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HDTV

 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
18:33 / 14.01.07
So I'm thinking about buying an HDTV, finally. I recently got a 360, and my cable package already includes all the HD goodies. Considering that the only things I use my TV for are video games and watching sports, HD and me seems to be a match made in heaven.

Unfortunately, there's too much information out there. Each TV has a laundry list of specs that I have little interest in. Ideally, I see myself spending less than $1000 for something in the neighborhood of a 30 inch widescreen jobby, the cheaper the better. Are off-brands a terrible idea? Because you seem to get a lot more TV for your dollar if you buy an off-brand model. Do I want 1080i or 1080p? What's the difference? Should I care?

There seems to be a whole cult of HDTV-worship, with people adhering to a certain brand or model and defending it to the death, while disparaging everyone else's TV. I have no time for these zealots, and their opinions do not interest me. I just want my video games and sports to look awesome.

So, Barbelith? There must be people out there who can guide me through the bullshit of the HDTV world and help me bring one into my home, where it will be loved. If all goes well, I'll be watching the Patriots systematically destroy Peyton Manning's spirit (again) in glorious HD next Sunday.
 
 
Ender
06:16 / 15.01.07
I can tell you this much, brands dont really matter that much (at least for now) with HDtvs. They are still, for a time, a luxery item. Junk producers have not really, in my experience, hit the market yet.

And as for specs, think about your HDtv experience to be similiar to your first few bottles of wine. If this is your first HDtv you will be blown away at just what the standard, non beefed up, version can do that you wont notice that you dont have the very finest quality. After you have had the TV for a few years you will really understand the differences and at that time you wont need to ask anyone because you will know what you want in a TV, and you will have more than $1000 to invest in one.

So my advice for now, just buy a nice 30 Sanyo, dont worry about the extra features, and spend the money you saved on a surround sound package.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:09 / 15.01.07
Do I want 1080i or 1080p? What's the difference? Should I care?

The 'i' and 'p' after those numbers stand for 'interlaced' and 'progressive scan'. There was a decent Wikipedia entry explaining this stuff, but I've not kept the link, so you'll have to do with my garbled explanation for now. Unless somebody else can explain it more clearly after this post.

You know how your regular TV kind of draws the picture line-by-line, but so fast that you can't see it doing so? I think this is why when you see tv sets in films and television shows they have that weird flickery thing going on. Anyway, an interlaced picture is one where the set is only drawing every other line of the image during a single refresh. On its second pass, it'll draw the other half of the lines. Again, your eyes don't notice this happening and fill in the blanks for you, making the two images into one.

A progressive scan image draws all of the lines of the image in a single pass. You're getting the full resolution as it should be, rather than half of the resolution pretending to be the full thing by fooling your crappy human brain.

1080p is pointless for your 360 gaming needs right now, because the hardware doesn't currently support it (and, obviously, nor does any of the software). I suppose you might want to think about it in terms of future-proofing your investment - the 360 is, apparently, going to do 1080p at some point in the future and the PS3 already does, but personally I'm not at all fussed. I mean, it's a 26" set I've got here, I doubt I'd really notice the difference unless I had a screen the size of... I dunno, the moon or something.

The other things you'll want to check out if you're looking at different sets is the basic tech behind them. I've got an LCD set, but there are plasma screens and, er, others. I can't remember, because I only gave the others a cursory look, due to them being far more expensive than the LCD ones. Oh, and you *can* get CRT sets - cathode ray tube, like your regular standard def telly - that output a high def image, but they're generally fucking enormous or else not brilliantly reliable. Cheaper, but still not cheap enough that you wouldn't notice the money getting sucked from your wallet, so you might as well pay that bit more for something sturdier and less.. well, less bloody huge.

Things to keep an eye on when measuirng different LCD sets against each other:

Response time. This'll be measured in milliseconds and reflects how badly affected the screen is by after-images. If you've played on a PSP, you'll understand. You know how the fast-moving games on that machine all look like they employ a motion blur effect? They don't. It's just that the screen's got a shitty response time. Afaik, a general rule of thumb is that anything higher than 12 or 14ms isn't going to be suitable for gaming, because the image will be a blurry mess. I know this bit first-hand - before I bought the new telly, I tried playing the 360 through my PC monitor. Dead or Alive 4 ended up confuising my eyes, the response time of the screen was so poor (30ms, or something like that). More that alright for using PC applications, bollocks for playing anything with half a pulse on.

