.07
Oh, by the way, this also grabs my attention for no good reason at all - IXI has two axes of symmetry, which is unusual for a written word.

This I recall because I have a friend who goes by IXOHOXI for that reason.

--Ember--
 
 
Princess
20:17 / 30.01.07
You say it's in response to you asking your gods for stuff? Maybe it's a sign of "your not changing so we're not changing" type thing. Like you still haven't earnt whatever you wanted. Just out of interest, who are the gods? And do you have any links with Demeter?
 
 
EmberLeo
21:15 / 30.01.07
Oh bad pun. So I was reading the thread again, and pondering why it's so close to Dagaz yet not Dagaz...

"Well, the nature of the gift hasn't dawned on him yet."

Bad, bad pun. Again, this is more typical of how my mind and thus my dreams work than perhaps yours, but there you have it.

--Ember--
 
 
brother george
08:31 / 31.01.07
First of all, thanks for all of your posts. Each of your view was totally spot on regarding the situation but from a different angle.

Just out of interest, who are the gods? And do you have any links with Demeter?

I really have no idea who they are. As far as for Demeter, my work currently revolves around Malkuth and since She being of the Earth and all. Buf if you mean 'links' as in having developed a relationship, no. But due to the fact that my whining involves the keywords love and/or relationship I`m thinking Aphrodite must have to do something about it too.


So, my first interpretation for IXI was "a gift enclosed in ice, inert" as in "Well yeah stop mopping about it, its there its just not the time yet". I`m not sure about the two-ends exchange but no fire thing. If I`m the one end, then who's the other?

Maybe it's a sign of "your not changing so we're not changing" type thing

Well, it seems that this is the heart of the quarell between me and the Other.

Well, the nature of the gift hasn't dawned on him yet."

That ties really nicely, thanks. So what does one do? Wait untill the ice melts and Spring kicks in?
 
 
Princess
09:53 / 31.01.07
Rather depends on the specifics of the situation. Depends on whether you want to rush on in and change stuff or if you want to sit back and wait. What do you think you should do>
 
 
Quantum
13:42 / 31.01.07
the pillars in the back of the High Priestess card

Jachin and Boaz, from Solomon's temple. They're more like Yin and Yang though, perhaps the pillars in Justice or the Heirophant are more of a match? Notably though the pomegranates on the veil behind the Priestess are reference to Persephone, Demeter's daughter.

IXI- I'd say it looks like 111 in roman, or 1x1, or a weird 1}{1 symbol, but it smacks of identity to me.

Demeter (Ceres) is associated with the Empress, mother nature;
"In ancient art, Demeter was often portrayed (sitting) as a solemn woman, often wearing a wreath of braided ears of corn."
 
 
harmonic series
14:57 / 31.01.07
"You gave birth to Demeter"

The parents of Demeter are Rhea and Cronus (also spelled Kronos). Cronus is from the Greek word Chronos, meaning time.

The symbol IXI, looks like (among all the other wonderful things that people have mentioned), an hourglass on its side.

Rhea is often shown riding a chariot drawn by 2 lions. If you like the tarot links, this is, of course, The Chariot (victory, depending on whether it is reversed or not).

If I were to guess about this dream, and of course only you know: The symbol is written in BIC pen, which gives some indication that you probably wrote it yourself (translated, you're choosing this path). Left hand could be significant.
I was also informed that I graduated to the next grade in my highschool but that I would get transferred to another one... Who told you that in the dream?

Ultimately, with the time (or stagnancy, as mentioned by others) and victory symbolism plus the graduation, I'd say you were in line for a promotion.

I worked my ass off and not received what my bloated ego thought I should have received as a gift and reward.

Real gifts and rewards are not given out of obligation (contests excluded). Maybe a present will not be the most useful thing for you, maybe you have more advanced and fulfilling work to do.

