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Science is Bad for Food. And Health.

 
 
alas
16:15 / 28.01.07
Yeah, my subject line is probably deliberately provocative. And, second confession, I have a little crush on Michael Pollan. He's amusing and has an incredible skill of writing about complex stuff very accessibly without oversimplifying. I haven't yet read his most recent book, The Omnivore's Dilemma, but I have read many of his essays and his earlier book, The Botany of Desire, which does a bang up job of explaining, among many other things, why pot is considerably stronger today than in days of yore due in large part to the war on drugs.

But, anyway, today he has an article in the NY Times Magazine entitled, "Unhappy Meals". (I cannot seem to get their "permalink" function to work today, so I'm trying a different approach. If that link isn't working, shoot me a pm and I'll try it again or I'll pm you the article.)

Since I'm so dubious of my link, above, I'm going to post a couple of big excerpts that I think give the gist of his beef, so to speak, with the scientific method as an approach to food:

THE RISE OF NUTRITIONISM

The first thing to understand about nutritionism — I first encountered the term in the work of an Australian sociologist of science named Gyorgy Scrinis — is that it is not quite the same as nutrition. As the “ism” suggests, it is not a scientific subject but an ideology. Ideologies are ways of organizing large swaths of life and experience under a set of shared but unexamined assumptions. This quality makes an ideology particularly hard to see, at least while it’s exerting its hold on your culture. A reigning ideology is a little like the weather, all pervasive and virtually inescapable. Still, we can try.

In the case of nutritionism, the widely shared but unexamined assumption is that the key to understanding food is indeed the nutrient. From this basic premise flow several others. Since nutrients, as compared with foods, are invisible and therefore slightly mysterious, it falls to the scientists (and to the journalists through whom the scientists speak) to explain the hidden reality of foods to us. To enter a world in which you dine on unseen nutrients, you need lots of expert help.

But expert help to do what, exactly? This brings us to another unexamined assumption: that the whole point of eating is to maintain and promote bodily health. Hippocrates’s famous injunction to “let food be thy medicine” is ritually invoked to support this notion. I’ll leave the premise alone for now, except to point out that it is not shared by all cultures and that the experience of these other cultures suggests that, paradoxically, viewing food as being about things other than bodily health — like pleasure, say, or socializing — makes people no less healthy; indeed, there’s some reason to believe that it may make them more healthy. This is what we usually have in mind when we speak of the “French paradox” — the fact that a population that eats all sorts of unhealthful nutrients is in many ways healthier than we Americans are. So there is at least a question as to whether nutritionism is actually any good for you.

Another potentially serious weakness of nutritionist ideology is that it has trouble discerning qualitative distinctions between foods. So fish, beef and chicken through the nutritionists’ lens become mere delivery systems for varying quantities of fats and proteins and whatever other nutrients are on their scope. Similarly, any qualitative distinctions between processed foods and whole foods disappear when your focus is on quantifying the nutrients they contain (or, more precisely, the known nutrients).

This is a great boon for manufacturers of processed food, and it helps explain why they have been so happy to get with the nutritionism program. In the years following McGovern’s capitulation and the 1982 National Academy report, the food industry set about re-engineering thousands of popular food products to contain more of the nutrients that science and government had deemed the good ones and less of the bad, and by the late ’80s a golden era of food science was upon us. The Year of Eating Oat Bran — also known as 1988 — served as a kind of coming-out party for the food scientists, who succeeded in getting the material into nearly every processed food sold in America. Oat bran’s moment on the dietary stage didn’t last long, but the pattern had been established, and every few years since then a new oat bran has taken its turn under the marketing lights. (Here comes omega-3!)

By comparison, the typical real food has more trouble competing under the rules of nutritionism, if only because something like a banana or an avocado can’t easily change its nutritional stripes (though rest assured the genetic engineers are hard at work on the problem). So far, at least, you can’t put oat bran in a banana. So depending on the reigning nutritional orthodoxy, the avocado might be either a high-fat food to be avoided (Old Think) or a food high in monounsaturated fat to be embraced (New Think). The fate of each whole food rises and falls with every change in the nutritional weather, while the processed foods are simply reformulated. That’s why when the Atkins mania hit the food industry, bread and pasta were given a quick redesign (dialing back the carbs; boosting the protein), while the poor unreconstructed potatoes and carrots were left out in the cold.