LCD screens also have a bit of a problem with colour depth. It's most noticable with blacks and greys, where the screen won't distinguish between them as effectively as a good old standard def CRT can. That's just something that you have to learn to put up with, but there's another specification that'll help you out here. You need to look for the contrast ratio - on my set, it's 3000:1. Don't ask whether a higher ratio is better than a lower one, because I can't remember - you'll want to search around online tech sites before spending the cash. All this stuff does make a difference, so it's well worth being informed.

Oh, and inputs. You'll want to make sure you've got the right inputs on the back of the thing and the right number of them. A proper HD set will either have an HDMI input or else it'll support HDCP over DVI. HDMI is some kind of security thingy that's apparently going to be used to copy-protect HD material, so making sure that the set you plump for does either of those. They're both the same thing, just require different cables.

REmains to be seen whether or not that makes any odds, though. I thought that the PS3 was meant to be using HDMI, but that's not been the case so far as far as I can tell. It's the movie studios that have been making the biggest noise about it, but when you consider that tvs bought more than something like eighteen months ago don't have HDMI functionality, you've got to wonder if they'll bother or not. Are they really going to piss off all those people who bought into the HD revolution earlier than a year and a half back? Doubt it.

If it helps any, this is the one I ended up buying. The only problems I've had are that the speakers aren't great - which doesn't matter, because I just plug the audio outputs from whatever I'm playing on it into my hi-fi instead - and it doesn't like displaying a 4:3 image at the correct ratio on certain gaming machines. This, though, might be something to do with those machines, rather than the screen - I'm still trying to figure that one out. rotational's got the exact same set as me and hasn't encountered this issue himself, so it's either than my tv's screwed or there's something wrong with a couple of my consoles.

Otherwise, it's great. Fucking thig's come down in price by a ton in the space of six months, but never mind.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:20 / 15.01.07
Ah, here you go: that Wikipedia page about interlaced and prog scan images.

The other thing that you have to learn to put up with on an HDTV is that the image from standard def sources can look really shitty, much worse than when you play those things on SDTV. It's because the HD set has more pixelks, so it's expanding the SD image to fit. In terms of gaming, how much of an effect it has largely depends on the source and the specific game that you're p[laying - my Super Famicom looks lovely on it (Yoshi's Island is gorgeous), but a lot of PS2 games look arse.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
18:42 / 15.01.07
Uh-oh. Will the Wii look shitty? Because that's kind of a deal-breaker. I still can't find the fucking thing, but I'll have one in theory, and a lot of hours will no doubt be logged. My apartment is too small to make keeping my old TV practical. As far as Hollywood goes, I don't really watch movies or DVDs or anything. Sports, videogames and the occasional foray into Comedy Central or Cartoon Network are what I get up to. I've already given my Gamecube and PS2 away, so no worries there. Not planning on getting a PS3, either, at least not unless Final Fantasy XIII looks like a must-have, and that's like three years away.

Yours looks good, Randy, but unfortunately I can't find it on the US Amazon. This one looks okay and is really affordable, but I'm afaid that it's really fat and awkward. This one is closest to yours, and looks much better for $160 more. I'm such a waffler when it comes to buying big stuff like this. I fear the wide range of choices.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
18:43 / 15.01.07
Forgot to link the second one.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:39 / 15.01.07
The Sammys are really nice and were originally the make that Microsoft decided to link the 360 to, in a "recommended for Xbox" kind of way. Their standard def output is notoriously iffy - not poor, but not amazing.

I saw a photo of somebody playing a Gamecube game through a Sony Bravia the other week and nearly melted. Beautiful. Possibly not much more expensive - I really don't know. Best thing to do would be to have a look around a few stores, see what you think, then find whichever set you go for at a lower price online. Bearing in mind that your chain stores never have their HDTVs set up properly, so you don't get anything like a decent representation of what the image will look like when you've got it home and gone through the setup stuff yourself - you might want to have a look around smaller, specialist AV stores instead.

Me, I just gave up worrying about it and went for one that I knew did what I wanted of it. I'd heard good things about the Sammys before, from other people who'd bought them for the 360.

The Wii should look perfectly fine, just so long as you plug it into the tv with a component cable. It outputs at 480p through that - I've got a couple of PS2 games that support that resolution and they look fantastic.

