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Take That: Back for Good?

 
  

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Whisky Priestess
12:55 / 26.01.07
I wasn't really a fan until now.

But then everything changed.

Basically, last night I was watching Celebrity Big Brother, or possibly that hilarious documentary about Justin Lee Collins trying to make it as a Tom Jones impersonator. And afterwards the continuity announcer said "Stick around for a video of Take That's brand new single Shine!" and I thought yeah, what the hell, beats working, so I watched it.

And it's REALLY GOOD. Ultimate bouncetastic Beatles-lite pop tune sung by the cute one with the Manchester accent and the slight lisp (Mark I think).

The video's super too; sort of MGM musical meets Metropolis. Mark's giving it the soft shoe shuffle in top hat, white tie and tails, swaying and tip-top-tapping like the bastard offspring of the Duracell Bunny and a Weeble. Gary's at the piano, in tails, only shot from above (presumably due to weight issues), and the other two (Howard and Jason?) appear for subliminal snatches of time, lit by what appears to be the blast from a supernova, mainly because they look SO ROUGH.

(I'm really not kidding, they look like they've both been living with cancer, on the streets, for the last decade; the post-Pray years clearly having not been kind. I haven't seen hobo stubble like that since the last time I went for a drink with Smoothly. No offence, like).

And it's sort of lovely and poignant and faintly, joyously ridiculous to watch these ageing boy-band luminaries breakdance and piano-jump like the last chorus boys in the shop to such a chirpy, infectious tune ... I wish them all their well-deserved success with this song; if there's any justice in the world it's already number 1 and I'm the last person in Britain to know about it.

Viddy, as Russell Brand would say, this
... and tell me it's not brilliant.

(Also, once you have recovered from the joycoreness, please feel free to expand this thread to discussion of Take That past, present and future, favourite colours and who's-gay speculation included)
 
 
Princess
13:34 / 26.01.07
Thankyou Russel, for keeping Nadsat alive and well in our post Burgess dystopia.

/offtopic
 
 
Whisky Priestess
13:49 / 26.01.07
But did you viddy the video?

You MUST viddy the video!
 
 
Alex's Grandma
14:48 / 26.01.07
I would viddy the vid, but I can't.

I just can't.

I remember seeing Jason Orange 'laying a cable' in the pond outside my old college, and then Gary and Howard jumped in and then they ... confused (I have to tell myself this) it for a hotdog.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
15:26 / 26.01.07
You'll forgive them all. Just watch it.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
15:28 / 26.01.07
I've also found myself with a great deal of time and affection for Take That since their rebirth. It helps that I started liking them (grudgingly, and with some embarrassment, because I was a fan of Suede, Elastica, Bowie, Portishead, whatever) just before they broke up ~ Back For Good and Never Forget, wasn't it?

I think there really is joy in their return ~ joy from what seems their genuine gratitude to be back, to be accepted, to be able to draw any kind of crowd, let alone a stadium, to be able to get any kind of sales, let alone a number one. It's as though they can't believe they've been given a second chance, and they're loving every second of it.

There's also that weird mid-90s nostalgia, of course ~ the same "fuck, was that really ten years ago" that we got with This Life ~ inevitably you associate them and their hits with a certain period in your life, places you lived, people you hung out with, and of course you were a bit younger and prettier at the time. And it's cheering, as you grew up during those ten years yourself, that here are four guys, surely in their mid-30s, who look pretty good and can perform the same athletic routines they did a decade ago, albeit with their tongues now in their cheeks.

And finally, I love it that they have the potential to knock R Williams off his cocky, sneery, crook-mouthed perch.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
15:34 / 26.01.07
Well, I didn't think the world needed another Metropolis-inspired video, but that was pretty fun: I really dug the Chrysler-building CGI and what looked like an army of Kylie-backing-bots. It was like some 1930s cross-culture collision: MGM musical meets modernist architecture.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
15:35 / 26.01.07
sort of MGM musical meets Metropolis.

I skimmed the first post before, so I didn't steal this! We must both be right, then.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
15:42 / 26.01.07
...

They were really giving it their all in that, the guys, it seemed.

Perhaps everything they had left. Every ... last drop of ... it.

