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Darfur

21:42 / 19.12.06

Hi, I'm new to the board and, I'm ashamed to say it, I'm a latecomer to action about the genocide in Darfur. I have, however, been giving some thought to the lack of involvement by the U.S. and the E.U. in Darfur, and a thought occured to me about a way to force the hands on the levers of power. Specifically, what are the prospects of students from elite American, Canadian, and European universities going to Darfur to act as human shields between the people of Darfur and the militias? I realize that huge logistical problems would be involved in getting large numbers of westerners into a position where they could do some good, but it strikes me that a few thousand young westerners in harm's way could encourage the governments of the West to deploy peace-keeping -- or peace-making -- forces.

Am I nuts?

22:18 / 19.12.06

Well, 'nuts' is one way of looking at it.

Let's put it this way, some human shield activists from 'Western' nations, such as Tom Hurndall have been shot and killed in Israel. Whatever else you can say about Israel and its defense policies, it is a country with some standing as a liberal democracy. To put it mildly, Sudan is not a democracy.

There are no easy answers to the ongoing genocide in Darfur.

23:14 / 19.12.06

Oh, fair enough, and I didn't mean to suggest that there are, but it just strikes me that, shy of some serious reason for western nations to intervene -- and a bunch of their young best and brightest being in harm's way strikes me as such a reason -- our governments will continue to do nothing.

06:28 / 20.12.06

Let's put it this way, some human shield activists from 'Western' nations, such as Tom Hurndall have been shot and killed in Israel.

Don't forget Rachel Corrie.

06:41 / 20.12.06

I didn't forget her, but she was killed by a bulldozer rather than being shot by a sniper.

11:11 / 20.12.06

I didn't forget her, but she was killed by a bulldozer rather than being shot by a sniper.

Oh, well, that's clearly OK then. =)

My point was that she was a Westerner who thought that by sticking her body in between the oppressor and the oppressed she might protect the latter from the former, and paid for that belief dearly.

And, as you said, this was all in a country which, for all its many faults, is a functioning democracy. If you live outside the Occupied Territories and/or you're Jewish, it is, anyway.

It's also worth noting that the Darfur situation is tied in unfortunate ways to the Iraq situation. The Sudanese government and its supporters have basically made the case that the Darfur situation is basically a distraction which the Christian powers of the West are using as a pretense under which they can justify invading yet another Muslim country. The problem with trying to get the Western powers to intervene in Darfur is that we've completely destroyed any credibility we once may have had and tarnished our reputation, which makes any humanitarian intervention operation quite a bit more difficult. With that sort of tension in the air, I'm not sure a bunch of privileged college students interfering in local affairs would be well-received, and if things went poorly they would be essentially defenseless in a hostile situation.

Happy Dave Has Left

11:20 / 20.12.06

To be frank, the Janjaweed militias won't give a toss about the colour of your skin, or whether you were there to protect anybody. They'd just shoot you. Or make you walk ahead of them in minefields. This isn't a uniformed army advancing across the battlefield in ordered phalanxes - it's a bunch of guys high on qat on camels with RPGs and AKs. They wouldn't stop for you, or anyone, really.

There are young British and American people standing in between warring factions at the moment. They're the military, and they get paid not a whole lot to try and fix a problem created largely by two men who have never worn a uniform in their lives. And to be frank, there aren't enough of them to go to Darfur as well. Sudan is huge, and has been more or less continously at war for thirty years. If you think Iraq and Afghanistan are quagmires, Sudan would be a whole other hideous mess.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

13:05 / 20.12.06

That's the thing; it's a very different situation to the Occupied Territories. OK, so the IDF do sometimes kill Westerners, but it's a massive PR headache for them when it happens. As Dave has pointed out, the Janjaweed wouldn't give a fuck. There's nothing to stop them killing you without a second thought- not only would the guy behind the gun not get punished, he wouldn't even get tried.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

22:27 / 20.12.06

Of course the militia wouldn't hesitate to put someone down, be they a western university student or some poor schmuck from Darfur, but the idea behind Lyons' question here is wether or not students in the line of fire would mobilize europe and america. And, as others have already said, it hasn't worked in other areas. With higher numbers of "protesters", though, who knows what would happen. Probably an enormous tragedy. Maybe afterwards the big guys would get on the ball.

But this, of course, could never happen against the wishes of europe and america. You simply could not get a sizable number of university students (even willing university students) into Darfur with europe and america trying to keep them out.

01:46 / 21.12.06

As others have said, it would most likely end up as an unfortunate suicide mission.

It's also worth noting that the Darfur situation is tied in unfortunate ways to the Iraq situation. The Sudanese government and its supporters have basically made the case that the Darfur situation is basically a distraction which the Christian powers of the West are using as a pretense under which they can justify invading yet another Muslim country. The problem with trying to get the Western powers to intervene in Darfur is that we've completely destroyed any credibility we once may have had and tarnished our reputation, which makes any humanitarian intervention operation quite a bit more difficult.

While Sudan may be making that claim, I highly doubt that anyone is buying it. Countries know what's going on in Darfur and the issue of Western credibility is not what keeps nations from intervening. Additionally, even if the U.S. has credibility issues as a result of its actions in Iraq those issues shouldn't extend to nations such as France and Germany who vigorously opposed the invasion.

02:11 / 21.12.06

...Although France has a worse history of action in Africa than the U.S. does. And Germany is Germany.

Still, I would think that these things wouldn't matter to most countries around the world (possible exceptions would be China and Sudan). The African Union is involved there as we type so there may not be a huge uproar from surrounding African countries.