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Book Club : Don Quixote

 
 
Jack Vincennes
10:54 / 07.01.07
For the next three months or so, I will mostly be reading Cervantes' Don Quixote. Do you want to join me?

There are a few reasons why I think this would make an good book club book. It has been hailed as the first modern novel, which is always interesting; it is a book that is referenced quite frequently in other books, and it will be nice to have actually read it and get those references a bit better; there has been a new, so hot right now translation in the last five years. Furthermore, it is quite a long book at 940 pages in my copy, and I at least would like some encouragement when reading it.

I thought that reading it from mid-Jan / early Feb on would be good. I'm going to be reading the new Edith Grossmann translation, if you think it's important that we all have the same copy -I'm not sure that it is important, but I have read and heard very good things about this translation.

If you are not sure if you want to take part -or if you are sure and you want to know more about the book -here is a Radio 4 podcast on the novel. It's a YouSendIt link, good for 7 days / 100 downloads.
 
 
Persephone
17:34 / 07.01.07
Great, I'm looking forward to this. I've had this on my list forever to read, and I'm very excited about this new translation.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
18:36 / 07.01.07
Yep, me too. Are we going to start reading on a certain date, or start discussing on a certain date?
 
 
Jack Vincennes
20:20 / 07.01.07
Starting any time around now would be fine by me -we're all going to read at different speeds anyway. What do you think -start reading now and start discussion on a defined date (so we've got something to work to)? If that sounds okay, starting discussion a week tomorrow, i.e. the 15th? Any objections let me know -I've not started a book club thread before so don't really know what works!
 
 
Elettaria
21:41 / 07.01.07
Having run group book readings before, a particularly tricky bit is spoilers, and I reckon the length might give you trouble as well. Maybe start off with a short story or so by Cervantes, get discussion going, and then once you've got people talking move onto DQ? This was the busiest I've run, the format was different in a number of ways but it might give you some ideas, and it's also got links to other similar reading groups. The thing that really got the discussions moving was posting extracts from the novel regularly, in a suitably gimmicky fashion of course, but I can't see that working with the Barbelith format. We were going to do Clarissa but it's foundered for the time being. Good luck anyway, I may join you as I too have been meaning to read it for years.
 
 
Elettaria
22:37 / 07.01.07
Oh yes, and on the subject of translations/editions: I think it matters more when it's going to be difficult to navigate unless everyone has the same edition, and it's easier to synchronise editions if people haven't got copies yet. Since the chapters are short, it should be easy enough for people to cross-reference. I think this tends to be the sort of book which lots of people own and haven't got round to reading yet, so lots of people probably have a copy already.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
23:36 / 07.01.07
I read Don Quixote last year, but it was over a two-week training course I was running, so it was sort of a forced march in a hotel room with nothing else to do. So I'm up for a re-read.

I definitely don't have the Grossman translation, though.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
19:57 / 08.01.07
Elettaria - we've run a few informal 'Book Club' threads before, in which people pretty much post-as-they-read; perhaps the best one was the one on The Iliad (thread still exists here). As you can see, they're quite ad hoc affairs, which I suppose function as mutual encouragement asnd enthusiasm groups. Often threads with three or four interested participants are really good - there was one where Barry Auckland and I read Foucault's Pendulum in tandem which I enjoyed - not sure about anyone else...
 
 
Dusto
20:01 / 08.01.07
My docket is pretty full, but I started the Smollett translation of Don Quixote about a year ago, and what I read was excellent (better than any other translation I've seen), so there's a possibility that I'll get back to it in time for this book club, but as I said, I've got a lot of other stuff that I have to read first.
 
 
HCE
05:27 / 10.01.07
Will read at a snail's pace, but will read.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
20:34 / 10.01.07
Excellent! So that's :
Persephone
Kit-Kat Club
MattShepherd
gourami
maybe Elettaria
maybe Dusto.

Anyone else? (obviously it is okay to join in your own time as well)

Personally I don't mind spoilers very much, especially with something as seemingly episodic as DQ. If others do, maybe we should leave space with a reference to the part and chapter of the book it spoils.

Looking forward to this. See you here from Monday!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:14 / 10.01.07
Maybe me, but I haven't got my hands on the new translation - might order it, so will be a few days behind.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
21:14 / 16.01.07
I'm surprised by how angry it seems from the start -I had expected it to be a less pointed attack on the books of chivalry, I suppose, than it seems to be. In that way, the 'first modern novel' aspect is interesting -it's almost like reading a Nabokov book (I'm thinking Pale Fire specifically) written in the third person. We are told why Don Quixote thinks that things that are obviously not the case are the case (why the inn is a castle, and so forth) but at the same time we are told how clear it is to anyone who is not mad that Quixote is wrong. Like he's an unreliable narrator without the benefits conferred by first person narration... I'm explaining that really badly, so I'll leave it there.