Mark 'impish' Owen will never be able to do that again. And neither will the big man on the piano.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:59 / 31.01.07
Remember when Gary Barlow was the suave, smug, punchable, more respected-by-idiots and more successful of the two, and Robbie Williams was the plucky, paunchy, everyman underdog?

I love the way pop music can be like a really well-written TV drama sometimes. Seasons change, the wheel turns.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
10:44 / 31.01.07
Why yes indeed. But Barlow was always the talented one.

Re this:



posted (aw) in the hate and anger thread ...

Apparently Take That played a lot of gay clubs in the early years because the gay clubs were a lot easier to book (especially with a boy band I expect) - but I don't think TT ever pretended to be gay, or not gay, or whatever (although IIRC one member is, either Howard or Jason I think).

Might be amusing to make the remaining members do a reprise of the bums-out photo above fifteen years on though. Well, either amusing or very, very unappealing. Although at least this time they'll have the right number of buttocks to spell the band's name.
 
 
Princess
11:10 / 31.01.07
Has anyone seen the Jelly video?
 
 
Whisky Priestess
12:36 / 31.01.07
Oh yes.

Oh dear.

Just for you, Princess.

Look, they're just exuberant young men having some good, clean, healthy fun. With jelly.

I'm bloody impressed by Jason and Howard's dance-fu though. Backflips and everything. I'd like to see them try that these days ...
 
 
Quantum
14:33 / 31.01.07
Sorry all you TT lovers, I'm here responding to some crit in the rage thread.

They look and sound gay, and that's bad?

They look and sound bad, in a particularly manufactured way similar to many boybands, which (I cynically presume) is carefully designed to appeal to some specific high-consumption pop markets i.e. young ladies and gay men. It's not bad to look and sound gay, In My Humble Opinion it's bad to look like an image driven manufactured pop dance combo wearing too much white silk and standing in front of bright lights for that pseudo-religious presentation (see also Michael Jackson on that last point obv.)
In contrast, the Village People are ace. Better songs, costumes and voices than TT, and far enough into the past to be kitsch, which TT are (IMHO) not. It's not bad to look and sound gay. I never said it was.

People only like them because they fancy them? Because of course, gay men and women do that kind of shit, their critical faculties get blinded by their lust...

I like (e.g.) Natalie Imbruglia, Pink, All Saints (the shame!) and a slew of others because they are fit more than I love their music. Sex sells, allegedly, otherwise the pop music pinup poster industry wouldn't be as busy as it is. Because I don't like TT, I scandalously allege that their image may be as/more important as their music. I'm not saying the stoopid gayz and girlz are blinded by lust, I'm saying *everyone* is blinded by lust if that's the way you choose to phrase it. In fact, if you'll allow the generalisation, het men are sold artists using sex even more than boy-fanciers.

And nobody could actually like music that sounds different from wot you like, could they? They must be lying - perhaps even to themselves! False consciousness, 11, 23!

Oh please. If you read me as setting up my taste as the objective benchmark of good music, then I apologise, allow me to clarify- people have different tastes. My taste leads me to detest Take That. If other people like them, well and good, that does not reduce them as people nor make me think they are fools or idiots, the music people like is a tiny and transient part of their personality and IMHO not a reflection on their worth. I hope in return other people will not think less of me as a person for admitting I like music they detest. Like All-Saints, say, who arguably are targets for all the criticisms I lay at the prancing feet of Take That.

C'mon, guy. You can do better than this.

Erm, so can you? Projecting homophobia and misogyny onto a post about a boyband because I say they look like rent boys is a bit dodge if you ask me. Well done to keep the -ism alert high but c'mon. I don't care if the band are gay or not, they annoy the piss out of me and one reason is their image- look at the pic above and tell me that's not aimed at people who find young fit men sexually attractive.
 
 
Quantum
14:38 / 31.01.07
Might be amusing to make the remaining members do a reprise of the bums-out photo above fifteen years on though.

Just Eeuw. My mind's eye is blinded. Thanks for that.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
15:33 / 31.01.07
I don't understand this thread anymore. Has another thread contributed to it at an invisible angle?
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
15:44 / 31.01.07
See hate/rage in Convo, Wonderstarr. Quantam was raging there to try to keep from bringing WP down in this thread, but it was getting a bit rotty and Callsign called him on some stuff. Hence the quotey bits here.
 