Perhaps this is off track, perhaps it is helpful. Very interesting dream either way- thanks for describing it.
 
 
grant
15:08 / 31.01.07
It smells like Greek to me, actually.

Ixi'on?

Somebody summon Haus....

(adelphopoiia! hymenoptera! oxyrhynchus!)

I might be thinking of the Greek fish (as in the early Christian symbol), in which case iota chi iota.
 
 
grant
15:22 / 31.01.07
Oh, but if you're sure it's runes, then "Ice-Gift-Ice" in conjunction with the mourning mother of Persephone might have some resonance with something in your life. It being winter and all.
 
 
grant
15:32 / 31.01.07
(To clarify, in case you're rustier than you seem to be on the myth, Persephone, born of Demeter, was taken by Hades to live with him. As, maybe, a kind of gift. While holding her hostage, he does give her a gift -- a pomegranate -- from which she eats six seeds. It's the only food or drink she takes. She doesn't realize at the time that this is a contractual exchange ((also covered by Gebo)), indicating that from then on, she's to spend six months of the year in the underworld as the bride of Hades. Demeter, while this was going on, witholds her ((normally freely given)) gifts, allowing the crops to wither as the world is covered in ice. In exchange for the return of her daughter ((exchange, thus Gebo)) she melts the ice -- only to repeat the cycle again next winter. Ice. Gift. Ice.))
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:35 / 31.01.07
To clarify, in case you're rustier than you seem to be on the myth, Persephone, born of Demeter, was taken by Hades to live with him. As, maybe, a kind of gift.

You, old chap, have a very funny idea of what constitutes a gift.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:38 / 31.01.07
Uh, yeah. Dude, if some guy shows up while you're out for a walk and drags you back to his house, you aren't a gift.
 
 
The Ghost of Tom Winter
15:59 / 31.01.07
Those greeks had strange views when it came to gifts thats for sure.
 
 
grant
16:56 / 31.01.07
She was MINE. ALL MINE.

On my BIRFDAY!!
 
 
grant
17:04 / 31.01.07
More seriously, though, I do think the whole story reeks of exchange, diplomacy & balancing acts. Which are *really* what that big X-rune is about.
 
 
grant
17:21 / 31.01.07
Funny thing: I just looked up what Jordsvin had to say about Gebo.

He associates it with three stanzas in the Havamal, in the spell/songs section: 153, 161, and 162.

That bit of the Havamal is up here and here. Odin's talking about all the songs he knows, and what they do.

161 & 162 are: 161. A sixteenth I know: when all sweetness and love
I would win from some artful wench,
her heart I turn, and the whole mind change
of that fair-armed lady I love.

162. A seventeenth I know: so that e'en the shy maiden
is slow to shun my love.


153 is about calming warriors.

I have no idea from whence Jordsvin is extracting these correspondences.
 
 
grant
17:56 / 31.01.07
Uh, yeah. Dude, if some guy shows up while you're out for a walk and drags you back to his house, you aren't a gift.

There's another way to read this, too, which just occurred to me. (Sorry, this makes four in a row, I'll go take a nap shortly.)

Persephone's out *picking flowers* when she, herself, is picked. Like a flower. By a god.

Which brings up questions about Demeter's gifts, if you can call those things that spring from the earth gifts. Were the flowers happy to be picked? Or are they not gifts at all? In which case, what are they?
 
 
brother george
07:00 / 01.02.07
I`m enthralled! I haven't found the time yet to dig to all these references. Weekdays I`m neck-deep into work till late at noon. I'll prolly check everything in the weekend and respond. Sorry people.

I've also had the word 'havamal' mentioned in previous dreams. I thought it had something to do with the song by some obscure yugoslavian postindustrial band (Tabor radosti) I had discovered some months ago. When I discovered that 'havamal' is the northen trad's sacred writings I went berserk (heh).