Of course it’s also a lot easier to slap a health claim on a box of sugary cereal than on a potato or carrot, with the perverse result that the most healthful foods in the supermarket sit there quietly in the produce section, silent as stroke victims, while a few aisles over, the Cocoa Puffs and Lucky Charms are screaming about their newfound whole-grain goodness.

EAT RIGHT, GET FATTER

So nutritionism is good for business. But is it good for us? You might think that a national fixation on nutrients would lead to measurable improvements in the public health. But for that to happen, the underlying nutritional science, as well as the policy recommendations (and the journalism) based on that science, would have to be sound. This has seldom been the case. . . .

[snip]

BAD SCIENCE

But if nutritionism leads to a kind of false consciousness in the mind of the eater, the ideology can just as easily mislead the scientist. Most nutritional science involves studying one nutrient at a time, an approach that even nutritionists who do it will tell you is deeply flawed. “The problem with nutrient-by-nutrient nutrition science,” points out Marion Nestle, the New York University nutritionist, “is that it takes the nutrient out of the context of food, the food out of the context of diet and the diet out of the context of lifestyle.”

If nutritional scientists know this, why do they do it anyway? Because a nutrient bias is built into the way science is done: scientists need individual variables they can isolate. Yet even the simplest food is a hopelessly complex thing to study, a virtual wilderness of chemical compounds, many of which exist in complex and dynamic relation to one another, and all of which together are in the process of changing from one state to another. So if you’re a nutritional scientist, you do the only thing you can do, given the tools at your disposal: break the thing down into its component parts and study those one by one, even if that means ignoring complex interactions and contexts, as well as the fact that the whole may be more than, or just different from, the sum of its parts. This is what we mean by reductionist science.

Scientific reductionism is an undeniably powerful tool, but it can mislead us too, especially when applied to something as complex as, on the one side, a food, and on the other, a human eater. It encourages us to take a mechanistic view of that transaction: put in this nutrient; get out that physiological result. Yet people differ in important ways. Some populations can metabolize sugars better than others; depending on your evolutionary heritage, you may or may not be able to digest the lactose in milk. The specific ecology of your intestines helps determine how efficiently you digest what you eat, so that the same input of 100 calories may yield more or less energy depending on the proportion of Firmicutes and Bacteroidetes living in your gut. There is nothing very machinelike about the human eater, and so to think of food as simply fuel is wrong.


In many ways this stuff is obvious--there's been a 'whole foods' movement for a long time. And even the argument about science and food isn't new, but the whole article, which is pretty long--12 internet pages--pulls many threads together for me in a very helpful way. Still, I am a lowly humanities type, and I'm very interested in what the denizens of the laboratory here have to say. Happy reading!
 
 
Lurid Archive
17:38 / 28.01.07
I can't seem to read the article from here, but I'll respond to the bits you quote - if you could send me the article, that'd be great.

OK. This fits into what seems to me to be a fairly familiar pattern. For a start, nutritionists are ascribed certain views and opinions without actually mentioning any nutritionist by name. I'm very much reminded of the Headshop thread on Latour's book, Pandora's Hope, in this regard. "Science" and "scientists" are imagined as some homogeneous block whose motivations include power and domination, who work via the media to promote messages for the good of corporations and whose advice is readily seen to be wrong by a quick gloss of certain facts - which, happily, are completely distinct from the kind of reductionist facts used by the blinkered scientists.

It isn't that I disagree with the basic thrust of the argument that counting nutrients is a bad way to plan a diet, I'm just rather sceptical that this is actually an agenda promoted by scientists. I'm happy to be proved wrong, however, and if we can find nutritionists who claim that the American diet is better than the French one, I'll be fascinated. Do nutritionists really see no difference between processed foods and whole foods? Again, that would be worth noting as more than an untethered claim.

