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Underground > Books, Criticism & Writing >

George R.R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" series

18:47 / 15.01.07

I'd like to get a convo going about this series. Does anyone like it, hate it? Anything.

Tom Paine's Bones

22:58 / 15.01.07

I haven't actually read the latest one yet (so if anybody's planning to post any spoilers I'd appreciate prior warning so I can vacate the thread).

Generally I've been very impressed by the series so far though. Two main strengths stand out for me.

His world seems very plausible. I always get the feeling that the world is in existence outside the events being described in the books. While the politics of the books are quite complicated, they never seem too fantastical. His handling of magic is nice as well. While we're obviously talking about a magical world, I like the fact that the magic is played rather lowkey. Particuarly when compared to some other fantasy books where I find the magic tends to dominate everything else.

I also like his characterisation a lot. His protagonists are largely well rounded and have flaws and strengths outside the hero/villain divide. (Tyrion in particular is a marvellously complicated character). As well as that, they seem to grow and actually be affected by their experiences, as you'd expect people to be. His ruthlessness with his characters is rather staggering as well. Without wanting to post spoilers myself, he really isn't an author who shies away from killing off previously crucial characters for the sake of the plot. I like that. I find the books genuinely unpredictable.

What do you like about them?

04:23 / 16.01.07

Simply some of the best fantasy out there. Everything is wonderfully tied together and you'ld never see a ridiculous deus ex machina moment being used by Martin to save his plot for him. The characters, even the 'evil' ones, are often very easy to identify with, and when they're in a bit of a spot it can get your heart racing because you're well aware Martin will happily kill any of them if thats what the book demands. I can't wait for the next one.

10:52 / 16.01.07

What do you like about them?

Well you covered a lot of the stuff I like about the series. I love that there are rarely good/bad guys (like you said). Everyone's got a bit of grey in them. (I find it hard to believe that more writers can't pull off creating these kind of deep characters -- Martin just took those chances I guess.)

Also, as you mentioned, I love that any character is fair game to bite the dust. I won't spoil anything here, but come on! It takes a lot of guts to create fantastic characters and then destroy them.

I guess that's what I like the most about Martin. He takes the chances we want all of our favorite artists to take.

12:36 / 17.01.07

By the way, I just say the cover for the new Dunk and Egg mini-series from Dabel Bros/Marvel. It looks good and I'm pretty darned excited.

17:52 / 17.01.07

I read the first one and liked it, but I think it'll be a while before I start the second. I don't read a lot of fantasy, so maybe it's a genre issue, but I felt that it could have been a lot tighter. I realize that some of these characters will be important later, but I didn't always feel that every character who got his/her own sections needed to have his/her own sections in the first volume of the series. As interesting a character as Jon was, for instance, just all that happened to him in his sections of the first volume could have been summed up in a few chapters of the second. As it was, I felt that too many voices pursuing plots of their own dragged down the pace of the central plot a bit and thus made the book occasionally feel like a chore to read. I'll probably read the second at some point, but not for a while.

17:56 / 17.01.07

Yeah, the first three progrssively get better. I've not read the fourth one yet.

I understand what you mean by the amount of pages devoted to seemingly unimportant plots. I liked it all though, like sipping a fine wine. That's basically because I don't think I've ever read anything as good in the ENTIRE genre.

Tom Paine's Bones

19:28 / 17.01.07

It's worth perservering I think. I know what you mean. I'm shamed to admit I kept on having to check who the bloody hell people were throughout the first book. The amount of subplots becomes easier to deal with though, simply because you start to get more used both to the characters and Martin's writing style.

20:02 / 17.01.07

In other news:

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117957532.html?categoryid=1236&cs=1&p=0

HBO turns 'Fire' into fantasy series
Cabler acquires rights to Martin's 'Ice'
By MICHAEL FLEMING

George R.R. Martin series
HBO has acquired the rights to turn George R.R. Martin's bestselling fantasy series "A Song of Fire & Ice" into a dramatic series to be written and exec produced by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss.

"Fire" is the first TV project for Benioff ("Troy") and Weiss ("Halo") and will shoot in Europe or New Zealand. Benioff and Weiss will write every episode of each season together save one, which the author (a former TV writer) will script.

The series will begin with the 1996 first book, "A Game of Thrones," and the intention is for each novel (they average 1,000 pages each) to fuel a season's worth of episodes. Martin has nearly finished the fifth installment, but won't complete the seven-book cycle until 2011.

The author will co-exec produce the series along with Management 360's Guymon Casady and Created By's Vince Gerardis.

Martin's series has drawn comparisons to J.R.R. Tolkien, because both are period epics set in imagined lands. But Martin has eschewed Tolkien's good-vs.-evil theme in favor of flawed characters from seven noble families.

The book has a decidedly adult bent, with sex and violence comparable to series like "Rome" and "Deadwood."

"They tried for 50 years to make 'Lord of the Rings' as one movie before Peter Jackson found success making three," Martin said. "My books are bigger and more complicated, and would require 18 movies. Otherwise, you'd have to choose one or two characters."

Aside from writing the most recent draft of "Halo," Weiss recently adapted the William Gibson novel "Pattern Recognition" for WB and director Peter Weir.

Benioff and Weiss were repped by CAA and Management 360.

20:43 / 17.01.07

You'd better not be puttin' me on!!

This is the best news I think I've ever heard!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure that there've been countless conversations by Martin's fans saying things like, "The only true way to bring this to the screen would be if it were an HBO show."

I guess someone finally said it to the right person.

I'm blown away!!!!!!!

01:33 / 11.04.08

I'm a little more than halfway through book three and wow, things just kicked up a notch. I thought book one, particularly the end of it was great, but book two dragged at times. However, there's a couple of major twists in book three that were just crazy. And, now I can see what people mean about killing off characters, things went south very quickly.

I can see why people have issues with the pacing, I think there's a lot of events that don't necessarily need to happen. Arya's story feels like it's been going down the same paths forever, but I guess that's essential to making it feel real. The people live their lives over time, and the big events feel bigger because we've been with them for so long.