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Underground > Comic Books >

Revolutionary Comics

02:56 / 23.12.06

In the past, there have been a range of titles that have held a revolutionary message in terms of changing the way the world works. "The Invisibles" and "V for Vendetta" are obvious examples, and i'd include stuff like "Transmetropolitan", "The Authority" and "Wildcats 3.0" among others.

But currently, there seems to be a dearth of this type of book. The only one I can think of is Rushkoff's "Testament". (There may be some other stuff out there that i've not seen; whose existance may deflate the point of this post, but whatever

)

Today's non-superhero books seem to take a very passive view, examining how fucked up society is through the eyes of equally fucked up people (superhero books are almost uniformly passive). No clear messages of empowerment. The idea of hope is prevalent in many stories, but its a very distant hope, something way, way off in the future, something not attainable by people today.

Most people would probably write this off as a reflection of the current mood of the world. However, due to the somewhat underground nature of the medium, comics are often ahead of the game in terms of trends, so I wouldn't use that as an excuse. In fact, i'd say the opposite, it is the perfect time to start talking about positive change to try and reverse the current world mood.

So, what do people think? Why are there so few revolutionary messages in the comics medium today?

Jake, Colossus of Clout

04:50 / 23.12.06

Wildcats 3.0? Really?

Our Lady Has Left the Building

06:50 / 23.12.06

I assume you're using 'passive' in a political sense, in that there's little passive about Wonder Woman snapping Lord's neck, or Wolverine's monthly killing of alottaninjas. Comics have always been 'passive'. 'The Authority', never really a positive blueprint of how to change a world if you have super-powers, is a reaction to the convuluted explanations for why the JLA wouldn't go in and topple Saddam for example, because it's okay to stop someone from killing a couple of dozen people with super-powers but not someone who has an entire nation under his thumb with old fashioned military might and intimidation.

There have never really been that many 'revolutionary', whatever you mean by that, titles, and I think your opening remarks show that there aren't that many of them. Comics have generally been a rather conservative medium, most of the characters in both the Marvel and DC Universe are all about upholding the status quo, Batman is about maintaining the moral and political order against the decay of crime for gosh sakes and Bruce Wayne is practically part o he Amrican establishment.

So I think you're working from a false premise. The titles you are looking for haven'tgone away, they were never really here to begin with.

11:52 / 23.12.06

i guess the problem is it's hard to spin out a revolutionary comic (or a comic with revolutionary politics) into an ongoing series. if you want to create an ongoing universe, it needs to be relatable - where fantastic universes tend to only last for a story arc. could you imagine the invisibles as an ongoing, 20 year series? i don't think it'd work.

comics do tend to reflect the times, too - transmet really tapped into pre-millenial angst and 90's hyperculture and the nascent anti-globalisation, well, attitude, as did the invisibles, whereas the current zeitgeist is more terrorised and militarised - hence the civil war series, etc.

23:26 / 23.12.06

"Seaguy" maybe?

The problem with the term "revolutionary" is that it presupposes some sort of new message... and there aren't any. Politicised... at least, deliberately, well, pretty much everything is to some degree from Ellis' "Down" to Millar's "Ultimates" and the newest Morrison, Johns, or Chuck Dixon project. Actually, if Morrison's Wildstorm stuff pans out - if the whole new Wildstorm line pans out - there may be argument that all of it is both politicised and somehow revolutionary, at least in a call-to-arms sort of way. But then, so's every new "Lady Death" oneshot.

02:19 / 24.12.06

Ok, I think I should refine what I meant by "revolutionary". I mean it in terms of the overall political attitude of particular books; that the world needs changing and that it is possible for people to affect that change. Having political content is one thing, but sending a message that we can change things for the better is another. For example, the "Ultimates" is definitely a political book, but it places the status quo as unchangable, and anyone who opposes it gets smacked down (eg Thor). Conversely, in "Transmetropolitan", Spider directly confronted the corruption in the system, which led to the people reasserting their political power.

I wouldn't expect anything revolutionary out of mainstream superhero comics. Obviously, they're extremely conservative in terms of the types of stories that they tell. However, your Vertigo/Wildstorm/Indie titles have at times displayed a "revolutionary" political attitude. Dr McStabby is right, this type of story is not conducive to long series'. But why not some miniseries' or graphic novels? Due to the small nature of the industry, (non-mainstream) comics creators can still say what they want to without too much interference. There's no practical reason why we're not seeing these stories.

Basically, what im asking is: Where is this decade's version of 'V for Vendetta'? I'd say that there is definitley a need for such a book, looking around at the world today. All it would take would be a little bit of daring and innovation.

PS: [b]Wildcats 3.0? Really?[/b]
Yes. It was about reforming humanity through technological invention. Spartan used the power of Halo Corporation to introduce items that would make existing problems obsolete (eg, car pollution was solved by making a car that ran on an everlasting battery). It wasnt exactly practical for us (he was using alien technology), but the idea was an important one.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:33 / 24.12.06

Testament? Really?

20:31 / 26.12.06

I'd suggest reading DMZ which came out at around the same time Testament did but seems a little more rooted in "reality." It's not quite setting out to improve the world with-in it's story but it is bringing up current events and examining them through interesting perspectives.