Personally, I think this is an excellent example of the culture divide. For a start, you have to believe that people who devote years of study to a subject make claims that it is possible to dismiss in about 5 minutes research. Since one doesn't really see these researchers as people, it is easy to see the media, corporations and scientists as essentially all the same - it is rather curious, however, that scientists universally (in my experience) think that the media is pretty poor at reporting science at all accurately, partly down to the fact that journalists are usually humanities graduates. Anyway, the upshot is that little distinction is made between research, media reports and corporate advertising which is pretty interesting, although it does tend to replace "science" with all the technological aspects of capitalism, in a rather strange way.

That said, is it possible that there is too much emphasis on nutrients and not enough on lifestyle? Sure. Is this a consequence of science methodology itself? Well, thats hard to say, although the list of facts at the end of the bit you quoted there alas is a list of scientific facts. If science itself is the problem, then what is that doing there?
 
 
astrojax69
01:00 / 29.01.07
thanks for the link, alas! what a fabulous account of the state of 'diet' in a refreshing piece of journalism... i particularly liked his quip about the carrots sitting 'silent as stroke victims' while processed crunchy pops screamed about their nutrient content in the next aisle.

lurid, i'm sure if you read the whole article your concerns will be addressed. pollan is quite open on the claim of nutritionist's work - 'science' as a methodology works against the nutritionist in some senses becasue whole foods are soooo complex, the easy way is to tackle the subject bit by bit - nutirent by nutrient - and he suggests most nutritionists are well aware of this and would agree that this false and over-simple way to present the whole case is a matter of convenient necessity: but that in many ways this obscures the 'whole case'.

the brilliant thrust of pollan's piece is that 'food' and 'nutrients' are really rather incommensurable terms and we would all be better served by dietry advice being couched in terms of the former, with the latter dismissed (until we can see the complex relations ecompassed in the 'debate') as unhelpful...

more and more looking forward to the fruits of my relatively new vege garden, i must say! and i will hunt down pollan's other work.

be interested to hear from others here with more insights into this area of knowledge than me (who knows a bit about a few pasta sauces and some nice slow food recipes!) it does seem quite simple...
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:06 / 29.01.07
I can't seem to access the article either (may be my work filters kicking in). But I'll have a swipe at addressing what you've quoted from it.

The first thing to understand about nutritionism — I first encountered the term in the work of an Australian sociologist of science named Gyorgy Scrinis — is that it is not quite the same as nutrition. As the “ism” suggests, it is not a scientific subject but an ideology. Ideologies are ways of organizing large swaths of life and experience under a set of shared but unexamined assumptions. This quality makes an ideology particularly hard to see, at least while it’s exerting its hold on your culture. A reigning ideology is a little like the weather, all pervasive and virtually inescapable. Still, we can try.

In the case of nutritionism, the widely shared but unexamined assumption is that the key to understanding food is indeed the nutrient. From this basic premise flow several others. Since nutrients, as compared with foods, are invisible and therefore slightly mysterious, it falls to the scientists (and to the journalists through whom the scientists speak) to explain the hidden reality of foods to us. To enter a world in which you dine on unseen nutrients, you need lots of expert help.


These opening paragraphs are probably annoying me more than they should be because they seem to be taking a fairly common negative position on scientific study that it is intentionally designed to obscure information from the masses forcing them to rely on their lab-coated wizards. It's also pretty inaccurate to assume that journalists are in some way controlled by The Scientists.

I think what Pollan appears to see as a vast conspiracy by any scientist involved in nutritional science is actually more of a problem with media and marketing. It's not scientists deciding to market oat-bran or "probiotic" cereals is it? The scientists are the ones who say that Chemical X has Y effect on the system. The marketing types are the ones that push to have a new chocolate bar with "added Chemical X!!!" on the shelves.

He's not wrong that nutritionists are not always right about things (but seems to ignore the fact that not all nutritionists actually have relevant qualifications). But I think he's letting a personal dislike of people under the umbrella term of scientists distract him from what the real problem is here.