Something I'm looking forward to watching develop is the storytelling angle - DQ wants to be a hero fabled in legend and song, but most of the stories about him are by people who have beaten him up. And Sancho Panza can't read. I would say that so far it seems to be the case that stories are better for the teller than the told about, but Panza doesn't seem to be having much luck in either.

Any thoughts, all? Anyone enjoying / not sure / specifically hating?
 
 
HCE
14:36 / 18.01.07
Interesting! I found myself thinking how funny it was, but I think we're talking about the same things, and you are responding to the anger underneath and I am responding to the snappy insults with which that anger is expressed. I have only read the prologue so far, but my notebook is already filling with great phrases I am going to use at the next opportunity.

I'm finding the footnotes in my edition useful as well (I have the Grossman translation) though I skipped the intro by Harold Bloom because I don't care to hear again how great he is and how he owns Shakespeare, and I'm sure he'd shoehorn it in.
 
 
Dusto
17:08 / 18.01.07
I read Bloom's introduction at some point, and he does indeed spend quite a bit of time talking about Hamlet instead of Don Quixote.
 
 
Persephone
14:10 / 22.01.07
Like he's an unreliable narrator without the benefits conferred by first person narration... I'm explaining that really badly, so I'll leave it there.

No, I think I'm getting that too. I'm at the end of Part Two of the First Part. I'm finding it so far to be very readable and likeable, but there's this ...distance that prevents me from loving it. I'm liking it more with Sancho Panza for some reason. I guess, you know, so far it seems to lack genuine emotion, which I am looking to Sancho Panza to provide.

This is probably a pointless comparison, and it just says more about what I want as a reader --but the Iliad, you know, the way the rhythm and the emotion of the language rips through you & then he just flips you over with the bit about Glaucon. But yes, I am aware, the Iliad, not primarily a satire.

I did really like in the prologue the bit with the horse:

B: Is it foolish to love? R: It's not too smart.
B: You're a philosopher. R: I just don't eat.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
15:29 / 27.01.07
Persephone: I'm finding it so far to be very readable and likeable, but there's this ...distance that prevents me from loving it. I'm liking it more with Sancho Panza for some reason. I guess, you know, so far it seems to lack genuine emotion, which I am looking to Sancho Panza to provide.

I'm certainly enjoying it a lot more with Sancho Panza - I'm enjoying the contrast between the two, that they're actually liking being together because Quixote is educated, and mad, and Panza is stupid (still seemingly convinced that Quixote can provide him with an insula to govern), but entirely sane. There's something engaging about the way the friendship is depicted; each seems to get something out of patronising or flattering the other, and there's no real explanation of what that is other than that they fundamentally like each other's company.

That makes it a lot easier to read, and I think tempers the author's cruelty to Don Quixote - the fact that they are both trying to get what they want from life but still want the other to stick around, even when what they see in every situation is radically different. Like in the following bit of dialogue - spoilers, of a kind, for page 153:

"How can I be mistaken in what I say, you doubting traitor?" said Don Quixote. "Tell me, do you not see that knight coming toward us, mounted on a dappled gray and wearing on his head a helmet of gold?"
"What I see and can make out," responded Sancho, "is just a man riding a donkey that's gray like mine, and wearing something shiny on his head."
"Well, that is the helmet of Mambrino," said Don Quixote.


gourami, I agree that we're talking about the same thing with the angry and the funny - I wasn't expecting Cervantes to lay into his own character with quite so much glee might be a better way of expressing what I meant. I also like Panza because he tempers that; at least someone is on Quixote's side, even if the author isn't.
 
 
Dusto
18:15 / 27.01.07
Nabokov, is his Lectures on Don Quixote, claims that everyone misreads the book. He thinks we're all wrong to see Don Quixote as a tragic character at all, and that the entire point of the book is for us to laugh at all of the horrible things that happen to him.

I haven't made any progress since this thread started, but last year I made it almost to the second volume in the Smollett translation. I'll try to catch up at some point, after I finish Against the Day.
 
 
HCE
04:44 / 18.02.07
I am still crawling along, but Sancho Panza has finally made it into the story. Not quite at the part about the helmet yet (which I keep wanting to call the helmet of Membrillo [quince paste] -- and that, together with DQ being a manchego [type of cheese] makes me a little hungry every time I pick up the book). I still haven't quite settled into the book. I am enjoying it, certainly, but am starting to see what Vincennes is talking about re: Cervantes laying into DQ. Well. We'll see how things progress.
 
 
HCE
19:29 / 22.02.07
Have made it as far as the beautiful shepherdess!
 
 
Jack Vincennes
21:11 / 22.02.07
That gets so much better! Are you enjoying it? I've not read this in a bit, but have some train journeys at the weekend and hope to be back with something more substantive soon.
 
  
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