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Finding teachers and other such questions

03:22 / 20.12.06

does anyone have advice for finding a teacher or a regimen to get yourself started on the basic practices (astral, sigils, etc.)? I've worked predominantly by myself, and I've never bothered to create my own kind of system. I've only really dabbled, I suppose. Should someone in my position look for some kind of teacher (online or otherwise) or simply just attempt to coalesce information into some kind of personal, self-designed system? I feel that a teacher is pedagogically appropriate for this type of attempt, but I don't know where to even begin to find one.

07:04 / 20.12.06

Well, I don't know about others, but online teachers aren't much more helpful to me than learning from a group like these forums. When I have had teachers, I've either been part of an in-person class, or had an in-person one-on-one relationship.

--Ember--

08:29 / 20.12.06

There are no "basic practices". What is it that you want to accomplish? Work out what you want to do, and then start doing it. Eventually, the magic will take over and start working you. The right teachers will present themselves at the right time, probably in a variety of guises. The most important thing is trying to get a sense of what your magic is. What sort of stuff resonates the most with you? Find the end of that thread and then follow it into whatever undiscovered territories of magic that it might lead you.

09:40 / 20.12.06

Hi,

I guess it depends on the way you prefer to learn. If you respond better to guidance and being expected to show results to another person then you can always give the on-line method a try. I know that IOT and OTO do some training this way. However you should be aware that you will be expected to take on board their belief systems. Another alternative, if you are just wanting to train up in techniques is to join your local coven of witches if you have one nearby.

You can take heart that most magicians work solo and that is the way it has been for centuries.

Is it that you would like to work as part of a group, for a change? It is true that you can give your magic some focus that way, but perhaps there is a deeper underlying problem about where your magic is going? It could be what the OTO might call the problem of finding your True Will?

Regards,

12:34 / 20.12.06

You can take heart that most magicians work solo and that is the way it has been for centuries.

sorry have to call bullshit on that. You might float many modern folk elect to work solo, or some historical magicians worked solo, but most for centuries? What about the non Western traditions that contain very specific group dynamics? Or what about the Western trads that require it?

In fact my perception is quite the opposite, I'd say working/serving in the context of a community is much more historically common than solo.

16:41 / 20.12.06

Andrue, I'd advise reading around the subject a bit more and practicing what you already do a bit more, then when you have a clearer idea of where you want to go you can worry about finding a guide or mentor.
My impression is that you are just starting out with this stuff, if so I think it might be too early to need a teacher.

Having said that, I offer Tarot lessons at competitive prices. Is that the sort of thing you were thinking? Or a magic guru to give you a grounding in all the basic techniques of magic (whatever they are)?

01:39 / 21.12.06

I suppose I wasn't even vaguely specific as to what I was asking. It was just kind of an off-the-cuff post, and basically coming from a general confusion and lack of focus. Really what I'm thinking is that I've got a generally good grasp on divination in any form (I tend to be very good at it, but I've mostly just done cartomancy and I Ching), and have had a good amount of practice with others in a psi-style paradigm, but I'm looking to work more in astral projection, and generally ceasing to stagnate. I've always had trouble with astral projection, and that's really the area I'm looking to have help in. I don't know if there's anything I can do except just read how people do it and then try and do it that way, but I suppose that's where I'm looking for guidance.

07:44 / 21.12.06

've always had trouble with astral projection, and that's really the area I'm looking to have help in

TBH, I would write down what your ideas and preconceptions are about astral projection, and again get a clear sense of what it is you wish to achieve. Then I would look for specific evidence that what you wish to happen can happen, does happen and is achieveable. Then begin a series of experiments, but using your own experience as the gold standard of evidence. If what you are anticipating happening does not happen, possibly your preconceptions need revision? This is the real problem of working alone and from books, in that you can erect a bullshit fantasy and then beat yourself up when reality your experience doesn't occur!

I know this because I did I caused myself a lot of problems and strain by making unrealistic demands on myself.

08:42 / 21.12.06

If you respond better to guidance and being expected to show results to another person then you can always give the on-line method a try. ... if you are just wanting to train up in techniques is to join your local coven of witches

Wait, I'm confused - how will an online group be in a better position to observe and verify your results than a local coven? And why would they care more than the witches?

There are no "basic practices".

I don't entirely agree with that. It's true that each style has it's own basics, but there is a fair amount of overlap between them. I do think somewhat common (if not Universal) basics exist. For example, centering, grounding, shielding, and setting space are all pretty common things to do if you look at them as Awareness of Self, Awareness of and Connection to Space, Protection of Self, and Creation/Dedication of Sacred/Working Area, respectively.

I've always had trouble with astral projection
If what you are anticipating happening does not happen, possibly your preconceptions need revision?

I have to agree with that. I have terrible difficulty with what I consider to be "Astral Projection" but never had much difficulty at all with shamanic-style Journey, beginning with guided meditation. Yet other folks I know consider them to be the same thing. I consider them related, but different degrees on the spectrum, where Astral Projection is, from the descriptions I was given as a child, a more absoloute and more dangerous sepparation of body and spirit. Perhaps it's fear, or perhaps it's unrealistic expectations, or perhaps I'm just not the right kind of talented, but deliberate Astral Projection eludes me, and Journey work is something I can do quite well much of the time.

So you may need to adjust your expectations, or you may need to change your context.

--Ember--

07:04 / 22.12.06

solo working

I don't think it's bullshit, and yes, I was thinking specifically of the Western magicians through the centuries. If you take out the Rosicrucians for whom there is little evidence of any actual organisation until 20th Century, then what other magical groups can you think of before the likes of the Golden Dawn, in Europe or the US?

EmberLeo - Hi, I'm not suggesting a coven would be in a worse position than an on-line tutor, in fact the opposite. Why did you think that?

On astral pojection I can heartily recommend Jan Fries book Helrunar for a no bullshit approach to what it astral projection and how to do it.

07:33 / 22.12.06

EmberLeo - Hi, I'm not suggesting a coven would be in a worse position than an on-line tutor, in fact the opposite. Why did you think that?

I quoted the bits that gave me that impression:

If you respond better to guidance and being expected to show results to another person then you can always give the on-line method a try.

Which I read as "On-line methods provide guidance and an expectation of results."

if you are just wanting to train up in techniques is to join your local coven of witches

Which I read as "As opposed to Covens, who will only train you in techniques."

But it seemed a strange thing, so I wasn't sure I read it right - hence the request for clarification

what other magical groups can you think of before the likes of the Golden Dawn, in Europe or the US?

This isn't my area of expertise, but it seems to me that there would be all kinds of ways to be somewhere between solo and involved in a formal group like the Golden Dawn?

--Ember--

08:23 / 26.12.06

Hi again!

On working solo and group workings down the centuries (in the West), perhaps I should reveal what made me have this opinion.

I don't know if anyone listens to the Thelema Coast to Coast podcasts but recently there was an interview with the magician/author Stephen Skinner on his new book of correspondences. He is a well-reasearched man (edited an excellent tome of Agrippa's 3 books of occult philosophy). He made this point too as magic has been punishable by at best banishment at worst torture and death so it has pressured magicians to work solo for protection. Also it makes putting ads in shop windows dangerous.

In Maya Deren's work on Voudon - The Divine Horsemen; she makes the point that in Haiti the 'sorcerer' is considered with suspicion as he has secrets apart from the community. As there is so little personal privacy anyone who has secrets is considered suspect.

This does not apply to the houngan or mambo priest or priestess who also works magic.

11:42 / 27.12.06

That last bit brings up the point that it rather depends on how you define "magic", whether it's a solo practice or not.

--Ember--