That said I can't read the rest of the article, maybe he expands into that. But so far he just seems to be arguing that ignorance about what you eat is bliss.
 
 
grant
15:46 / 29.01.07
This link (ganked off reddit) should go to page 2.

I think this passage sums up the argument as I understand it:

No single event marked the shift from eating food to eating nutrients, though in retrospect a little-noticed political dust-up in Washington in 1977 seems to have helped propel American food culture down this dimly lighted path. Responding to an alarming increase in chronic diseases linked to diet — including heart disease, cancer and diabetes — a Senate Select Committee on Nutrition, headed by George McGovern, held hearings on the problem and prepared what by all rights should have been an uncontroversial document called “Dietary Goals for the United States.” The committee learned that while rates of coronary heart disease had soared in America since World War II, other cultures that consumed traditional diets based largely on plants had strikingly low rates of chronic disease. Epidemiologists also had observed that in America during the war years, when meat and dairy products were strictly rationed, the rate of heart disease temporarily plummeted.

Naïvely putting two and two together, the committee drafted a straightforward set of dietary guidelines calling on Americans to cut down on red meat and dairy products. Within weeks a firestorm, emanating from the red-meat and dairy industries, engulfed the committee, and Senator McGovern (who had a great many cattle ranchers among his South Dakota constituents) was forced to beat a retreat. The committee’s recommendations were hastily rewritten. Plain talk about food — the committee had advised Americans to actually “reduce consumption of meat” — was replaced by artful compromise: “Choose meats, poultry and fish that will reduce saturated-fat intake.”

A subtle change in emphasis, you might say, but a world of difference just the same. First, the stark message to “eat less” of a particular food has been deep-sixed; don’t look for it ever again in any official U.S. dietary pronouncement. Second, notice how distinctions between entities as different as fish and beef and chicken have collapsed; those three venerable foods, each representing an entirely different taxonomic class, are now lumped together as delivery systems for a single nutrient. Notice too how the new language exonerates the foods themselves; now the culprit is an obscure, invisible, tasteless — and politically unconnected — substance that may or may not lurk in them called “saturated fat.”

The linguistic capitulation did nothing to rescue McGovern from his blunder; the very next election, in 1980, the beef lobby helped rusticate the three-term senator, sending an unmistakable warning to anyone who would challenge the American diet, and in particular the big chunk of animal protein sitting in the middle of its plate. Henceforth, government dietary guidelines would shun plain talk about whole foods, each of which has its trade association on Capitol Hill, and would instead arrive clothed in scientific euphemism and speaking of nutrients, entities that few Americans really understood but that lack powerful lobbies in Washington.


In other words, what this author is describing as "science" is actually a (technologically based) political move to describe what we eat in terms of component parts rather than as recognizable things. It's not oatmeal, it's folate plus soluble fiber. This is probably also related to that 1950s science fiction dream of the meal-in-a-pill. Break everything down to component parts and ignore the ways these parts relate to one another....

This bit says something essentially the same:
Of course it’s also a lot easier to slap a health claim on a box of sugary cereal than on a potato or carrot, with the perverse result that the most healthful foods in the supermarket sit there quietly in the produce section, silent as stroke victims, while a few aisles over, the Cocoa Puffs and Lucky Charms are screaming about their newfound whole-grain goodness.

In other words, the politico-industrial complex is turning food into itemized commodity, which tends to "de-foodify" it.

I always sort of view pet chow or chicken feed with a bit of suspicion based on a similar sort of feeling. Is this actually, like, *food*?

Anyway, I'm not sure the problem here is the science as much as it is the engineering and marketing, as maintained by the politics of food packaging.
 
 
alas
17:03 / 29.01.07
I'm interested in all your responses. I don't think Pollan is, as a whole, anti-science. He believes there's value in what scientists do and he respects it, by and large. He does, however, have a great deal of respect for the kinds of trials and errors that have gone on for thousands of years of human history that have lead to sustainable ways of eating, so he advocates that we not eat anything our grandparents wouldn't have recognized as food.