09:53 / 27.12.06

I think there is a void of interesting political activity at the moment, the arena of politics has fallen into right-of-centre economics from most parties and war (which seems to need some time before it can be critiqued whilst at the same time our information receivership has sped up, making yesterdays news become older quicker) - this in turn has led to lazy, consiratorial writing, and short hand political injections into comics - also coming at a time when grim-and-gritty seems to be getting a backlash. Cla$$war was almost a 'revolutionary' comic, but got caught up in lost artist, late book and indeed short hand political rhetoric, also it harped back to the consiratorial rich politics of the 70's and 80's. 2000ad rallied against a darker political age with more of an agnst fuelled anger at the establishment, unlike the seemingly laise-faire approach of generation x's or whatevers - "yeah, I'm against this, but only if there is a clever gimmick to attract my attention away from whatever".
Plus, maybe writers are generally more conservative nowadays?

Our Lady Has Left the Building

21:15 / 27.12.06

I would also dispute that reading of Transmetropolitan. Although Spider is popular with ver kids of the future it is very much him and the press corps that bring down The Smiler. Other than that university demo there's little overt sign that the population as a whole gives a monkeys and, as the last issue shows, everything is back the way it was, there's a new President, Callaghan is managing to avoid trial for his crimes, Spider is having people he doesn't like beat up just because he can, it's hard to pin down Spider's political position in this mad future-world but I would say it's somewhere around libertarian-conservative.

15:45 / 01.01.07

Legion of Superheroes. Runaways. Ex Machina. Invincible maybe?

I think what 2501 is calling "revolutionary" was actually "futurism" or "utopianism" or something--stories that posit a world that is glamorous, tragic, and perfectible--and he's broadly correct that that stuff has been moved out of vogue by "realistic" stories like, say, Bendis' Daredevil run. I don't think it's a reflection of the times that much, the times are not that different than they were ten years ago.

01:02 / 02.01.07

Plus, maybe writers are generally more conservative nowadays?

Heh, this just reminded me of something Grant Morrison said in an interview. He was saying that he wouldn't bother with another Invisibles until the current conservative period is over.

Anyways, I don't think writers are specifically to blame, but I do think we are in a very conservative period right now.

I think that during the period between the end of the cold war and 9/11 we saw the emergence of such 'revolutionary' cultural product because we had no defined 'enemy' but our own governments. Post-9/11 we have a new enemy, and at the same time we don't really want to be seen as being against the government, 'cause then maybe we're pro-terrorism, and nobody wants that.

Just a thought.

13:48 / 04.01.07

I think if you're looking for "revolutionary" comics, you may want to venture outside of the superhero genre (or the Marvel / DC / Image world). Wildcats 3.0?? wha??

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:58 / 04.01.07

So, chaated, what would be your criteria for a revolutionary comic, as defined by 2501 above or according to a definition of your own? Can we, for a start, throw out The Invisibles, for being big-two?

unheimlich manoeuvre

14:32 / 04.01.07

I second Mr Tricks' suggestion of DMZ.
Also possibly the Nightly News by Jonathan Hickman. Only on it's third issue, which I haven't read yet, so may be too soon to tell.

16:12 / 04.01.07

I was just throwing out that recommendation, not stating that it's the exclusive place to look. I wouldn't dream of excluding a genre, I was just saying that to look past it wouldn't hurt.

ONLY NICE THINGS

16:56 / 04.01.07

OK - so, having established that we can look both at superhero comics and comics that do not involve superheroes, what would be your idea of a revolutionary comic, and which comics do you feel are currently fulfilling the requirements of that idea?

12:53 / 05.01.07

A few that spring to mind:
The Incal (Moebius)
Akira
1984, the comic?

and, as mentioned above, Transmetropolitan.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

13:48 / 05.01.07

As it's the work with which I'm most familiar, what is revolutionary, in your opinion, about Transmetropolitan? I'm not pre-judging you as wrong, I'm interested to hear an opinion on this.

23:31 / 05.01.07

yeah, i have to say, while Transmetropolitan had some elements of revolutionary cultural politics (legalised drug taking, public nudity, wider acceptance of body art/sexuality/etc) the political system was still the same. Spider was really working outside the law (sort of) to reinstate the status quo - the climax was US government rediscovering its role and doing what it was supposed to do. so, not really revolutionary politics there....

04:29 / 12.01.07

In a completely different sense, Eddie Campbell's Fate of the Artist is certainly revolutionary, and the work has a rousting urgency to it, but even then the self is asked to be analyzed much more than the action, so it still falls into the passive category. Still, a more detached view of art from the creator and appreciator certainly seems incredibly revolutionary now.

But I think 2501 is asking more for works that wail on you with their quality and idiosyncracies that are as well advertised and promoted as Watchmen and the Invisibles were, and are after their release. That won't be the case for mainstream superhero comics (well, the quality part at least) for awhile for a while, but until then Kevin Huizenga and David B. seem suitable substitues.

Aha! I am Klarion

04:50 / 12.01.07

But wasn't Spider based off of Hunter S. Thompson who while being something of radical was never revolutionary except in regards of "getting the government to do what their suppose to do."

07:54 / 12.01.07

"Plus, maybe writers are generally more conservative nowadays?"

I've been thinking this*. Alternatively, too cynical to think they can make something as idealistic as revolution play.

Brian Wood's always been somewhat political in the demimainstream, of course. And The Nightly News is REALLY FUCKING ANGRY as well as being an enormously beautiful design object.

*As much as I've liked a good chunk of BKV's material, I previously thought he was holding back and looked forward to the day he'd actually cut loose. I've since decided that I was wrong: He's not holding back. This is as far as he wants to go.