Thanks again!
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:47 / 01.02.07
Words of the High One, dude, supposedly dictated by the Old Man Himself. Enough there to keep you busy for a good old while.
 
 
brother george
13:26 / 01.02.07
Yeah, as if I don't have already tons of material to work through! *sigh*.
I tried reading some of the stanzas and I didn't understand one word - and I thought my english reading skills were fine.
 
 
grant
14:12 / 01.02.07
Hesiod, Theogony, 912-914:
(ll. 912-914) Also he [Zeus] came to the bed of all-nourishing Demeter, and she bare white-armed Persephone whom Aidoneus carried off from her mother; but wise Zeus gave her to him.


Homer, Hymn to Demeter:
I begin to sing of rich-haired Demeter, terrible goddess—of her and her trim-ankled daughter whom Aidoneus rapt away, given to him by all-seeing Zeus the loud-thunderer.


"Adioneus" being Hades. Zeus is Persephone's dad, he gave her to his dark brother because, well, Demeter wouldn't.

More here.

So the BIRFDAY thing really isn't that far off after all. And funnier still about the white arms (which seem kind of Isa-ish in this context).

------

On the Havamal, you might find this translation an accessible one.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:30 / 01.02.07
If you want to read the Hávamál but are having trouble taking it all in then I'd suggest getting Carolyne Larrington's translation of the Poetic Edda. It's a more recent work. I don't find it as beautiful as, say, Olive Bray's but the decidedly unflowery prose makes it a much easier read, especially if you're not au fait with the very allusive style of the literature.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:38 / 01.02.07
"White arms" also makes me think of Idunna, who's referred to as having "bright-washed arms" in Lokasenna. She also gets carried off, in this case by a hostile Jotun who wants her magical apples of immortality.
 
 
brother george
14:44 / 01.02.07
Thanks for the translation link and the book reference but I`m afraid that, delving seriously into the Northen paradigm is out of my context for the time being.

Ah, and btw, I`m greek :->
 
 
calgodot
16:58 / 01.02.07
Ah, and btw, I`m greek :->

Then maybe it's iota-chi-iota - after all, you didn't provide a rendering of the letters you saw on your dream-hand, so we don't know exactly what it looked like. "Runes" are the first thing anyone think of when they see strange letters, particularly if they are crudely formed. (Why not cuneiform? I wonder.) The form of the rune isa does not exactly resemble the uppercase I (with the crossbars at top and bottom, as opposed to simply | [which itself may not render the same for your screen as mine*]), for example.

(*On my keyboard, | is a broken vertical line, but on-screen there is no break in the line. Go figure.)

I don't want to get into the whole controversy of whether one ought to work (or whether one's subconscious works) in a tradition to which they are "genetically" oriented, but many claim that this is the direction to search (particularly when dealing with issues of the individual or collective subconscious). If you are certain they were runes, then they were runes. But if there's any doubt, then perhaps you might turn to your "genetic memory" and look to the Greek tradition for answers.

The Greek alphabet used both upper- and lower-case letters, so if the dream-letters took the form 'IXI' (as opposed to |X|), then maybe what you're looking at is uppercase Greek (or even the Latin alphabet) and not runes.

Theoretical suggestion: Greek letters had numerical equivalents for Pythagoras (I=9 and X=6, so I+X+I = 9+6+9 = 24, and 2+4=6, therefore IXI=6). Pythagoreans had an elaborate system of divination and meditation associated with numbers and mathematics, similar to gematria or cabala. I've yet to delve deeply into Pythagorean mysticism; given the age of the tradition, there is not a great deal of extant literature on the subject (and much of it is generally unreliable for practical magical application).

Suggestion for magical experimentation: Get a blue BIC pen. Write the letters as you saw them on your left hand. See what happens. Further: adopt it as your personal sigil for a while.

The background is that I've being whining to the Gods of how I worked my ass off and not received what my bloated ego thought I should have received as a gift and reward.