(totally side question--grant, what do you feed your dog/cat? I admit I largely depend on the pet food industrial complex....)
 
 
grant
18:27 / 29.01.07
(We feed the dogs dog food, a variety of brands, and the cat gets Purina cat chow, and the chickens get layer feed and chicken feed made by I can't remember... but they all also get a fair amount of scraps and leftovers from whatever we're eating. I've made dog food in the past, but it's labor intensive.)

For the article, it's also important to point out that Pollan's argument is resting on food science -- he seems to be a big fan of food research, actually. Like his rap on Omega-3s versus Omega-6s on page 10 is pretty much research-based.

What he really seems to be doing is talking about culture -- naming a trend in our culture as "science" (or specifically as "nutritionism," which is really an ideology).

I can't help but feel like I've seen a lot of this before in Fast Food Nation.....
 
 
ibis the being
23:57 / 31.01.07
I'm so glad there was already a thread on this article, which I just read today. First let me post some thought I had already written on the article before engaging with what others have said here...

...It's hardly surprising that big business is responsible for this major cultural misstep, but it is enlightening to read about precisely how it influenced our current data on human nutrition. All of the information we get about our diets is tainted by someone, somewhere, trying to make money of us. So we are urged to eat more of this or that trendy nutrient - bran, fiber, vitamins, omega-3s, "good fats," you name it, and suddenly a plethora of new products pops up to fill the void in our diets. Fortified cereals, shakes, protein/cereal/power/diet bars, etc. Or we are urged to avoid the evil nutrient du jour - calories, fat, saturated fat, carbs, trans fat - and a plethora of new products pops up to offer evil-free dining option. Again, more cereals, shakes, bars, etc. Never is it said we should not eat or eat less of anything (not even dessert - after all, we can have sugar- and carb-free desserts!) because not eating means not spending and big business not making money.

The other crucial change in the American diet besides moving to greater consumption in general, was the move from food to food products, or put another way from food to food science. The 1977 Dietary Guidelines point to a change in the way we think about food from edible plants & animals to nutrient vehicles... in other words, a tomato is a delivery system for Vitamin C + Lycopene. Another vehicle for both would be a vitamin capsule. The food science emphasis devalues the biological integrity of actual food - the way every chemical and physical apect of it works together to nourish the body - as well as some of the more intangible aspects of actual food... its real flavors, textures, even the way that we eat it and enjoy it (or don't enjoy it) and how that affects the way our bodies use it. Science can only measure and appreciate what it has already discovered... when we see how often the attempt to extract vital nutrients into capsule form fails, we should get a picture of how much we still don't know - and should respect - about whole foods.

Perhaps the most chilling aspect of our ever-more-processed diets is that we are stripping away natural foods' structure in such a way that it will more quickly convert to sugar, and skyrocketing numbers of adults with type II diabetes are the result of that. It's like removing the time-release coating of an amphetamine pill to get a more immediate, and stronger, fix. As the author of Unhappy Meals writes,

The case of corn points up one of the key features of the modern diet: a shift toward increasingly refined foods, especially carbohydrates. Call it applied reductionism. Humans have been refining grains since at least the Industrial Revolution, favoring white flour (and white rice) even at the price of lost nutrients. Refining grains extends their shelf life (precisely because it renders them less nutritious to pests) and makes them easier to digest, by removing the fiber that ordinarily slows the release of their sugars. Much industrial food production involves an extension and intensification of this practice, as food processors find ways to deliver glucose — the brain’s preferred fuel — ever more swiftly and efficiently. Sometimes this is precisely the point, as when corn is refined into corn syrup; other times it is an
unfortunate byproduct of food processing, as when freezing food destroys the fiber that would slow sugar absorption.
So fast food is fast in this other sense too: it is to a considerable extent predigested, in effect, and therefore
more readily absorbed by the body. But while the widespread acceleration of the Western diet offers us the instant gratification of sugar, in many people (and especially those newly exposed to it) the “speediness” of this food overwhelms the insulin response and leads to Type II diabetes. As one nutrition expert put it to me, we’re in the middle of “a national experiment in mainlining glucose.”


