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'I Love Mark Millar' - A thread about interesting crypto-fascism in the world of comics.

  
  

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Alex's Grandma
15:27 / 22.12.06
And then there's what apparently repeatedly happened to the Sixties Doctor from 'The Authority,' while he was in prison that time.

I'm not saying that our man doesn't have various issues - it's clear enough that in Millarworld, being physically addressed in *that* way is a fate worse than death, but ... oh I don't know, it doesn't seem like a major part of his work, really. It's just that everyone always remembers the bad things, I suppose.

Damnit.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
19:03 / 22.12.06
I've not read Chosen, but I believe the protagonist gets raped/abused in that as well.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:02 / 22.12.06
It's interesting, because in his Swamp Thing days, the obsession was with pregnant women and/or the pregnancy going wrong, then in The Authority Ms Hawksmoor is pregnant while Jack can't have children because of his having sex with aliens. I would continue but that would involve inventing things. So stuff that in your arc pipe and smoke it.
 
 
The Falcon
08:09 / 23.12.06
I've not read Chosen, but I believe the protagonist gets raped/abused in that as well.

Yes, with the nine cocks of Satan. (What's conceivably worse than being anally abused with one penis? You have your answer.) He really is a modern-day Dante Aligheri, Mark.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
14:29 / 23.12.06
Well at least red son was better than I had anticipated. pacey, concise, neat, dramatic. no arse banditry either. (as far as I remember anyway)

and he did a prison drama in crisis (UK comic), about 1991-ish, that was quite good in parts though I missed its conclusion. (there was bum-poking in this, but fair cop for a prison drama, eh?)

and as I've said elsewhere, Ultimates got off to a great start, the first 6 issues or so, then descended into utter banality as the basic idea - doing a watchmen on the Avengers - ran out of steam. (let's face it, it's a one-note idea that doesn't require much exploration).

first few swampys with gm were suitably horrific - in a psychological sense. there's quality in there, I believe.

messiah was shite - good art in first issue tho - daniel vallely (?) - the same artist did great cut up stuff with GM's bible John too.

enjoyed his wee 2 pager on the G8 summit for the sunday herald too; a quietly reflective, thoughtful piece, great art by sean phillips n all.

oh and he did this great ghost horror story thing for 2000AD that had amazing art by D'Antiquis and drew upon such diverse references as the Fabian society and 'Die Hard' with surpisingly engaging results. can't remember what it was called. Silo?

and out of sheer childishness, simply because I know where he's from, what kind of local context he's had to deal with growing up, we went to the same comic shop as teenagers, all that kind of crap - I can't bring myself to dismiss him.

Yes, I know that's a weakness when it comes to criticism. I suppose I just want him to succeed (and hopefully come good)

but I'd add that I've been shocked by his domination of marvel for the past 6 years.

I naively retain the beleif that its the best of talent that is most richly rewarded.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
14:58 / 23.12.06
6 years?
 
 
Sylvia
17:22 / 23.12.06
Well here I was about to blunder in with my opinions when I see most of them laid out clearly and thoughtfully by Boboss. Damn you Boboss!

I'll still relate my first experience with Millar, the first trade of the Ultimates, which left me cringing in embarrassment for comics. It wasn't the characterization, similar as it was between almost all the players which is particularly bad in an ensemble cast. It wasn't the glossy ultra-violence, which wasn't terribly shocking anyhow (nor do I think it was really meant to be). It was the satire. No, wait, I mean 'satire'. There we go, that's nice and bitter

Millar's satire is AWFUL. It painfully, obviously thinks it's five times more clever than it really is. (Even the juvenille jokes don't have that rough "Okay I would have laughed at that when I was 12 and I realize it" charm you need to get away with them). It's a perfect example of the kind of comedic commentary that the sharper right-wing pundits should use to go "This is what the left-wing thinks is high-satire of the right? I've seen sharper political jabs in junior-high school student papers".

I mean even the G8 summit story, which I saw later and quite liked, had some of that bull-in-a-china-shop flavour, overstretching itself to make sure readers got The Point. Which leads me to believe that Millar is either severely limited in his craftsmanship or can't get out of the habit of talking down to his audience. Either way it's a huge turn-off. I have't seen any indications that Millar's trying to change this in his writing which leaves me fairly uninterested in it aside from a trainwreck sort of way.

A very stupid joke built on bumsex. Bumsex being something that Millar likes to get into his comics a whole lot.

One day Ennis and Millar will tell each other how they REALLY feel and we can finally get rid of some of this fucking sexual tension in the comic industry.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
17:26 / 23.12.06
Yawn you pretty much nailed all the stuff Millar's done that I've enjoyed, but recently I've found his flaws as a writer so aggravating I won't buy his comics. It's always just a series of self-consciously 'cool' moments intermingled with jaw-dropping plot holes and cop out endings. With everyone talking like some steroid-pumped version of Dawson's Creek. Can't be arsed.
And it's this juvenile desire to always create the 'ultimate' (no pun intended) story for whichever character he's writing. His Wolverine run ia a perfect case in point. A few nice OTT issues at the beginning, helped immeasurably by John Romita Jr's ace artwork, before descending into an escalating non-stop absurdity with virtually no story momentum or dramatic punch. I mean it's fucking Wolverine - I'm not expecting Joyce, but just a teensy bit of characterisation or emotional depth wouldn't go amiss.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
18:47 / 23.12.06
You are right of course Macca - i suppose I just don't care enough about Millar's writing to get really pissed off about it.