Don't get component confused with composite, by the way. I kept doing that for a while. Composite - or, more popularly, composhite - refers to the cable that splits into three input jacks - one yellow, one red and one white. Red and white are the left and right audio, whereas the yellow pushese through the entire visual image.

Component, on the other hand, has five jacks on the end of it - white and red for the stereo sound again, then green, blue and a second red. These last three split the image up into the three different colours of the visual spectrum used by televisions, which means a *far* sharper picture than composite. It's pretty easy to understand it when you think about it - the entire image getting shoved down one bit of cable is bound to look shit compared to the component parts of that image each being given their own bit of cable to travel down.

So yeah. Wii + component cable = lovely picture on HDTV. In fact, I'm pretty sure you need a component cable to output at 480p at all - otherwise, you'll be stuck with 480i, which is yr bog-standard SDTV image.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
19:44 / 15.01.07
Sweet. Thanks for all the info, Randy. the 26" Sony is only $30 more than the Samsung. You think there's a significant improvement?
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
19:46 / 15.01.07
I've been thinking about getting a projector, actually, but this thread is making me think that might be not such a hot plan. I know that projectors have tons of good inputs, including component, but it seems smarter to me to get a projector and a put-awayable screen (or just paint the wall white) rather than a space-occupying TV. And plug the projector into my laptop to run whatever I want off it -- DVDs, AVI, games, whatnot.

Am I missing something super awesome about HD that I'd be totally screwing myself on if I bought a decent projector?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:01 / 15.01.07
You need to have the space to project the image onto if you're taking the projector route. That and you need to be able to get the room dark enough that you're actually going to be able to see what it's throwing up, which isn't an issue with an LCD screen - one of the benefits of this screen, which I'd never even considered until I got it, is that I don't have to draw the blinds every time I want to play a game on it, because unlike my old CRT the screen isn't glossy and so doesn't suffer from loads of reflected glare.

Aren't projectors expensive, too?

Jake> Really, I don't know. If you can hang on until tomorrow evening, though, I can take a couple of photos of the Samsung playing 360 stuff in the flesh, if that's any help.
 
 
Char Aina
21:19 / 15.01.07
yeah.
projectors are great, and i've had some great gaming on them, but you wouldnt usually want it to be your only option.

for one thing, you havent suffered a crass advert for cheaper car loans until you've suffered it six feet tall. for another, you need a room pretty much dedicated to the gaming to get much use out of it.
you can't turn all the ligths off if your partner/flatmate wants to read a magazine instead, for example.

i'd get one if you are rich enough to have both, or if you have a massive house.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
21:22 / 15.01.07
Don't worry about it, Randy. I'll probably just head over to Best Buy and look at them in person. Or maybe I'll just order the one from Amazon, because I'm sure it's great. The guy who owns my local bar brought his gigundo HDTV in from home, so I'll get to watch the Pats/Colts game properly, so, not as pressing an issue as it was before yesterday.

How wide is that Samsung from edge to edge? I may need a new TV stand if it's too wide, which is always a pain.
 
 
netbanshee
05:30 / 16.01.07
If you're looking for reference class monitors at a half-decent price I'd look at the Sony's XBR2 or XBR3 Bravia line (as ERD has mentioned) or an Sharp Aquos. You can get a 1080p set with at least 2 hdmi inputs (and all the rest) for somewhere between $1500-2000. The circuitry as well as the panel are good in both and they have a good amount of inputs for anything you might want to plug into them. The Sony is the better of the two for a price, but the Sharp is quite a good looker as well.

If you're looking for a comprehensive a/v forum during your research, I recommend hitting avsforum for some info. Insightful folk over there. After that, good deals can be found at places like dealnews.
 
 
■
11:37 / 16.01.07
One concern about HDTV is that the new generation of content (Blu-Ray and streamed/cable content) will give lots of HDTV people grief because of the way certified content protection is going to work and the fact that not all the "HDTV Ready" displays are properly certified. I can't pretend I really understand it, but there have been a few interesting Security Now! episodes which have touched on this.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:50 / 16.01.07
That's what HDMI or HDCP over DVI are for. As long as your set supports those, you're good to go where Blu-Ray or HD-DVD are concerned. But it still remains to be seen whether or not people buy into either of those formats in significant enough numbers for them to be a real concern - I mean, I'm still in the process of replacing a load of my old VHS collection with DVD and I'll be fucked if I'm going to start over from scratch with yet another new format this soon.
 
  
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