I feel that my SO and I are doing a pretty good job of maintaining a healthy diet. We eat a lot of veggies, I make salads often, and if we get the munchies we eat bowls of raisin bran. Our biggest indulgences are egg & cheese sandwiches on the weekend (that I make) and the occasional pizza. I don't find it hard to eat this way, but then I've never been a huge junk food person. I think that some people, who have always eaten poorly, develop a palate that is only tuned in to the Umami station, that savory, MSG-like taste found in rich foods and animal products. But there are a lot of other beautiful flavors in real, whole foods that go unappreciated, and those are precisely the foods that are good for you.

... By the way, since alas brought it up, I could go on a whole separate spiel about dog/pet nutrition. Pretty much all of the so-called "grocery store brands" are garbage... look at Purina or Pedigree and how high on the list corn is. This is not because corn is good for dogs (it isn't; it's a common allergen and they don't digest it well) or that dogs need a lot of carbs (they don't; their diets should be meat based, and cats are obligate carnivores), its because it's a cheap filler and boosts the food's protein level on paper. If anyone's interested PM me or just read this very excellent site - The Dog Food Project.
 
 
grant
14:15 / 05.02.07
if we get the munchies we eat bowls of raisin bran

Insidious... is this Post or Kellogs?

I have a similar relationship with sweet yogurt and Cheerios.
 
 
ibis the being
17:25 / 05.02.07
It's actually Whole Foods 365 brand, the best, crispiest, tastiest raisin bran ever...
 
 
grant
19:54 / 06.02.07
Interesting to think what we might have been eating for breakfast before cereal flakes were invented.

---

Here's a thing from New Scientist last summer on antioxidants that may serve to illustrate the weird disconnect between substances-in-foods and foods:

The first antioxidant to produce disappointing results was beta carotene. Once a star among supplements, beta carotene pills were recommended to smokers to protect them against lung cancer. This was largely based on the observation, made in the 1970s, that people who ate a lot of carrots - which contain large quantities of beta carotene - had some protection against cancer.

In 1992 researchers at the US National Cancer Institute set about testing beta carotene. They recruited more than 18,000 people at high risk of developing lung cancer, either because they smoked or had been exposed to asbestos, and gave around half of them beta carotene supplements. The trial was supposed to run for six years, but the researchers pulled the plug two-thirds of the way through after discovering, to their surprise and horror, that those taking supplements were faring worse than the controls. Their lung cancer rate was 28 per cent higher, and the overall death rate was up 17 per cent. "It was a shock. It not only did no good but had the potential to do harm," Halliwell says.
 
 
Red Concrete
22:15 / 06.02.07
Yes, as an undergraduate biochemist I was taught how immune cells use oxygen radicals as a lethal weapon in the immune system (including against, yes, cancerous cells). So antioxidants are not a good idea for protecting against cancer... In the end, it's swings and roundabouts, probably.
 
 
ibis the being
23:00 / 06.02.07
Pollan also mentioned the beta carotene confusion....

Also, people don’t eat nutrients, they eat foods, and foods can behave very differently than the nutrients they contain. Researchers have long believed, based on epidemiological comparisons of different populations, that a diet high in fruits and vegetables confers some protection against cancer. So naturally they ask, What nutrients in those plant foods are responsible for that effect? One hypothesis is that the antioxidants in fresh produce — compounds like beta carotene, lycopene, vitamin E, etc. — are the X factor. It makes good sense: these molecules (which plants produce to protect themselves from the highly reactive oxygen atoms produced in photosynthesis) vanquish the free radicals in our bodies, which can damage DNA and initiate cancers. At least that’s how it seems to work in the test tube. Yet as soon as you remove these useful molecules from the context of the whole foods they’re found in, as we’ve done in creating antioxidant supplements, they don’t work at all. Indeed, in the case of beta carotene ingested as a supplement, scientists have discovered that it actually increases the risk of certain cancers. Big oops.