"Ice gives ice." Ice begets ice. You reap what you sow. Maybe your tired, overworked and underpaid brain is telling you, "What didja expect?" Working for others often does not result in the rewards we think we deserve. By working for others, we surrender to their judgments of our performance and their generosity (or lack thereof) when it comes to rewards.

Geba can also mean "union," and isa can mean "standstill," which seems to indicate your opportunity for growth with your present employer may be frozen, your gifts trapped between two walls of ice. (You're not Pisces by any chance?) Considering your other dreams were about progress or impediment, this may well be your strongest lead toward interpretation.

Then there's bindrunes, which are a whole 'nother can of worms. If it was a bindrune, then using it as a sigil will result in likely extraordinary change. Get yourself a coin-sized slice of ash, hawthorn or rowan branch, burn those runes into it, and keep it with you at all times. (It may be interesting to note that if you connected those runes à la bindrune form into one sigil it would resemble the rune othila which refers to "inheritance," another form of reward.)
 
 
EmberLeo
23:09 / 01.02.07
They're more like Yin and Yang though, perhaps the pillars in Justice or the Heirophant are more of a match?

Mmm I can see reasons for each of them, really, but it was definitely the High Priestess who came to mind.

Left hand could be significant.

Well, for something written in simple pen ink to be on my left hand merely signifies that I wrote it, as usual, with my right hand.

I do think the whole [Persephone] story reeks of exchange, diplomacy & balancing acts. Which are *really* what that big X-rune is about.

Persephone also makes sense if we're connecting dawn, spring, thaw, of Gebo in Isa that melts into Dagaz.

I've also had the word 'havamal' mentioned in previous dreams.

That does rather reinforce the Rune side of things.

Ah, and btw, I`m greek :->

And that reinforces the Greek side of things.

Meh. I think it's good to look at your heritage, the place you live, the cultures you are surrounded by, etc. (Maybe that's just the excuse I use to justify the fact that I can't seem to help being poly-trad.)

I see no reason why it cannot be BOTH iota chi iota AND isa gebo isa. Of course both are Indo-European...

--Ember--
 
 
brother george
22:34 / 03.02.07
Maybe your tired, overworked and underpaid brain is telling you, "What didja expect?" Working for others often does not result in the rewards we think we deserve. By working for others, we surrender to their judgments of our performance and their generosity (or lack thereof) when it comes to rewards.

Oh sorry, I meant magically working my ass off :-)

Note: I've been "officialy informed" for the following, as I was typing the post:

I can either get what I want as a 'gift' and satisfy the need but without changing (and therefore continue to rely in external 'help') or change and claim it with my own power. Its pretty much like curing the symptoms versus the cause.


The first way of course beeing fairly easy. The second is guaranteed to place me into horrorful situations and has the potential to completely remake me.

And no - I don't want to hear suggestions, I can almost hear Mordant and rudeboy in particular screaming "Go for the second! The second! for the love of all that is terrible and sacred!".
 
 
calgodot
14:44 / 04.02.07
I can either get what I want as a 'gift' and satisfy the need but without changing (and therefore continue to rely in external 'help') or change and claim it with my own power.

"Gift" it to yourself, eh?

I don't want to hear suggestions...

If you've been "magically working your ass off" for some time, then you likely have already made the decision. I would say "good luck," but you appear to be doing well on your own, and sometimes "luck" is an impediment for the successfully self-reliant.

Thanks for sharing this dream-vision. It is always enlightening and encouraging to explore the dreams and visions of others.
 
 
Lord Switch
09:59 / 05.02.07
To be honest I think that you should sit down and meditate on the image (IXI) for a prolonged period of time, maybe even draw it on your hand and gaze at it.

If you have been asking the gods for a sign or payoff for all the work you have put in maybe this is it.
It can be a rune or symbol or sequenxe of numbers you need to focus on. It might also be the name you should use whilst doing the Kabbalistic cross.