 
Ticker
15:49 / 31.01.07
the 'do what you like' vid is a great example of splosh. I'm going to go torment the spouse with it as he is a bit incredulous that folks dig it.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
15:56 / 31.01.07
Oh I see.

Well, as I've made clear, I'm not really a die-hard Take That fan. They have a nostalgic appeal for me; I could quite possibly rediscover and take pleasure in their earlier work, and now I've just bought the best of Steps and S Club, TT could easily be next on my list. I feel a fondness for them as valiant troopers, creators of minor-classic-pop and as enthusiastic, fun, tongue-in-cheek entertainers ~ something slightly akin to, but less intense than, what I feel for Kylie, I suppose.

So I'm not blinkered by love for or loyalty to Take That. The comment below offends my love of POP, as much as anything.


Seriously though, can you really claim to love 'It only takes a minute (girl)'? Why would anyone listen to their tripe if they didn't fancy one of the band?


I can see this kind of attitude being applied to Girls Aloud, for instance... and I don't like the stink of it! What's really wrong with "It Only Takes A Minute"? Nothing much that isn't also wrong with "Don't Stop Movin'", "Tragedy", "Better the Devil You Know" ~ quite possibly, the same criticism could be levelled at "Some Girls", "Freak Like Me", "Graffiti My Soul". If you're going to mock a pop song for having slightly inane, even meaningless lyrics, then very many great pop songs are going to be in the same firing line.

And that's dangerous talk.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
16:01 / 31.01.07
The notion that someone can only like pop music, with its lyrics that perhaps don't stand up to the closest lit-crit analysis, if they fancy a member of the band, also has implications beyond Take That, and I am very wary of it for the same reasons. To be generous, I think it's the attitude of someone outside of ~ untouched and unmoved by ~ mainstream pop music. But I think it's quite an insulting attitude. In a neutral sense, it is an ignorant attitude ~ it's based on just not knowing and understanding.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
16:08 / 31.01.07
To be fair, Quantum, you name pop artists you like, but... I just don't connect with this bit.

I like (e.g.) Natalie Imbruglia, Pink, All Saints (the shame!) and a slew of others because they are fit more than I love their music.
I'm saying *everyone* is blinded by lust if that's the way you choose to phrase it.


I can't dig why someone would listen to a pop artist MORE because they fancy them, than because they like the music. That seems topsy-turvy to me. In my mind, a pop star's looks are a bonus, and you might even find them more attractive because you love their songs, whereas in isolation their looks might not especially appeal. But maybe I'm the odd one out here, I don't know.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:29 / 31.01.07
the best of Steps and S Club

S Club? You... you... Nazi!!!
 
 
miss wonderstarr
16:30 / 31.01.07
I know... more innocent times
 
 
Blake Head
16:49 / 31.01.07
The Sun, newly reborn as a champion of the victims of hatespeech, reports that Take That themselves might have issues with regards to their application of the term “gay”.
 
 
Blake Head
17:01 / 31.01.07
I don’t agree that some pop bands should be excused from creating meaningful lyrics when others are more than capable of it. I’m disappointed that there hasn’t been a similar wave of support for the recent reformation of East 17, who were able to combine equally rhythmic pop tunes with superior songwriting and a sincere and authentic message that Take That could never match. And they obviously had a massive influence and popularising effect on the UK hip-hop scene, which I think far too few critics are prepared to recognise.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:16 / 31.01.07
Girls Aloud don't have "meaningful" lyrics ~ it could easily be argued that their lyrics are near-meaningless ~ but they're nevertheless great lyrics when part of the song package. They fit perfectly within that form. The lyrics are not meant to stand alone, any more than a full stop in a Larkin poem is meant to be examined on its own. Girls Aloud's lyrics are just a part of what Girls Aloud's art consists of ~ and that art only comes to pass when the lyrics are combined with Xenomania, Cheryl, Nadine, Kimberley, trashbag and whoever.

Look at this thread.

We are getting a great deal from talking about Girls Aloud's songwords and what they might conceivably mean. But we are mostly talking about those words as part of the SONG.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:21 / 31.01.07
sincere and authentic message

Seriously though, what does that even mean, in pop? "So Under Pressure" was apparently written by Dannii Minogue, from the heart, about how she felt during her sister's breast cancer trauma. It's about how much Dannii Minogue suffered while Kylie had cancer! Sure, that's authentic and tells us something about Dannii, but does that mean it's a better song than "I Begin to Wonder"? It possibly is, but not for that reason.