What’s going on here? We don’t know. It could be the vagaries of human digestion. Maybe the fiber (or some other component) in a carrot protects the antioxidant molecules from destruction by stomach acids early in the digestive process. Or it could be that we isolated the wrong antioxidant. Beta is just one of a whole slew of carotenes found in common vegetables; maybe we focused on the wrong one. Or maybe beta carotene works as an antioxidant only in concert with some other plant chemical or process; under other circumstances, it may behave as a pro-oxidant.

Indeed, to look at the chemical composition of any common food plant is to realize just how much complexity lurks within it. Here’s a list of just the antioxidants that have been identified in garden-variety thyme:

4-Terpineol, alanine, anethole, apigenin, ascorbic acid, beta carotene, caffeic acid, camphene, carvacrol, chlorogenic acid, chrysoeriol, eriodictyol, eugenol, ferulic acid, gallic acid, gamma-terpinene isochlorogenic acid, isoeugenol, isothymonin, kaempferol, labiatic acid, lauric acid, linalyl acetate, luteolin, methionine, myrcene, myristic acid, naringenin, oleanolic acid, p-coumoric acid, p-hydroxy-benzoic acid, palmitic acid, rosmarinic acid, selenium, tannin, thymol, tryptophan, ursolic acid, vanillic acid.

This is what you’re ingesting when you eat food flavored with thyme. Some of these chemicals are broken down by your digestion, but others are going on to do undetermined things to your body: turning some gene’s expression on or off, perhaps, or heading off a free radical before it disturbs a strand of DNA deep in some cell. It would be great to know how this all works, but in the meantime we can enjoy thyme in the knowledge that it probably doesn’t do any harm (since people have been eating it forever) and that it may actually do some good (since people have been eating it forever) and that even if it does nothing, we like the way it tastes.


I automatically bristle at the folksy notion of "we don't know why and who cares... it's always been good before" - it's intellectually unsatisfying, and yet - I think that I do actually eat that way. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, based on what we know about other areas of human health, that the old ways are necessarily the best path to health and longevity - see the cereal article Grant posted - but I think that Pollan makes a very convincing argument for eating "nutrients" in their natural state. If we don't fully understand food yet, is it too early to begin breaking it down to molecular gastronomy when we eat it?
 
 
Evil Scientist
13:29 / 08.02.07
So antioxidants are not a good idea for protecting against cancer... In the end, it's swings and roundabouts, probably.

The argument here is that antioxidants help to mop up free radicals in the body which might be a contributing factor in the development of cancerous cells due to the damage they do to the DNA of healthy cells.
 
 
astrojax69
01:41 / 12.02.07
on theme, i read today this from the guardian.

it's an article debunking gillian mckeith. i had never previously heard of the woman, and now i am sure i don't want to! but a good addendum to the above conversation...

i particularly like this line - an astute and crystalising comment:

"It's like the difference between astrology and astronomy."
 
 
Tryphena Absent
11:53 / 12.02.07
I was just popping in to link to that article but you got there first! It's truly a thing of beauty.
 
 
Red Concrete
17:40 / 12.02.07
I'd never heard of her either, but she sounds like a real charlatan. Comsidering her methods, I wouldn't be surprised if she sues, and considering how well versed the author sounded it could well be an invitation to her to sue. If it happens, I'll be posting in the schadenfreude thread...

Evil Scientist I understand the mechanism, in fact oxidants can do a lot of damage to virtually anything, although it would be interesting to see how much realistic levels of circulating "oxidants" in vivo increase cancer rates. I suspect there are large passive, and probably active buffers. I might post back if I have time to do some reading.
 
 
illmatic
14:42 / 16.02.07
Off-topic, but McKeith is right up there with barefoot doc, isn't she?
 
 
Red Concrete
23:09 / 27.02.07
A new meta-analysis on anti-oxidants is just out, if you have a subscription via University for example, here, but I picked up the report on Ars Technica here. Headline findings are of no effect on mortality of a range of anti-oxidant supplements. Limiting the analysis to studies with less chance of bias, vitamins E, A and beta carotene were associated with increased mortality (4%, 16% and 7% respectively).
 
  
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