I never thought he was a great talent so it's not a disappointment to see him produce poor quality work. rather, when he does something good, it's a pleasant surprise.

gm on the other hand, i expect GM to be at the top of his game ALL THE FUCKING TIME - which is, of course, totally unreasonable of me.

tho it does explain why i feel so let down when his work, IMO, doesn't hit the right notes.

Also, I thought I should highlight stuff by Millar I've enjoyed, purely for da record.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
19:03 / 23.12.06
our lady - marvel-domination bean with ultimates kicking off, whenever the fuck that was. perhaps 2001/02?
 
 
DavidXBrunt
20:30 / 23.12.06
Yawn - Silo. Wears it references on it's sleeve to the point of being derivative but dtill different from everything else being printed in the comic at the time which counts for something.

Blaming Tharg for Marks style and, being kind, tropes and themes seems unfair. He's stated for the record he never rated it and only ever saw it as a platform to get noticed by the yanks.

His Superman Adventures scripts are masterpieces of the form. Good, fun, adventures that surprise. His swan song was a 22 tales from Metropolis affair with a different story told on each page. Worth reading. Heck, worth reprinting should there ever be a Greatest Superman Stories Ever Told volume 2.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
20:33 / 23.12.06
Forgot those - they are actually rather ace.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
21:00 / 23.12.06
Sylvia- What do you consider to be the satire or 'satire' of the first series of Ultimates? It reads fairly straight to me. Are you referring to the characterisation of Captain American as conservative? I wouldn't say all his characters are the same, take Thor compared to Steve or Tony or Bruce, compare the Ultimates to the X-Men, Janet is not Storm, even Wolverine is not Fury.
 
 
Sylvia
21:46 / 23.12.06
Our Lady: Sylvia- What do you consider to be the satire or 'satire' of the first series of Ultimates? It reads fairly straight to me. Are you referring to the characterisation of Captain American as conservative?

Digging deep into the murky waters of my memory for specifics...the whole set-up of the Avengers as government mandated superhero team and the behaviour of them and their keepers had a strong wiff of satire to me. I don't mean that the entire point of the series is a riff on government politics, but there were times when Millar took a potshot at something (that meeting with Bush, for example) that was just so blatant and self-congradulating it made me want howl "YES, we GET IT" at the book.

It may be the way Millar writes people - I thought some of the characters' lines must be some cheeky attempted irony or metacommentary because otherwise Millar was a far worse writer than I believed.

For example, not a political point but there was that line where Pym is getting 'revenge' for Janet being kissed by Captain America and (rough paraphrase) the man who can grow to the height of stories tells his wife "You shouldn't have made me feel small, Janet. You shouldn't have made me feel so SMALL."

For a high emotional climax for the couple it struck me as such a condescendingly overplayed moment ("Does the reader get it? Well they're not as smart as I am so I'll lay it on thick!") no matter what age or audience you're aiming for.

To me the Ultimates seemed filled with that kind of writing. If Millar isn't being condescending and really, naturally churns out lines like that then I just don't think he's good at dialogue. If he's doing it with a self-aware purpose, I'll put up with a lot of stuff but spelling things out in giant neon underlighting because the author assumes his work is too precious for a reader to get is not one of them.

I wouldn't say all his characters are the same, take Thor compared to Steve or Tony or Bruce, compare the Ultimates to the X-Men, Janet is not Storm, even Wolverine is not Fury.

It's mostly the dialogue. Hoenstly, it all started to sound the same to me no matter whose mouth it was coming out of. I don't mean in terms of political position or personal interests but in terms of structure, style and word choice. There's nothing very distinctive between characters and it really started to grate on my nerves.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
02:32 / 28.12.06
It may be the way Millar writes people - I thought some of the characters' lines must be some cheeky attempted irony or metacommentary because otherwise Millar was a far worse writer than I believed.

Happens a lot ... and one of the main reasons I soured on Ultimates. Eventually. Other than the Hitch beauty bits. He kept riffing on Authority stuff there, too, all the talk of fight enhancements and nano-in-the-brain and such came off as awkward and meta and sort of made the Ultimates boring for me...they all become super-soldiers. Bleh. I liked them better when there was *diversity* of backgrounds, disparate and awkward as they might be.

The Ultimates casting scene ... that cloying ironical manner and all of them sounded so...forced. Fury, especially, seemed oddly out of character for the sake of a stupid joke that went on too long...
 
 
CameronStewart
13:07 / 28.12.06
>>>His Superman Adventures scripts are masterpieces of the form. Good, fun, adventures that surprise. His swan song was a 22 tales from Metropolis affair with a different story told on each page.<<<

I drew two of those....a loooong time ago...
 
  

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