You mention in your blurb that you're a hermeticist. initiated/self initiated?
As you know, Demeter is one of the great goddesses of life, fertility and harvest, being a different format of Gaia. Kronos is not only the god of Time, he is the god of the harvest as well.
The symbolism between the Orphic mysteries, Demeters search for her daughter and the neophyte initiation of the G.D. has alot in common. My take on it is that this is linked with the 0=0 in one way or another. You either need to undergo an "initiation" or it is simply a sign of your "self initiation"
Either way, the gods have given you what you wanted, now you need to internalise it

On a different note:
IXI might be read in roman numerals 1 10 1, either adding up to 3, the triangle, manifestation, or 12, the zodiac. (yes i am aware that IX is nine, I am considering the numbers seperately).

Hope you sort it out in a way that good for you
 
 
Saturn's nod
10:30 / 05.02.07
I've gotta say, in my tradition "not in my own strength" is one of the important gateways to the big stuff. But then my tradition's not big on the hermetic thing - 'hermetically sealed'? - has an implication that it's possible to 'cut off' in a way that doesn't mean much to me, so maybe what I have to say isn't at all relevant or useful to you.

I think I am very dependent on grace flowing to me from beyond my shallow self. I do lots of things wrong, I am learning as fast as I can and attempting to turn over whatever I find in my hand to the progress of compassion and joy, but I've been born into cycles of hatred and injustice in human society in this century. The process of breaking the hold of the demonic powers (hatred, small-minded-ness, ignorance, injustice, etc) is continuous because we are all on this planet together: the way I see it we need each other, there are very few beings on this planet could even come close to living without others.

I admit that I am not helping all I can with the change I want to happen because I'm so enjoying having the spoils of the world at my local supermarket, money in my pocket, leisure time. I need help even to perceive let alone to take responsibility for what I'm doing wrong in perpetuating the bad stuff.

Admitting my inadequacy and my own need for help from beyond to get where I hope and yearn to be, that puts me into a grounded and centred energy. Humility has great promise in it: it's powerful in the flow because I think it's based in awareness and acceptance, both of which makes change easier. So personally I'd say don't be too quick to assume it's obvious you should choose your 'own power', no matter how much you might be projecting the opinion of those you respect into telling you one path or the other is the right one.

The good news for me is that there is a power that delights in freedom and justice and can show me where I'm going wrong and teach me and lead me to do what I can, beyond fear and ignorance and greed and apathy. I haven't happened yet on any disadvantages to being dependent on that kind of helpful & universally available power.
 
 
brother george
12:47 / 05.02.07
First of all, I do not follow the Golden Dawn tradition but rather the Ogdoadic one (Aurum Solis/Astrum Sophiae/etc).

I've gotta say, in my tradition "not in my own strength" is one of the important gateways to the big stuff. But then my tradition's not big on the hermetic thing - 'hermetically sealed'? - has an implication that it's possible to 'cut off' in a way that doesn't mean much to me, so maybe what I have to say isn't at all relevant or useful to you.

The term "hermetically sealed" I think is a technical one borrowed from traditional western laboratory alchemy. No use getting into that now. There was a big mixup during Levi's time where occultism borrowed terms and goals from lab alchemy mixing them up with oriental concepts. But I digress.

I need help even to perceive let alone to take responsibility for what I'm doing wrong in perpetuating the bad stuff.

Yeah this happens to me also.


So personally I'd say don't be too quick to assume it's obvious you should choose your 'own power', no matter how much you might be projecting the opinion of those you respect into telling you one path or the other is the right one.


But what if you are expected to choose your own power because of fears and internal blocks that you need to overcome by yourself?. I do not mean not getting any help or insight about them from the 'Other' - but simply that nothing is going to be handed to you on a plate, you alone must act.

Humility is essential, but it can quickly degenerate into fatalism and/or rendering you magically crippled. Beware though, I haven't completely resolved the whole humility versus the magickal personality that emits power and authority. I`m still on my first treads.
 
  

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