Does "Deadlines and Diets" become a better song if I read that it's really about a genuine experience a member of Girls Aloud has gone through? Is "Never Forget" inauthentic and insincere, as Take That's farewell anthem?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:39 / 31.01.07
And we're talking about the lyrics of East 17? I can't find their songwords online but... Steam? Deep? Didn't they write the couplet

We'll take a shower, maybe bubble a bath.
Yes girl... [pause to make it scan]
We'll ave a good laugh.

As I said, I don't think pop needs sincere, authentic or meaningful lyrics, but if I was setting up East 17 as my champions, I wouldn't go playing the lyrics as my trump card.
 
 
illmatic
17:45 / 31.01.07
Quants, I really, really like Take That and have done for years, and am double chuffed to see them making a comeback. I have fond memories of learning to love the pop while listening to their Greatest Hits, before going out on the piss when I was a student. I do think there's an implied "false consciousness" - as it implies that there must be some reason for listening to them beyond the music themselves. However, you seem to have retracted it so fair enough.

I like the new song a lot also, and the video - and more on topic, the video reminded me a little of the routine Davy Jones (of the Monkees) does in their film Head. Top hat and tails, alternating black and white. Possibly this is a bit of a stretch as DJ's routine is far more psychedelic but it might be a slight nod.

I do think the comment posted above is really dismissive and doens't allow for permutations of taste. I do not (as far as I'm aware) fancy any of the band members - on the other hand Good on you for keeping it out of this thread, but really, I can't see where the bile comes from.
 
 
illmatic
17:51 / 31.01.07
I can't actually find that amazing scene (From Head) on Youtube but this is what Frank Zappa has to say about it.Check it out, its pretty profound.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:55 / 31.01.07
I know I keep hammering on! But it's an interesting discussion.

In My Humble Opinion it's bad to look like an image driven manufactured pop dance combo wearing too much white silk and standing in front of bright lights for that pseudo-religious presentation

I really don't think this is bad. I'm not going to try to persuade you, obviously, but it's interesting that I honestly don't see that as horrendous. I mean, "too much" clearly implies overkill, but can you have too much white silk, anyway?



In contrast, the Village People are ace. Better songs, costumes and voices than TT,


I think this is quite hard to judge objectively.

and far enough into the past to be kitsch, which TT are (IMHO) not.

And this is a curious argument. You're really saying that kitschy performance is only OK if enough time has passed for it to be... nostalgic, or enjoyed ironically, I suppose. So, if the Village People released YMCA now, you'd criticise it on the grounds you criticise Take That? And the same would apply if they'd released it in 1993, presumably.
 
 
illmatic
17:59 / 31.01.07
Oooh, I found it! In the cold light of actuality (as opposed to the addled fog of my memories), it bears no resembelance to the Take That video, but I'm posting it anyway. 'Cos it's awesome (and TONI BASIL is in it).

Apologies for threadrot.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:29 / 31.01.07
Dear Dr Quantum:

I've never particularly liked anything that Take That have been involved in before now, but I like this song and I like this video.

Have I caught Teh Ghey?
 
 
Blake Head
19:56 / 31.01.07
Miss W: I respect your opinion on the benefit of lyrics which complement the song as a whole, but I think that you’re underestimating the East 17 boys’ ability to both deliver a perfect pop song and at the same time employ lyrics that give that song a deeper meaning. I think it’s that genre-spanning quality that’s evident in the award-wining lyrics for ‘Stay Another Day’ where lyrics which superficially appear to belong to a slick love song can also be interpreted as a complex, heartfelt request to a member of Tony Mortimer’s family – and I think it’s that comprehension of double meaning that’s crucial to a reading of their work. Additionally, songs like Let It Rain, which possess a deeply modern, innovative and above all catchy delivery, contain lyrics and metaphors which have a pressing, relevant message whose authenticity and importance I think it would be unwise to dismiss, whilst also situating the group as true poets within the English prophetic tradition.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:01 / 31.01.07
I feel like I'm caught in the FLUX-SPACE between EARTH-SINCERITY and EARTH-IRONY! If I can just PUNCH my way THRU
 
  

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